Curse

Skye Marin · Aug 11, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Many Elite Skills aren't used because they aren't useful. The most recent update improved a large number of elite skills, but many are still not fulfilling their full potential.

Ideally, a good Elite will set the tone for a build and strongly compliment it without dominating it. If your elite is disabled, and your build is now useless, your build has failed, and the opposite is true. The best Elite skills are versatile, and are good by themselves, but great when complimented by skill and other skills. Elite skills shouldn't be the focus of a team-based same-skill spike. They must be definitively better than their closest non-elite equivalent, otherwise, it's just a waste.

With that in mind, I've compiled a list of Elites that should be buffed or changed to make them more useful, and fill in some thematic blank spaces in certain classes. These buffs have been introduced with PvP in mind. If you have any real issues with these buffs, I'll give some commentary on why they would help the class, or why they aren't especially overpowered, or I'll just change the buff completely.

Assassin:

Assault Enchantments - Deals 15..45 earth damage for each enchantment removed, and counts as a lead attack.
Seeping Wound - Added unconditional -1..4 degen.
Locust's Fury - Add a 25% IAS while wielding daggers
Mark of Insecurity - Enchantments and staces expire 120..300% faster.
Shroud of Silence - Removes your stance. Lowered recharge to 15 seconds.
Siphon Strength - The additional critical strikes bonus now effects attacks against all foes, not just the foe this hex is cast on.
Way of the Empty Palm - You also gain +10 armor and +1..5 health regeneration when not attacking.
Wastrel's Collapse - Increased cost to 10. Increase recharge to 15. Changed to half-ranged spell. Change functionality: "If foe is not casting a spell or attacking, you knock down target foe and shadow step to their location."

Assault Enchantments now has a strong reward for successful completion of a combo, as previously, trying to complete a combo against an enchanted foe to strip the enchants was counterintuitive. A foe with a stack of enchantments is more likely to survive. It counts as a lead now so that it can't be used continuously after one attack chain. For Mark of Insecurity, "300% faster" means +300% faster, so you're consuming enchantment at 4 times the rate, so they only last a quarter. Compare SoS to any 3-second knockdown. While spells can't be cast, they target could still kite or use non-spell skills. Way of the Empty Palm now has a defensive bonus, which gives a welcome second benefit to the under-used elite. The new Wastrel's Collapse is easily triggered when the foe is moving, making it a strong snare, and the low recharge makes it a good opening move for a Falling off-hand. Compare to "Coward!", Bull's strike, or Bull's Charge.

Elementalist:

Gust - Knocks down any attacking or moving foe for 2 seconds unconditionally, and also knocks down any foe for 3 seconds if that foe is hexed with a water or earth hex.
Mind Shock - Bonus damage is added into the first packet of damage when triggered. Exhaustion only occurs if the knockdown interrupts a skill or if the foe is already knocked down.
Invoke Lightning - Lower recharge to 5.
Sandstorm - lower recharge to 25.
Stone Sheath - Also causes 50% slower attack speed.
Energy Boon - Changed functionality: "Skill. For 5..20 seconds, you gain +0..2 energy regeneration, +1..3 to your elemental attributes, and all spells that you cast while above 75% energy recharge 25% faster. This skill ends if your energy falls below 50% or if you are under the effect of a glyph.
Double Dragon - Lowered recharge to 10. Change functionality to: "Skill. For 2 seconds, all moving and attacking foes in the area of target ally are hit for 30..90 fire damage each second."
Mind Burn - Bonus damage is added into the first packet of damage when triggered. Only causes exhaustion when used against foes that are already burning.
Mind Freeze - Bonus damage is added into the first packet of damage when triggered. Only causes exhaustion when used against foes that are moving, or already under a water hex. Lower slow to 66%.
Second Wind - Lower casting time to 1 second. This skill is no longer a spell.

The three Mind skills have been given conditional exhaustion that match their abilities, instead of definitely exhaustion, which caused them to be over-costed, especially for elite skills. The conditional effects also account for teams running several copies of the same skill. Energy Boon has been changed from a redundant Elite Energy Management, to a sort of sum of glyphs that is dependent on your own energy pool. Double Dragon gives some potentially dangerous fire AoE damage against a team, but is unfocused enough not to cause balance issues. Any foe that is hit my the first blast and knows the skill's functionality should be tactically aware to either stop moving or attacking, or be punished with damage. Similarly, a team that tries to abuse this skill with several copies will easily be defeated by teams with some degree of battlefield awareness.

