Curse

Shut Your Mouth · Apr 23, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Many people want the quest to be repeatable, some (like me) don't want it to be.. I think three repeats with increasing difficulty in each would be fine.

I'll type up a description of the quest.

Well if the quest got progressively harded then you would have to have three quests. Unless you found a way to make it easy for some party members and hard for others.

i.e. This is my first time through, and the rest of the group is on their third time. Would I have to fight the harder fight or would they all fight the easier one?

Sientir · Apr 23, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

/not signed for repeatable. However if you want a one handed weapon then he should be able to make off hands as well but will only offer to make one off hand if you make a one handed weapon. So he won't offer the option for an off hand if you had a two handed weapon made.

Your talking a truely unique weapon with max mods, bonuses and damage with no doubt 8 as the requirement. A max weapon that would be earned through one of the most difficult quests in the game. One should be enough.

What about people who don't run the same build all the time? For example, with my warrior, I don't always use axe or sword or hammer, I mix it up. Why should I be able to only get one type of weapon?

Overall, though, I like the idea of a weaponsmith. /signed

Since I presume these items would be automatically customized, it isn't like a person could just simply make them and sell them anyway. I have a feeling the people that would be most against this are the traders who make their money buying low and selling high. Just remember, not everyone is going to want to do this. Or, rather, be able to. I would like such a long quest to be repeatable, personally.

Rayea · Apr 23, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

so, just make the items unable to be sold at all....no drop, no trade, only trashable.

that way, even if the quest was repeatable times 100, the item would only be of use to the character that made it....
*although, i would sugest that if this type of quest/crafter was implemented, that they allow a 5 slot per character >RARE wep store, ether questable or buyable...not conected to main stash, character based, not account based*

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 23, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

As long as the weapons are customized then they are useless to anyone except the character it is customized for. So no doing the quest just to make money off the items forged. They would also be unsalvageable just like the green weapons. Since they do allow 4 weapon sets, maybe doing it up to 4 times wouldn't hurt any.

Trylo · Apr 23, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Why not just add totally new skins for the quest?

Nevin · Apr 23, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

Why not just add totally new skins for the quest?

It'd be hard to go in detail about each one looks like.. In another thread I suggested something along these lines in which you'd have the choice of your item looking Good -> Neutral -> Evil.

Good would be heaven-ish be decorated with wings etc etc..
Neutral would be just a generic look...
Evil would be black and spiked etc etc..

But that doesn't really fall into this Master Smith idea, anyways I'm still not sure on what to do with the quest. How many times you can do it, and the limit on how many items you can forge in one sitting.

R A C · Apr 23, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

/signed
my opinions: undecided about repeatability. Regardless, only 1 2-handed item or 1 1-handed +1 off-hand item per trip.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Apr 23, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Yes, I can live with limited items forged per trip, but please let us do the quest as many times as we want.

/kneel
/beg

Nevin can add this to the original post if he likes it.
As for "quest description", a suggested one would be:

The Master Smith's forging equipments have been stolen by mobs, the party of heroes must recover the Master Smith's forging equipments before he can forge anything for them.

Forging equipments: Anvil, Hammer, Tongs, etc

The more equipments to recover, the harder the quest?
Or simply more time consuming?
It could be made even more time consuming for the party by spilting up the forging equipments in different directions.

Discuss.

EDIT:
By implementing such a "recover forging equipment quest", it could easily be "repeatable", in terms of "game lore".

Why?
Imagine the second time you go and visit the Master Smith, then he tells you:

"Oh Grenth be damned! I lost my forging equipments AGAIN! Blasted <instert mob name here> ransacked my place yesterday and went off with my stuff."
"You'll need to recover my stuff again if you want me to forge anything for you again."
(repeatable quest)

"Of course, I won't work for free."
(gold and materials required)

"And as usual, I need to rest after I've forged something. Age is catching up on me."
(limited to one item forged per visit per player)

The last sentences meant that the Master Smith will only forge one time for each player per visit.

To make the quest "harder", or just simply "time consuming", I suggest:

Anvil = item held by both hands, i.e: Urns, Books, Berry Basket, Gear etc

In fact, make all items "carryables".
But, for the Anvil, the character carrying the Anvil will have its movement speed slowed by 75%.
If a Warrior is carrying it, then its movement speed will slowed by 25% instead of 75%.

To make it even harder, or simply more time consuming:
The party will be constantly ambushed by mob raiding parties when they are carrying the item back to the Master Smith. Mobs will attempt to steal back the item if the item is dropped.

Suggested class combo for "mob raiding parties" as well as the "item defender mob parties":
- Anti Caster mesmers and necros
- Anti Warrior mesmers and necros
- degen mesmers and necros
- shields up, watchyourself, iway warriors
- interrupting rangers
- healers, smiters, protectors
- eles, wards, spikes, water slow, etc

No need for the "Finger of Chaos" thingie in here.
Throw in all the above mentioned in a big group, I'll like to see how a party of 8 tackle that.

