Curse

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Supple and demand are no the only rules in game. There are many others, you cannot just take the ones that favour your point and forget about the rest.

Let's take cars. Let's forget about 'rarity' (brand), and take only age.
- Very old cars/Classic cars.
- Old cars.
- New cars.

- Very old cars and classic cars are expensive because they are bow few and old. But more important is quality. Oldest cars worth more the more perfect they are and the more original pieces they have.
- Old cars. Worth almost nothing. Their pieces separately may be worth more than the whole car, they are few, but they are useless.
- New cars: More and more expensive. But NOT because they are few, but because they have 'properties' the old cars do not.

If we take the life of a car:
- New car: Current inscribed drops, skins that drop for the first time, items with properties never seen before.
- Old car: Items that have been dropping for a long time, customized items, items with all the mods salvaged and poor base.
- Classic cars: Items that no longer drop, not customized perfect rare items with max most wanted mods.

You calim that you want more rarity, but if they kept old items while adding inscriptions, the 'Classic' items would have increase in price if we follow this rules.

Ok, there are some countries that stay only with Classic and Old cars (Like Cuba, put "Cuba car" in google to see that, XD)
But as you know, worldwide economy is really messed.

It's much better when anyone regardless of where he is from has the option to choose what they want, regardless of what a few people think.

Even when I give in and say options 'make both kind of drops coexist' or 'do not touch old weapons' (something that I don't agree with, since I think the old drops should be updates completely like it happened with armor) you say 'no' without thinking about this and without thinking about the rest and majority of players that like better a system that allows them to reuse items any way they want.

Hm... I will consider that as a "I want the game to be for me and not for all". Like with those that opposed to the update in Armors because they had more than one Obsidian set: "I paid for it, I deserve to keep it". Nah. we have nothing and nothing was give to us, we only own the right to play, Anet owns or characters and their items, and they must do what is better for all, not for some.

Can we tray again without starting without a "No to all that means 'change'"?

Yawgmoth · Feb 17, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

- Kills rarity? That's not true! Once inscriptions are added, they can even rework drop rate of rare skins, so they become more rare, since more drops with the skin would be usable. Also more skins to old campaigns should be added, so the rate of each one appearing is spread amongst the new.

Yes, it would kill the rarity.
So to have this change not completely devastate the market a complete overhaul of all drop tables for all mobs in Prophecies, Factions, FoW and UW and all chests there is needed + adding more skins to Prophecies also necessary.
Ridiculous.
All that for a lame nerf.

Quote:

- Destroys market? As long as there are at least one rare skin sold for 50..250k, sorry, but that means that it is working as intended. 2000k prices where never meant to be. You cannot demand back what you where never actually given.

The market for the currently rare and respected skins that dont have common inscribable versions would totally collapse. NONE of those skins would exceed 10k (unless dropped as req.*8* or unless a MASSIVE drop rate reduction is applied).

And there was nothing wrong with superhigh prices, those items weren't necessary to progress in the game so nobody had to grind for them. And finding one of them, bah, even the ability to find one was fantastic. Was. After this nerf the best possible drop will be just a mod. How lame.

Quote:

- Devalues items? All items devalue, but if the update is not made to the old items, some certain weapons, like the +15(unconditional) would go 'bang' in prices. And some skins would keep value even unchanged. Also the customization could be reworked so items are better while customized or worse while not, so more items are removed from the market and it's created the need for more.

Update that instantly devalues a lot of what people care about and value is bad. Very bad, even worse when it's a completely unnecessary update.

Yes, it would be an Instant Devaluation. I imagine people selling their rares like crazy after an announcement of such update.

And no, unconditionals wouldn't be affected, they don't even have prices as nobody trades them.

Quote:

You are blaming inscriptions for something that it's not their fault.
That's not due to inscriptions, that due to increase in farmers and increase in golds thanks to Hard Mod and loot scaling, and almost no one customizing items, thus not removing them from the market.

Inscriptions did completely remove rarity and uniqueness of many items. Combined with HardMode overfarm
And LOLWTF @ "almost no one customizing items". I don't see how someone could use a weapon and not customize it, except maybe for complete newbs that don't know what customization is. +20%dmg too small effect?