Dervish:

Arcane Zeal - Lower cost to 5, triggers on any spell or attack skill.
Avatar of Grenth - Attacks also do +5..20 damage to hexed foes.
Reaper's Sweep - Deep wound triggers when foe is below 75% health.

For an energy management skill, Arcane zeal's current cost was a bit counter-intuitive. Avatar of Grenth was previously nerfed a generally underpowered version, so adding play with both hexes and enchantments is both thematically sound and should prove to spawn some interesting team builds. When you observe a foe with less than 50% health and no deep wound, the flaw in Reaper's Sweep is apparent. That foe will most likely be healed within the time it takes foe the attack to be triggered and hit, especially with skills like WoH and ZB in play, so the pre-requisite has been loosened.

Mesmer:

Enchanter's Conundrum - Changed functionality to: "Target foe takes 300% longer to cast enchantments (maximum 2 seconds), and takes 30..120 damage when casting non-enchantment spells". Lower recharge to 15.
Power Flux - Lower cost to 5 and recharge to 8.
Simple Thievery - The power of the skill stolen is your current domination attribute.
Mantra of Recovery - Increase duration to 10..25.
Stolen Speed - Lower casting time to 1/4, foe takes 75% longer to cast spells.
Symbols of Inspiration - Changed to a stance. Increased duration to 5..35, reduce energy gain to 1..3, add a health gain of 15..45. Reduces recharge of successfully cast mesmer signets by 5..35%.
Recurring Insecurity - Lower recharge to 10, increase degeneration to -1..6.
Shatter Storm - Moved to Fast Casting line. Reduced recharge disable to +7..3 for each enchantment removed (maximum 15 seconds)

Many buffs here are intended to make overcosted skills a more attractive choice. MoR can now be maintained at a lower Fast Casting spec with it's lower 33% recharge time, allowing for more consistent skill use. Recurring Insecurity has been buffed to make it more in line with similar non-elite degen illusion hexes. Soul Barbs would likely also have to be changed to only trigger on new hexes, but a lower recharge on that hex would make up for it, and be appreciated.

Monk:

Blessed Light - Reduce Cost to 5 energy. If a Hex is removed, you lose 5 energy.
Boon Signet - Increase healing to 20..80.
Peace and Harmony - Effects all allies in the area. Add +1..3 health regeneration. Lower duration to 5..35. Increase recharge to 15.
Withdraw Hexes - Reduce cost to 10, removes 1..2 hexes from each party member nearby target ally. Change additional recharge to +3.
Healing Light - Lower casting time to 3/4. Change functionality: "Heal target ally for 40..100 health. If ally is under the effects of an enchantment, you heal for 20..70 more and you gain 5 energy."
Amity - Increase cost to 10. Lower recharge to 12. Change functionality:"Elite Hex Spell. For 3 seconds, the next 1..3 attacks from target foe and nearby foes deal 50% less damage and heal for the amount they would have otherwise inflicted (maximum 15..45)."
Life Sheath - Now adds -10..25 damage reduction, which is calculated before the pool of negated damage. Lower Duration to 5 seconds.
Ray of Judgment - Lower cost and recharge to 10. Causes burning for 3 seconds. This skill has no effect against non-summoned foes that are already burning.
Word of Censure - Lower cost to 5.

A handful of elites were simply outclassed by better non-elite skills, or overcosted due to their abusable nature in certain conditions. Simple buffs make some skills more attractive, while some skill re-works prove unique and fun. The smiting skills have been changed to make them useful and strong skills, but not useful in a team spike build.