EDIT:
Oh, Nevin, I just read your quests.
Them be good.

But I would like a repeatable quest too.
So, give this one some thought, ya?

Cheers.

unholy guardian · Apr 24, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

/signed

i want uber daggars

jk, i think it be really cool though, be something fun to do with your guild to get some nice weapons

BahamutKaiser · Apr 24, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

This almost sounds good, then we bring in the Skill > Time played, and I realize this is severly limited to only the best, endering players.

If you compare Droknars armor selection with 15K armor selections you have 1 difference, look. That is the way uber hard ventures/mega costs/mass material should impress. There shouldn't be a giant void that gives only the hardend players in the game superior customized weapons, everyone should be able to get these within reasonable venture and cost.

If we had common weapon customizers which could sell us weapons with any damage or skill effect mod, and a trader which had every mod available, then all players would have fair access to perfected weapons. At the very least, there should be weapon mod sellers, leaving the look of the weapon and the damage/skill modifier open to the weapons you can find. If, and only if, we already had reasonable options for everyone (not just advanced groups of well connected players), then something like an uber weapon customizer would be acceptable. And the only unique service he should provide is a Special Looking weapon, which is attractive and completely unique "looking".

This is no different then suggesting that more powerful armor only be obtainable through some over the top, very secluded, and certain to be unreachable by some, quest. You can't seclude significant advantages to the elite players, it has to be available to everyone in a reasonable manner.

No matter how much you enjoy this idea, it is a very, very bad one, it betrays one of the most foundational halmarks of this game, good weapon customization and modification should be universally available, not secluded in a location which only elite players with great teammates can obtain. The concept of having a Smith that can make a weapon to your exact specification is great, putting him in a location where only elite players will reach him, unacceptable.

Nevin · Apr 24, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I do like the idea of a bonus quest.. But as of now I think it'd make things a lot easier if you could just return to him and purchase weapons.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 24, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

This is no different then suggesting that more powerful armor only be obtainable through some over the top, very secluded, and certain to be unreachable by some, quest

Fissure of Woe Armor.
Must be ascended and do multiple quests in one of the most difficult areas of the game just for the chance of doing the quest that gives you the armor smith. Then you must shuffle out alot to buy it. Only difference is looks.

OP's Suggestion (From what I have read)
Player given named weapons and offhands that are customized to that specific character and can not be sold (unless selling to the merchant for like 300g or something), salvaged, remoded or used by any other character. The quest would be out of the way like those that lead to the green items but no too out of the way like the FoW armor. The quest would be as difficult as those found in the FoW (could even be multistaged like Tombs) and my even require ascention (to aquire the quest) and infusion (to fight mursaat).

Now you can get gold weapons at almost any time that don't have to be customized and can be sold. Gold weapons and off hands with max stats just like the ones you get from the op's suggestion but doesn't have the unique name.

Sounds like a nice balanced idea to me.

BahamutKaiser · Apr 24, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

No, a selection of droped max mod weapons and being able to pick the best or most useful mods for your build are very different. Like picking a damage mod which will activate when your enchanted or have more the 50% health knowing that your build stresses that status is an advantage.

I admit that there are advantages in this game to those who can get further and farm harder areas, and that is already unbalanced. An amount of PvE content makes the game fun, but it does give advanced farmers better weapon selection, and then they try to swindle rediculous prices for them as well. Having a weapon mod option and Weapon creation option should be universally accessible at a reasonable location, not an extreme one. The fact is that better players don't need to have better weapons then everyone else. And the OP is obviously suggesting a quest and location that is as far out of the way and hard to undertake as possible, this shouldn't be the only path to getting effective weapons.

Ninetail Trickster · Apr 24, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

/signed
-eyes the naysayers-
-opens mouth; raises finger-
-closes mouth-
-tries again-
...bloody heck. >_<

Anyway. I love the idea; it lets you get an awesome weapon, it is based entirely around skill- it's probably one of the best things in Sardelac. Right up with the RP District petition.
Possible solution to counter-act some of the troubles and make it entirely about skill and pride:
Don't make it worth it. Have the Mastersmith's requirements fluctuate in accordance to approximate market costs for the same items, crossed and checked against the same mod.
Each feature's requirement would then be 1.2~5 times the cost of the market price for the same thing. For example:
Crystalline requirement item- Ectoplasm
Max-Damage Crystalline- Approx 3 Ecto average.
Number of Ectoplasms Required by Mastersmith for Crystalline Skin- 4
(Ignore the numbers and item correlation; first material/skin combo that came to mind)

Can you farm the same thing?
Yes.
Is an up-and coming PVP hero going to want to waste his time farming for his mods or the gold to buy 'em?
Nope.