And yes, there are plenty of ways of making a better item system, one that could be applied to all campagins. Just look at this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfall Release Update - Wednesday October 25

You can only place an inscription in a weapon if that weapon has a blank inscription slot. Inscriptions and inscription slots are sometimes found on rare weapons dropped by monsters in Elona.

If only they did it how they said they did... inscriptions on rare weapons and only sometimes! But instead we got all of them, even common blues.

If I was a developer for Nightfall responsible for the weapons, and I had to implement a new system that allows full moddability of every type of equippable item, I would do it this way:
*Some Crafter and Collector weapons fully inscribable just as they are today,
*Make only some of the rare (gold) drops inscribable, with a different chance depending on the source - lower chance (10-20%) if it's a common mob, higher (maybe 33%) if it's a boss or chest, and 50% for a Reward chest (easier dungeons or Zaishen Chest), 80 or even 100% for Elite Reward Chests (HoH, FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, Slavers).
*Give those rare inscribable drops a NEW rarity color! They're a completely new and different class of items, they're superior to usual golds (except ones that happened to drop perfect), they deserve a new color (for example dark gold or orange)! Make them differ from the usual golds to avoid confusion, so no noob would cry about not being able to upgrade his gold.
*Blues and Purples never inscribable. EDIT: Golds never inscribable too, only the new class and select crafter/collectors
*Adjust the rarities of caster weapon or focus inscriptions based on mod groups so their rarity isn't equal - so while generating an item a group is selected first (for example a +armor_vs_type inscription group) then one is picked from the group. This is to ensure some of the most useful insciptions aren't ridiculously rare.
*Make loot scaling affect gold items too or at least the inscribable ones. At least in hardmode. Overfarm is bad.
*Add a mod/inscription trader NPC...

After selling enough copies of NF / EotN, this drop system could be applied to all drops in previous campagins, but that would require work on the drop tables to preserve the rarity of some old prestige items. Do it all carefully not to wreck the economy and not upset the oldschool fanbase much.

This way a system full of variety, with 2 coexisting types of rare items could be applied worldwide for consistency.

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

At last some options, that's better than just 'no'. Thank you!

Most things you say are acceptable. What I want most it's the same system worldwide. For me the better system would be just inscriptions, but that's not as important as having the same system worldwide. And we know for sure that they will NEVER remove inscriptions, so we most go on from that.
I will agree with any system that is equitable and, most important THE SAME IN ALL CAMPAIGNS. Having different game mechanics in campaigns of the same game create inconsistencies.

I have seen many items that drop only inscribed that are over 250K. So I'm positive that not all of them would stay in 10k.
If items saved by people turned into inscribables at the same time as the drop of further items with the same skin where reduced. Their values would not really 'decrease' but get spread. Instead one person having 1000k, a few people having 200k and a lot of people having 1k, we would end up with Some people having 10k. While some items would decrease in price, that decrease would be individual, since many others would increase. Most people that currently keep items keep them to use them, and people that keep items to sell them should not keep them for more than a month or so. Trades that are not made are trades that do not count. People that keep items to use and like them should not care about them losing value, only about losing the properties or appearance, something I doubt that would happen, and those that keep items 'for shows' (like the Fire vs trolls and flames, XD) would never sell them no matter the price, so it doesn't metter their gold value, only the 'sentimental value', such items are invaluable for them no matter what other say.

Promoting customization it's crucial to prevent items dropping too much due to new items entering the market, though. And.. well... all skins have inscribable versions thanks to our friend the Zaishen Chest just keep track of the Zaishen Chest post and the drop rate research in the wikies and other sites. The list keeps going on and on. Almost no skins are left, and many that haven't drop already in the Zaishen chest do drop in Nightfall or EotN.
Maybe you customize all items, but believe me. Not many people does! Specially when it comes to green items and caster items.
20% damage is nice yeah, but useless when you never wand stuff because you are casting most of the time.
So you should agree that improve and promote customization is crucial for the market. A good economy is one with many trades and people requiring new products. As far as I can tell, people should customize items to use them, just like with armors and the only cash they should recover from items they use should be upgrades, materials and/or merchant gold. That way there will be always market for new items as long as people change weapons once in a while, as old items are removed from the market.
In the earlier times of the game this would be a serious mistake, with so few skins and inherent modifiers, but as the system is like now I could work. And if they added the Xunlai Market, trading would be so fast that 'cutomize to use' could be really a great idea.