Necromancer:

Cultist's Fervor - Change sacrifice to a flat -10% health loss. Lower recharge to 20.
Ravenous Gaze - Change Functionality: "If you have less health than target foe, you steal 10..25% of target foe's remaining health (maximum 120)."
Feast of Corruption - Lower cost and recharge to 10. Change functionality: "Deal 10..80 shadow damage to target foe and all nearby foes that are over 50% health. For each foe that would be damage that is also hexed, steal 10..80 health instead.".
Lingering Curse - Lower cost to 15.
Order of Apostasy - Change health loss to 15..8%.
Signet of Suffering - Lower recharge to 5, Lower casting time to 1, lower maximum damage to 90.
Soul Bind - Also triggers on Enchantments.
Weaken Knees - Add -1..3 health degeneration. Knockdown is triggered by physical or elemental damage. Does not end after knockdown. Lower duration to 3..12. Increase recharge to 10.
Contagion - Lower recharge to 15. Change functionality: "For 2..10 seconds, every second that target foe is moving, that foe spreads all current conditions and their remaining durations from himself to all nearby foes. Target foe suffers from poison for 10 seconds every time they use a skill."

Skills like Signet of Suffering and Feast of Corruption have been changed to make them useful as strong pressure and complementary damage skills, but less effective as team-spike skills, which is why they were created so limited in the first place.

Paragon:

"Incoming!" - Lower recharge to 12. Change functionality: For 1..3 seconds, target ally and adjacent allies take 50% less damage from all sources and have a 50% chance to block incoming attacks.
Cautery Signet - Lower Recharge to 10. Up to 3 foes in the area are also set on fire for the same duration.

Incoming has been changed to help counter incoming team spikes, but is not chainable by a team. Cautery Signet has been given a useful buff in light of the MoI hit, and adds a semi-useful effect.

Ranger:

Strike as One - Increase damage to +5..20.
Practiced Stance - You also attack 33% faster. This stance ends if you move.
Archer's Signet - Moved to Marksmanship. Reduce recharge to 30.
Poison Arrow - Unblockable, also deals poison to adjacent foes.
Quick Shot - Deals double damage to moving foes.

Poison Arrow has been outclassed by Burning Arrow and Incendiary Arrows combined with Apply Poison recently, so adding unblockable and adjacent-poisoning clauses makes to more comparable.

Ritualist:

Clamor of Souls - Change functionality: "Skill. For 10 seconds, target spirit deals 15..60 lightning damage to up to 3 non-summoned foes in the area, and deals 15..60 lightning damage to all summoned creatures in the area, including itself and allied creatures. This skill ends when the spirit dies."
Signet of Ghostly Might - Increase duration to 20 seconds, add IAS of 33%.
Weapon of Quickening - Lower casting time to 1.
Spirit Channeling - Renewal effect and triggers the healing if you successfully summon a spirit.

Clamor of Souls has been changed to a sort of sustainable DoT AoE, in the line of Agony. Note that if Clamor is used on two or more spirits that are in the area of each other, they will kill each other faster. Signet of Ghostly Might has been gravely underpowered. A viable Weapon of Quickening would spawn some creative team builds, and put communing Rits on the map. Spirit Channeling previously was not an effective Elite Energy Management, so making it renewable adds risk and reward to it's functionality.

Warrior:

Cleave - Increase damage to +10..40
Decapitate - Change Functionality: "You lose all adrenaline and energy. You strike your foe twice. The first attack causes a Deep Wound for 5..20 seconds, and second attack deals +5..35 damage and is always a critical hit. If you a kill a foe in this way, you gain 2..10 energy and 1..4 strikes of adrenaline."
Whirling Axe - Also causes critical hit.
Enraged Smash - Increase damage to +5..15.
Charging Strike - Add +0..2 adrenaline on hit.
Headbutt - Target foe is interrupted, and both you and the target are dazed for 2..6 seconds.
Magehunter Strike - Increase damage to +10..40.
Primal Rage - Only non-attack skills are disabled. This skill is no longer a stance.
Shove - Only lose your adrenaline if you interrupt a skill. Also removes a stance from target foe.
Soldier's Stance - Add an unconditional 25% speed boost
Hundred Blades - Add 1 adrenal gain per foe hit.
Skull Crack - Lower cost to 5 strikes.