Does a farmed sword have you up at 3am eating cold pizza while you and your guildies try the mission to get it a fifth time?
Nope.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Apr 24, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

BahamutKaiser does have a valid point regarding this issue.

Ok, I got a solution:

Let there be two "Master Smiths", two dwarven "brothers".
Elder brother - vanity skins, lives in remote mountain area, described by Nevin
Younger brother - normal skins, lives in Droknar's Forge

Both are able to craft:
- "clean" weapons with an inherent mod of the player's choice.
i.e 15>50, 20<50, 15 while enchanted, stance, 15 vs hexed, 20 while hexed
- various weapon upgrades
- various off-hand focus items
- staves with inherent quick recovery mods of the player's choice
- shields with interent mods, including quick recovery mods of the player's choice
- all items crafted are "customized" to the player character who ordered the items to be crafted

Elder brother:
- able to "personal customize" weapon or off-hand item with own name

Younger brother:
- no "personal customization", only +20% damage "basic customization"

There we go, issue resolved.
Discuss.

pappayaponta · Apr 24, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

/M-M-M-Multi Zigned!

Faboulus idea, it's also good that it is hard and expensive to get the weapon, beacause all can run around with one.

Nevin · Apr 24, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

BahamutKaiser does have a valid point regarding this issue.

Ok, I got a solution:

Let there be two "Master Smiths", two dwarven "brothers".
Elder brother - vanity skins, lives in remote mountain area, described by Nevin
Younger brother - normal skins, lives in Droknar's Forge

Both are able to craft:
- "clean" weapons with an inherent mod of the player's choice.
i.e 15>50, 20<50, 15 while enchanted, stance, 15 vs hexed, 20 while hexed
- various weapon upgrades
- various off-hand focus items
- staves with inherent quick recovery mods of the player's choice
- shields with interent mods, including quick recovery mods of the player's choice
- all items crafted are "customized" to the player character who ordered the items to be crafted

Elder brother:
- able to "personal customize" weapon or off-hand item with own name

Younger brother:
- no "personal customization", only +20% damage "basic customization"

There we go, issue resolved.
Discuss.

Tuoba if you noticed Bahamut is really the only person that shares that opinion, changes aren't needed. Anyways the practical player would obviously go to the younger Master Smith.

Rayea · Apr 24, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

aye, but the Vain Player that needs to impress will go to the Elder Master

hehe...

i do see where bahamut is comming from....
*myself having never been to droks personally ingame, nor having any accended chars that would be able to go far, i mean visit the UW FoW ect*

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Apr 24, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Aw, mate, I'm thinking that, with such an implementation, it would be fair for all players.

Although the weapon smith at Droknar's Forge is now capable of crafting 15>50 weapons, the other variants are yet available. i.e 20<50, 15 vs hexed, 20 while hexed
And lack of a decent shield crafter.

I believe what Bahamut is trying to imply is that, give the "casual" players a chance to have a fair choice of equipment selection?

Anyway, regarding shields, I think there will be quite a number of good collectors shields in factions.

But still, "special shields" with inherent mods such as these:
+4-8 vs <insert mob type>
+4-8 vs <insert damage type>
Quick recovery from <insert condition>

Still cannot be easily acquired by players.

Hopefully, this will change in the future.
Cheers.

Discuss.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 24, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Fair? Don't talk about fair. Those that hate to farm and just do the missions and quest pretty much get shafted unless they get lucky. Finally a rewarding quest. Brings the fairness back into the game.

Quote:

No, a selection of droped max mod weapons and being able to pick the best or most useful mods for your build are very different. Like picking a damage mod which will activate when your enchanted or have more the 50% health knowing that your build stresses that status is an advantage.

Well lets see. I could go to Lion's Arch or go online (not ebay, just an auction house) and buy a rare max damage, low requirement weapon with the skin and bonus I want. I could even go to district 1 ascalon the moment I get to post searing and buy it. Then I could buy the mods I want to be put on that weapon. Finally I can customize it and there you have it, the best or most useful mods for your build. The only thing missing is the unique name in red letters.

Quote:

but it does give advanced farmers better weapon selection, and then they try to swindle rediculous prices for them as well

Advanced farmers already have better weapon selections since they have more than enough money (through farming) to buy multiple max out weapons with the skins of their choosing and all the mods they will ever need. The weapons from this quest would be customized so that only the one character can use it. If someone tries to sell it and someone else actually buys it then the person who bought it just got scammed. Crap like that already happens regardless so I don't see that as a reason for anything.

The quest item would be near or after the end of the game and would be a decent quest reward for a change.