Hm... lets see... since color do not shows up in the Weapon-Pinging, different colors isn't necessary, since inscription slots can be seen in trades. If they change the pinging so the weapon color is shown, it could be considered. Adding more sufixes or prefixes to names is absolutely discarded, that would make names too long.
For crafters and collectors it's different, regardless of names being show or not with colors in pings, I would give the crafted and collector items a different name color, to differentiate them from dropped items in trades.

When it comes to collectors with inscriptions, I would remove most inscribed collectors (like collector armors having no insignia slot) but not leaving the slot empty. Just like in Factions collectors the best combination would be Factions array of combinations along with EotN variety in collectors skins. Even with the increase in difficulty to obtain Trophies due to loot scalling, they are still quite easy to get compared to other items, specially since you can easily buy items to others. By yourself may take a week to get 5 wurm trophies, but there are items that may take months dropping. Exceptions would be 'prestige' and really hard to get trophies, Armbraces for Tormented weapons. Those should stay inscribed.
For crafters, I would make only the latter in the game inscribed, and add at least a couple of common skins. If two crafters are inscribed, they should ahve different skins. For example, in Facitions, there could be three inscribed crafters, the one in Divine Path, one in Varsburg armory and one in Leviathan's Pit. For Prophecies I would add three too, one in Droknar's Forge, one in the Granite citadel and one in Marhan's Grotto. Prices for insribed crafter items would cost around 10..25k + materials depending on skin. Non-inscribed crafted items and those with unreplaceable mods (Like those Vanguard weapons with the fixed +20%vsCharr) should stay at 1..5k+materials.

I also though about the golds and drop scalling and insriptions dropping onl in gold items, but I discarded it. In the first days of loot scalling, they included all items, but later on they had to remove the gold items from it. On top of that, wise players can get more cash from 1..10g blues and pruples by salvaging upgrades. I would leave that option for them.
But the thing it's since blues and purples are inside loot scalling and gold are not, making only golds have them solves really nothing. I would change the differences between blues, purples and golds. I would give golds real value by making them different in other ways, like:
* Making them have extra chances of enduring salvages.
* Making them the only ones dyable.
* Makeng them have better customization (blues +10% damage, purples +15% damage, golds +20%)
And things like that.
Weapon upgrade traders would be added also. Specially for PvP, so PvP-only players can mod their tournament rewards and chest rewards.

In Guild Wars 'oldschool' do not exist, it has existed, but vanished. All skill updates affect the entire game, not just the last campaigns owners, for example. You cannot play 'old school' you have always to play as the game is now. We can no longer 'old school' farm, since old school builds no longer are possible. New things are med to fill the gap. It' not like offline games, when you can keep the update you want if you dislike the new ones.When the game is changed, it's change for all, when the system is improved, it's improved for all. That's why the change must be made. It's a leftover unmade change.
Anything but leaving the game unequitable as it is right now.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

There have been 100s of reasonable answers given as to why this is a bad idea. You just feel you are 100% right and everyone who disagrees is stupid.

And with that, you are flaming the people who disagree. Don't act like everyone who supports this idea is a martyr and everyone who disagrees is a bigot, because that's what you really sound like right now.

I laughed at that bolded part. Dictionary.com the word "Hypocrisy ", after looking at 90% of your posts in this thread and others.

And you can inturpret my stand any way you'd like. It'd be one thing if people who were against the idea and have posted so would post an argument that hasn't either been logically reasoned against, or just posted something like "Crap idea /notsigned lulz".

However, most people who disagree are just posting different variations of the same argument over and over, thus making people make points that overlap, and making the entire thing sound idiotic.