Many Elites here have been given damage buffs or adrenaline sources to compensate for their general lack of utility. Decapitate has been reworked to mesh well with the limitations of how a Deep Wound works, and extra reward is given toward skilled use. For a skill like enraged smash, it's easy enough to make a skill bar with 5 adrenal skills, but it's very limiting, that is, it's not efficient to build around around the skill in it's current state. A similar comparison could be made with Symbolic Strike. Instead of +12 damage with a limit of 70, try +15 damage with a limit of 40. 3 of any one type of skill on a bar is more than enough in most cases.
Compare the new Headbutt to Beguiling Haze. Adds some damage, but not the shadow step. The duration was reduced because strength is a more popular attribute than shadow arts, and so that a warrior can't daze one caster, then another with Plague touch in a short period of time.
I added a scaling unconditional speed boost to Soldier's Stance, but for this not to be overpowered, Symbiotic Bond and "Can't Touch This!" would have to have their zero-spec durations reduced. Also note that Solder's Fury (The Paragon +33% IAS and +33% adrenal gain) already has a 10 second duration at 0 Leadership, and can be coupled with any stance.

Keep the comments coming.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 11, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

There are only two things I disagree with these skill changes *and I only looked at the professions that affect me*

They are:
1.Avatar of Grenth - I think this is one of the few elite skills that can benefit greatly from the PvP/PvE split, like Order of Undeath. I would love to see the old Avatar of Grenth return for either PvP or PvE (which ever one it was not changed for). The new AoG doesn't fit with the idea behind the avatars, and seems to be the most underpowered of the 5 avatars, but bringing back the old version would make it better then how it is now.

Not to mention, the "against hexed foes" doesn't fit with how it currently or ever worked. Change it to "against enchanted foes" and it would fit the idea of the Elite better.

My suggestion for a change to Avatar of Grenth would be having one version to be unblockable and deals extra damage to enchanted foes, the other strip enchantments.

2. "Incoming!" - The thing that makes this elite underpowered is the length of the duration, which your suggestion doesn't even touch. It does not need the 50% extra chance to block, but a longer duration. Maybe having the scale 1...3...5 (0-12-16 attributes), would make it at least a bit better, maybe longer, I'm not sure, I'm not one for balancing.

No issues with other skill change ideas.

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

PvP in mind means I can wreck you, my stuff in bold.

Assault Enchantments - Deals 15..45 earth damage for each enchantment removed, and counts as a lead attack. Needs a damage limit.
Seeping Wound - Added unconditional -1..4 degen. Should just let the degen happen twice if both conditions are there.
Locust's Fury - Add a 25% IAS while wielding daggers. IAS + daggers = bad. WotA is still imba.
Mark of Insecurity - Enchantments and staces expire 120..300% faster. plz no. Too strong against a flagger.
Shroud of Silence - Removes your stance. Lowered recharge to 15 seconds. These effects shouldn't be in the game in the first place.
Siphon Strength - The additional critical strikes bonus now effects attacks against all foes, not just the foe this hex is cast on. Overpowered.
Way of the Empty Palm - You also gain +10 armor and +1..5 health regeneration when not attacking. Eh. Still not worth the slot.
Wastrel's Collapse - Increased cost to 10. Increase recharge to 15. Changed to half-ranged spell. Change functionality: "If foe is not casting a spell or attacking, you knock down target foe and shadow step to their location." Why the hell would I want to shadowstep if its half ranged? You can walk up and do a kd requiring attack at that range just fine.

Gust - Knocks down any attacking or moving foe for 2 seconds unconditionally, and also knocks down any foe for 3 seconds if that foe is hexed with a water or earth hex. Sure.
Mind Shock - Bonus damage is added into the first packet of damage when triggered. Exhaustion only occurs if the knockdown interrupts a skill or if the foe is already knocked down. That's a nerf. The best part of a second packet of damage is it goes through RoF and isn't strong enough to hit Prot Spirit.
Invoke Lightning - Lower recharge to 5. Whatever.
Sandstorm - lower recharge to 25. Again, whatever.
Stone Sheath - Also causes 50% slower attack speed. whateveeeer.
Energy Boon - Changed functionality: "Skill. For 5..20 seconds, you gain +0..2 energy regeneration, +1..3 to your elemental attributes, and all spells that you cast while above 75% energy recharge 25% faster. This skill ends if your energy falls below 50% or if you are under the effect of a glyph. Pretty terrible.
Double Dragon - Lowered recharge to 10. Change functionality to: "Skill. For 2 seconds, all moving and attacking foes in the area of target ally are hit for 30..90 fire damage each second." lol. That's pretty strong and just punishes kiting and pre-kiting.
Mind Burn - Bonus damage is added into the first packet of damage when triggered. Only causes exhaustion when used against foes that are already burning. See Mind Shock.
Mind Freeze - Bonus damage is added into the first packet of damage when triggered. Only causes exhaustion when used against foes that are moving, or already under a water hex. Lower slow to 66%. See Mind Shock.
Second Wind - Lower casting time to 1 second. This skill is no longer a spell. Whatever.

Arcane Zeal - Lower cost to 5, triggers on any spell or attack skill. Still not worth a slot.
Avatar of Grenth - Attacks also do +5..20 damage to hexed foes. See above.
Reaper's Sweep - Deep wound triggers when foe is below 75% health. See above.

Enchanter's Conundrum - Changed functionality to: "Target foe takes 300% longer to cast enchantments (maximum 2 seconds), and takes 30..120 damage when casting non-enchantment spells". Lower recharge to 15. Overpowered.
Power Flux - Lower cost to 5 and recharge to 8. Meh.
Simple Thievery - The power of the skill stolen is your current domination attribute. Not worth a slot.
Mantra of Recovery - Increase duration to 10..25. The type of skill that shouldn't be buffed.
Stolen Speed - Lower casting time to 1/4, foe takes 75% longer to cast spells. No. This skill needs to be bug fixed and improved the way it is, not a functionality change.
Symbols of Inspiration - Changed to a stance. Increased duration to 5..35, reduce energy gain to 1..3, add a health gain of 15..45. Reduces recharge of successfully cast mesmer signets by 5..35%. Still not worth the slot.
Recurring Insecurity - Lower recharge to 10, increase degeneration to -1..6. Vaguely overpowered.
Shatter Storm - Moved to Fast Casting line. Reduced recharge disable to +7..3 for each enchantment removed (maximum 15 seconds) Still not worth slot.

Blessed Light - Reduce Cost to 5 energy. If a Hex is removed, you lose 5 energy. No. BLight is balanced, WoH is just overpowered.
Boon Signet - Increase healing to 20..80. Whatever.
Peace and Harmony - Effects all allies in the area. Add +1..3 health regeneration. Lower duration to 5..35. Increase recharge to 15. An AoE Mending....whatever.
Withdraw Hexes - Reduce cost to 10, removes 1..2 hexes from each party member nearby target ally. Change additional recharge to +3. Not good enough.
Healing Light - Lower casting time to 3/4. Change functionality: "Heal target ally for 40..100 health. If ally is under the effects of an enchantment, you heal for 20..70 more and you gain 5 energy." wut. This is way overpowered.
Amity - Increase cost to 10. Lower recharge to 12. Change functionality:"Elite Hex Spell. For 3 seconds, the next 1..3 attacks from target foe and nearby foes deal 50% less damage and heal for the amount they would have otherwise inflicted (maximum 15..45)." Eh.
Life Sheath - Now adds -10..25 damage reduction, which is calculated before the pool of negated damage. Lower Duration to 5 seconds. Whatever.
Ray of Judgment - Lower cost and recharge to 10. Causes burning for 3 seconds. This skill has no effect against non-summoned foes that are already burning. Also whatever.
Word of Censure - Lower cost to 5. lol.

Cultist's Fervor - Change sacrifice to a flat -10% health loss. Lower recharge to 20. Very meh.
Ravenous Gaze - Change Functionality: "If you have less health than target foe, you steal 10..25% of target foe's remaining health (maximum 120)." Crap in PvP, overpowered vs the Guild Lord (especially now)
Feast of Corruption - Lower cost and recharge to 10. Change functionality: "Deal 10..80 shadow damage to target foe and all nearby foes that are over 50% health. For each foe that would be damage that is also hexed, steal 10..80 health instead.". Meh.
Lingering Curse - Lower cost to 15. Mehhh.
Order of Apostasy - Change health loss to 15..8%. Bleh.
Signet of Suffering - Lower recharge to 5, Lower casting time to 1, lower maximum damage to 90. Meh.
Soul Bind - Also triggers on Enchantments. Uhm...this makes no sense with its current effect.
Weaken Knees - Add -1..3 health degeneration. Knockdown is triggered by physical or elemental damage. Does not end after knockdown. Lower duration to 3..12. Increase recharge to 10. Overpowered.
Contagion - Lower recharge to 15. Change functionality: "For 2..10 seconds, every second that target foe is moving, that foe spreads all current conditions and their remaining durations from himself to all nearby foes. Target foe suffers from poison for 10 seconds every time they use a skill." Wut. Should be changed to Disease to fit the name.