Seriously, if I had the time/patience/will to do so, I could take 90% of the against posts and filter them down to the phrase "No, my E-peen will shrink". That's not to say that it's not a large percent of the For votes could be filtered down to "Yes, cheaper is good, because it's easier", but it's a smaller percentage.

~Bunny

I'm not saying you posted spam in other posts, just that one. If you don't have anything new to say, than it's best not to say much at all, especially if it falls under the category of useless, examples being phrases like "This post sucks". When that kind of thing stands alone, it's fair game to label spam.

Pleikki · Feb 17, 2008, 10:06 AM // 10:06

All Drops should be Non inscriable! inscription is The WORST thing that Anet did .. BEcause of it so easy get perfect gold stuff.

Yawgmoth · Feb 17, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Most things you say are acceptable. What I want most it's the same system worldwide. For me the better system would be just inscriptions, but that's not as important as having the same system worldwide. And we know for sure that they will NEVER remove inscriptions, so we most go on from that.
I will agree with any system that is equitable and, most important THE SAME IN ALL CAMPAIGNS. Having different game mechanics in campaigns of the same game create inconsistencies.

The system would require a huge lot of work before being acceptable to be applied worldwide and not hurt any large part of the playerbase. Simple inconsistencies aren't enough of a reason to do that, preserving the value of things people care about is more important.

Quote:

I have seen many items that drop only inscribed that are over 250K. So I'm positive that not all of them would stay in 10k.

I can assure you all of the items that would get affected by this update would drop that low in no time.
You need to look closely at which items that drop only inscribed are expensive... you will see that all of them have very limited sources, they cannot be farmed in large quantities, they don't drop from common mobs, they have very low drop rates. Most often they drop from just one hard to access reward chest... they're cool and rare enough so inscriptions don't make them worthless, for example Silverwing Recurve Bow.

...
As for the suggested changes to gold items and customization I'm not sure if that would change much or worse - make things really awkward like that smaller customization bonus for blues/purples or nondyable nonsense (come on, I like testing dye combinations on a common blue before buying a gold one). Adding some crafters here and there wouldn't change much, wouldn't hurt anyone, but is that even needed?
Maybe make the blues and purples not accept any inscriptions except "Measure for Measure" or the sell value one, but make it possible to salvage from them the one they dropped with. Some purples are good sources of things like max +5^50 inscriptions (maybe even too easy sources), and of course of the MfM ones.

Quote:

In Guild Wars 'oldschool' do not exist, it has existed, but vanished. All skill updates affect the entire game, not just the last campaigns owners, for example. You cannot play 'old school' you have always to play as the game is now. We can no longer 'old school' farm, since old school builds no longer are possible. New things are med to fill the gap. It' not like offline games, when you can keep the update you want if you dislike the new ones.When the game is changed, it's change for all, when the system is improved, it's improved for all. That's why the change must be made. It's a leftover unmade change.
Anything but leaving the game unequitable as it is right now.

Thousands of oldschool players would disagree. Not all 'oldschool' has died as much as you wanted it to.
There's no change that must be made just for equity at all costs. A pointless nerf at the cost of infuriating a large group of loyal playerbase would be a terrible move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

All Drops should be Non inscriable! inscription is The WORST thing that Anet did .. BEcause of it so easy get perfect gold stuff.

Yes! I 100% agree inscription system was the single Worst thing that has happened to Guild Wars since release. They made perfect mean nothing, and killed the uniqueness and coolness of drops.
Unfortunately they're here and won't get removed (would be too good to be true), we can only hope our old fav games will remain protected from them.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

The system would require a huge lot of work before being acceptable to be applied worldwide and not hurt any large part of the playerbase. Simple inconsistencies aren't enough of a reason to do that, preserving the value of things people care about is more important.

I can assure you all of the items that would get affected by this update would drop that low in no time.
You need to look closely at which items that drop only inscribed are expensive... you will see that all of them have very limited sources, they cannot be farmed in large quantities, they don't drop from common mobs, they have very low drop rates. Most often they drop from just one hard to access reward chest... they're cool and rare enough so inscriptions don't make them worthless, for example Silverwing Recurve Bow.