"Incoming!" - Lower recharge to 12. Change functionality: For 1..3 seconds, target ally and adjacent allies take 50% less damage from all sources and have a 50% chance to block incoming attacks. Overpowered. As. Hell. Is. Now. Chainable. With. Just. 4. Paragons. Please. No.
Cautery Signet - Lower Recharge to 10. Up to 3 foes in the area are also set on fire for the same duration. Eh......

Strike as One - Increase damage to +5..20. Eh.
Practiced Stance - You also attack 33% faster. This stance ends if you move. Completely useless except for turret rangers, which are gimmicks. Please no.
Archer's Signet - Moved to Marksmanship. Reduce recharge to 30. Still not worth a slot.
Poison Arrow - Unblockable, also deals poison to adjacent foes. Okay.
Quick Shot - Deals double damage to moving foes. Rangers aren't about damage. Worthless.

Clamor of Souls - Change functionality: "Skill. For 10 seconds, target spirit deals 15..60 lightning damage to up to 3 non-summoned foes in the area, and deals 15..60 lightning damage to all summoned creatures in the area, including itself and allied creatures. This skill ends when the spirit dies." Interesting but pointless in most modes that aren't AB or HA.
Signet of Ghostly Might - Increase duration to 20 seconds, add IAS of 33%. Why would I dedicate an elite to making a spirit attack faster? Mind you they aren't even used in some modes, and the modes they are used in, they die fast enough as is. Probably powerful as hell in RA, but otherwise completely bad and unuseful and not worth the slot, probably not even in RA.
Weapon of Quickening - Lower casting time to 1. Eh.
Spirit Channeling - Renewal effect and triggers the healing if you successfully summon a spirit. Overpowered.

Cleave - Increase damage to +10..40 Still not worth it, even though this is very power creepish and imbalanced, it's function isn't very useful as straight +dmg.
Decapitate - Change Functionality: "You lose all adrenaline and energy. You strike your foe twice. The first attack causes a Deep Wound for 5..20 seconds, and second attack deals +5..35 damage and is always a critical hit. If you a kill a foe in this way, you gain 2..10 energy and 1..4 strikes of adrenaline." Vaguely imbalanced. Should just keep the original skill but lose the adrenaline loss clause.
Whirling Axe - Also causes critical hit. Please no.
Enraged Smash - Increase damage to +5..15. Meh.
Charging Strike - Add +0..2 adrenaline on hit. Very meh.
Headbutt - Target foe is interrupted, and both you and the target are dazed for 2..6 seconds. Is redundant (dazed interrupts on application), and more importantly: meh.
Magehunter Strike - Increase damage to +10..40. Way too high damage. In fact, it's better than Cleave.
Primal Rage - Only non-attack skills are disabled. This skill is no longer a stance. Not worth a slot.
Shove - Only lose your adrenaline if you interrupt a skill. Also removes a stance from target foe. Imbalanced cause it removes a stance and is unblockable plus it basically has no drawbacks to the class that uses it already. (assassins)
Soldier's Stance - Add an unconditional 25% speed boost Still not worth a slot.
Hundred Blades - Add 1 adrenal gain per foe hit. See above.
Skull Crack - Lower cost to 5 strikes. Also not worth a slot.

Basically to sum it up, a majority of your changes are either completely meh and still not worth the slot, average, or completely overpowered. A couple of them are pretty good changes, but too many of them have gone from "completely terrible" to "not-so-bad-but-still-not-worth-it."

Miska Bow · Aug 11, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Dont know about the other skills but [poison arrow] dont need any buff, its already the most spammable condition out there. Recharge time and energy cost are a real joke

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Dont know about the other skills but [poison arrow] dont need any buff, its already the most spammable condition out there. Recharge time and energy cost are a real joke

No it isn't. (there are skills that can apply conditions faster under better circumstances)

It's also completely outdone by a ton of other ranger elites, and the Ranger's own [Apply Poison] given the nature of PvP.

credit · Aug 11, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Buff healing light for me, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything else.