...
As for the suggested changes to gold items and customization I'm not sure if that would change much or worse - make things really awkward like that smaller customization bonus for blues/purples or nondyable nonsense (come on, I like testing dye combinations on a common blue before buying a gold one). Adding some crafters here and there wouldn't change much, wouldn't hurt anyone, but is that even needed?
Maybe make the blues and purples not accept any inscriptions except "Measure for Measure" or the sell value one, but make it possible to salvage from them the one they dropped with. Some purples are good sources of things like max +5^50 inscriptions (maybe even too easy sources), and of course of the MfM ones.

Yes! I 100% agree inscription system was the single Worst thing that has happened to Guild Wars since release. They made perfect mean nothing, and killed the uniqueness and coolness of drops.
Unfortunately they're here and won't get removed (would be too good to be true), we can only hope our old fav games will remain protected from them.

Until the last paragraph, it was one of your better posts.

You're right about the Silverwing Recurve, versus the other drops. Personally, I think there need to be more weapons like this one that drop from these types of chests and can't be farmed. If more existed, people would cry less about the old weapons being devalued.

On your second paragraph, I do the dye thing a lot myself, but, when it comes to white and blue and purple items not accepting inscriptions, seriously, what's the point of that? Having things come on them that are salvagable, but not accepting new ones is totally illogical and could possibly be very hard to code in. Besides, what's the harm of throwing inscriptions on purples or blues? I sometimes throw them on those weapons and give them to my heros until there is a buyer for that inscription. It saves massive storage room.

But on the last paragraph, and the whole thing about protecting value, the fact is that many think and agree, through their own experience that that system of value worked the wrong way. Rarity of drop should be the only value factor, not luck of the draw on a fixed variable. The way it operated in the past was a bad system compared to other games, and many don't see a reason to keep it. Value needs to placed on rarity of drop alone. It's a much more conveniant system, and with the proper tuning, still withholds price value.

Now, I'll agree, currently, there are not enough rare inscribable only weapons. The Silverwing, the Voltiac, and the Eternal are currently some of the highest out there. More weapons like them need to be introduced to make this suggestion totally viable. But when it comes down to it, if this was implemented, the old system of value would lose the 30% of its old liking for the reason that it is in every way inferior to a lot of other drop system and modifying systems used in other games, and the inscribable system.

Many games just use useless items to fill that 1500 ecto top market, which, here, are minipets like the ghostly hero and vizu/kanaxai/panda/polar bear. I haven't seen weapons reach that top notch in a lot of games, and in my opinion, it's a good thing.

It just comes down to this. You can think the old system was good because it worked, or you can say it was bad because it worked for the wrong reasons. I'm for the latter. I respect your opinion, but I still disagree.

R.Shayne · Feb 17, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

A perfect weapon should never have a value of less than 5,000 as that is the standard set by the merchants. If ANET wants to redo the drop system for weapons where Blues, Purples, and Gold no longer have inscriptions and introduce a new color such as orange, I would support it, just don’t change existing weapons that people already have in the inventory. It would be nice to see a new color dropping that people can get excited about.

Kanyatta · Feb 17, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Until the last paragraph, it was one of your better posts.

Should he apologize for posting his opinion?

R.Shayne · Feb 17, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

*Some Crafter and Collector weapons fully inscribable just as they are today.

I would emphasize the word some here. I think crafter that offer unique skins should be the only ones that offer inscribable new class of weapons but at an increased cost similar to the cost of destroyer weapons. Something like Asuran weapons require 5 Rubies, Norn weapons require 10 Sapphires, Vanguard weapon require you to have no taste in skins (last part is a joke but you get the point).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

*Make only some of the rare (gold) drops inscribable, with a different chance depending on the source - lower chance (10-20%) if it's a common mob, higher (maybe 33%) if it's a boss or chest, and 50% for a Reward chest (easier dungeons or Zaishen Chest), 80 or even 100% for Elite Reward Chests (HoH, FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, Slavers) .