Most of the suggested changes are either overpowered or just average, as stated above.

TheodenKing · Aug 11, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I must say, I'm with DarkNecrid on most of your wish list. Good effort though.

Miska Bow · Aug 11, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

No it isn't. (there are skills that can apply conditions faster under better circumstances)

It's also completely outdone by a ton of other ranger elites, and the Ranger's own [Apply Poison] given the nature of PvP.

15 energy 2 sec cast 12 sec recharge yeah... looks awsome

I did not say its the most uber ranger elite, im saying it dont need any buff since its highly spammable

credit · Aug 11, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

15 energy 2 sec cast 12 sec recharge yeah... looks awsome

Did you just call apply poison bad, or am I just missing something?

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

15 energy 2 sec cast 12 sec recharge yeah... looks awsome

I did not say its the most uber ranger elite, im saying it dont need any buff since its highly spammable

Costs less than 5 cause of expertise, is used in places where you won't get interrupted, and in the long run costs way less than Poison Arrow to poison people.

Yes...it is awesome.

Also, since it is highly spammable is a bad reason not to buff it. If there was skill that did 1 damage but had a 0 second recharge and a 1/4 second activation, your poor reason would not get it a buff. Yes, it is highly spammable, but it is pretty CRAP. There are better ways to apply poison that don't take your elite slot.

EDIT:
Added mesmer section that I miss'd.

Miska Bow · Aug 11, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Plz take a look at all the rangers skills that are applying a CONDITION.

Can you find 1 skill that applies a condition, cost less, got no activation time and recharge as fast?

Sleeper Service · Aug 11, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Weaken Knees - Add -1..3 health degeneration. Knockdown is triggered by physical or elemental damage. Does not end after knockdown. Lower duration to 3..12. Increase recharge to 10.

far FAR too overpowered.

Quote:

Contagion - Lower recharge to 15. Change functionality: "For 2..10 seconds, every second that target foe is moving, that foe spreads all current conditions and their remaining durations from himself to all nearby foes. Target foe suffers from poison for 10 seconds every time they use a skill."

too complicated.

i suggest:

"HEX:
for 3...15 seconds whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill, Contagion spreads 1...3 conditions and remaining durations to foes in the area."

Snow Bunny · Aug 11, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Invoke Lightning - Lower recharge to 5.

Invoke spike every 5 seconds.

Quote:

Reaper's Sweep - Deep

Quote:

wound triggers when foe is below 75% health.

Hi. Watch me 2 hit kill you with Rsweep.

Quote:

Feast of Corruption - Lower cost and recharge to 10. Change functionality: "Deal 10..80 shadow damage to target foe and all nearby foes that are over 50% health. For each foe that would be damage that is also hexed, steal 10..80 health instead.".

Hi. I'm FoC spike

Quote:

Order of Apostasy -

Quote:

Change health loss to 15..8%.

Still a strong elite already.

Quote:

Soul Bind -

Quote:

Also triggers on Enchantments.

Strong and sees a lot of play already.

Quote:

"Incoming!" -

Quote:

Lower recharge to 12. Change functionality: For 1..3 seconds, target ally and adjacent allies take 50% less damage from all sources and have a 50% chance to block incoming attacks.

4 Paragon chain. Waka waka.

Onion Guy · Aug 11, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

What about Offering of Blood? I think it would be a good idea to add a 7sec disable to touch skills.
I like the idea to change many of those elites, but some of the ways that you recomend arent the best. Like with Weaken Knees. I think it would be better as "30sec recharge, 15 cost. For 4...15 sec if target foe takes damage they are knocked down and suffer from poison for 10 sec. Ends when foe takes damage." May be a little strong, but that is what post update fixes are for.

Gibz · Aug 11, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Buff spawning power?

Crom The Pale · Aug 11, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I would suggest for Decapitate that if you keep it exactly as it it BUT add that if Target Dies you regain all Energy and all Adrenaline then it would be very usefull and balanced.

Hundred blades still needs something more, either + 5..15damage or deals a condition like Cracked Armor.

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Plz take a look at all the rangers skills that are applying a CONDITION.

Can you find 1 skill that applies a condition, cost less, got no activation time and recharge as fast?

The problem with you, is you think solely in numbers. It isn't about the energy cost, nor the activation time, nor the recharge time, but rather how useful the skill is in a vacuum. Poison Arrow isn't good because:
*It poisons a target.
*You have to pay for it x the number of targets you want to poison.
*It doesn't do any damage or any other utility so it is a very poor pressure skill and a non-existent spike skill.
*It has all those cons and is an elite.

Now let's compare to Apply Poison:
*It poisons an infinite number of targets for one cost.
*You only have to pay for it once.
*It has synergy with skills that req. preparations.
*It doesn't do damage, but it gives you a slot for an elite that does, or that can add even more pressure.
*It isn't an elite.

Apply Poison is very good and useful in a fight.
Poison Arrow isn't.

Please reply back to me when you realize that the game sometimes isn't about the numbers, but how useful they truly are outside of those parameters. Wasting your elite slot on a skill that only poisons someone and nothing else is pretty epic fail and not useful, considering it is outdone by Burning Arrow in every way. Thanks!

Also to the OP, I added the mesmer section I missed! Just in case if you didn't notice. =)

HackingHippie712 · Aug 11, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Hmmm, im kinda lazy so ill only do mesmers for now

Mesmer
Enchanters Conundrum-Functionality changed to "Target foe looses all enchantments and takes X dmg per enchantment lost, for X seconds target foe is hexed with enchanters conundrum and takes an additional X dmg whenever it uses an enchantment spell
-May be overpowered, but make the dmg cap at a certain point maybe around 100

Crippling Anguish-Increased snare speed to 66%, increased degen to 3...6
or
Change functionality to-For X seconds target foe moves, attacks, and casts spells 0%...25%...50% slower
-Basically an elite sum of all fears

Shared burden-add "for each affected foe, this hex applies -1 health degen(example: if 5 foes were snared it would add -5 health degen to all those foes"
-As this skill is now, its bascially a worse deep freeze(less snare speed, no dmg, higher recharge for 15 less energy and an elite slot) the degen makes it more along the lines of the rest of the illusion hexes

Illusionary Weaponry-Add in ranged attacks and a IaS, maybe even buff damage slighty
or
add in a X% chance to block while attacking, going along more with the "Illusion" thing

xxx wraith xxx · Aug 11, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Recurring Insecurity - Lower recharge to 10, increase degeneration to -1..6.
can you say Soul Barb overload?

Assault Enchantments - Deals 15..45 earth damage for each enchantment removed, and counts as a lead attack.

If this counts as a lead attack then this will remove every enchantment on youre target as soon as you start youre combo...GG

Gust - Knocks down any attacking or moving foe for 2 seconds unconditionally, and also knocks down any foe for 3 seconds if that foe is hexed with a water or earth hex.

its good as it is already

Invoke Lightning - Lower recharge to 5.
6 eles, 3 kills every 5 sec...i am in

(no, way to overpowered)

Healing Light - Lower casting time to 3/4. Change functionality: "Heal target ally for 40..100 health. If ally is under the effects of an enchantment, you heal for 20..70 more and you gain 5 energy."
/putupguardian+useHealinglight for 50% block and 170 healing for only 5e YAY

Soul Bind - Also triggers on Enchantments.
tell me...did you even think about this one?

"Incoming!" - Lower recharge to 12. Change functionality: For 1..3 seconds, target ally and adjacent allies take 50% less damage from all sources and have a 50% chance to block incoming attacks.
with this skill you effectivly lower all dmg bye 75% wich gives monks almost time to sleep when using 2 paragons with this skill.

thnx for reading
~Cheers, Wraith~

Arkantos · Aug 11, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Plz take a look at all the rangers skills that are applying a CONDITION.

Can you find 1 skill that applies a condition, cost less, got no activation time and recharge as fast?

Apply poison spreads more poison for less energy than poison arrow does. Take a 8v8 situation for example. Use apply poison for 15 energy, and begin spreading poison to enemies for free, for 24 seconds. That's potentially 15 energy for applying poison to the complete other team. In order for poison arrow to do that, you need to use it 8 times, which is 40 energy before expertise. 15 energy is a lot less than 40, don't you agree?

Apply poison is better than poison arrow, it's really as simple as that.