Disagree on this part, Gold should not have inscription slots, they should offer the rare skins with a different class of weapons. Example: Vermin still drops Gold celestials but has a chance, very slim chance, say less than 0.05% chance to drop an orange inscribable celestial weapon. I also feel end chest and Z-chest should drop old style gold weapons, but have a chance of 0.75% of dropping an orange inscribable weapon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

*Give those rare inscribable drops a NEW rarity color! They're a completely new and different class of items, they're superior to usual golds (except ones that happened to drop perfect), they deserve a new color (for example dark gold or orange)! Make them differ from the usual golds to avoid confusion, so no noob would cry about not being able to upgrade his gold.

Agree on this part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

*Blues and Purples never inscribable.

I have to add gold to this list too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

*Make loot scaling affect gold items too or at least the inscribable ones. At least in hardmode. Overfarm is bad.

I think loot scaling should affect all weapon classes in easily farmed areas such as Old Ascalon. But some areas should have gold and orange weapons exempt from loot scaling. The IDS farm is one example or the vermin area.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Should he apologize for posting his opinion?

No, I just thought he backed it up better than usual until I hit it.

Yawgmoth · Feb 17, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

On your second paragraph, I do the dye thing a lot myself, but, when it comes to white and blue and purple items not accepting inscriptions, seriously, what's the point of that? Having things come on them that are salvagable, but not accepting new ones is totally illogical and could possibly be very hard to code in. Besides, what's the harm of throwing inscriptions on purples or blues? I sometimes throw them on those weapons and give them to my heros until there is a buyer for that inscription. It saves massive storage room.

It's just wrong that a common blue can be as good as a perfect gold, this system is a complete mess. I use some inscribable blues myself (req.8), I know, I'm cheap, nobody sees the color except me as I'm not selling them. But I feel it's wrong, really wrong.
And I use random golds for storage of those excess 15^50s and stuff, inscribable golds are way too overabundant.

Quote:

But on the last paragraph, and the whole thing about protecting value, the fact is that many think and agree, through their own experience that that system of value worked the wrong way. Rarity of drop should be the only value factor, not luck of the draw on a fixed variable. The way it operated in the past was a bad system compared to other games, and many don't see a reason to keep it. Value needs to placed on rarity of drop alone. It's a much more conveniant system, and with the proper tuning, still withholds price value.

The old system was greatly superior to other games and that was one of the reasons I liked GW from the start. Most other mmos have very simple always fixed stats items only, all drops the same, so you just know there's a 1% chance for that or 10% for another thing but it will always be the same. Even the most uber high end epic l00t is always drop the same, no variety, no uniqueness.

It is a much deeper system when the rarity comes not only from the droprate of a fixed item but also from varying unchangable modifiers on the item.
One of the reasons I play an online rpg game is that I love collecting rare virtual treasures, I love unique goodies. It existed in GW before, but the inscription system almost completely killed that.
I don't play WoW or anything like that because that aspect doesn't exist there, the phat loot is all about grinding a certain instance till you finally get it, and it will always be the same. Totally uncool.

This terrible update would do the same to GW - remove the potential of an unique drop anywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Disagree on this part, Gold should not have inscription slots, they should offer the rare skins with a different class of weapons. Example: Vermin still drops Gold celestials but has a chance, very slim chance, say less than 0.05% chance to drop an orange inscribable celestial weapon. I also feel end chest and Z-chest should drop old style gold weapons, but have a chance of 0.75% of dropping an orange inscribable weapon

I havent said anywhere golds should have insc. slots, only the new color of drops.
But wow. I'm amazed. You're one of the inscription supporters but you agree they should be rare. Even very very rare as in 0.05% chance for the orange celestials - comparing to ~7% chance of a gold 15^50 celestial weapon, close to a chance of a perfect 2 mod shield. And a 0.75% chance for oranges from elite chests, wow, now I feel lame for my very softcore version of the idea.
/applaud
Bravo.
Inscribables done this way wouldn't hurt anything's value, they would be the uber drops, the hot stuff to get, the highest form of the good.
Lovely idea.
Shame that it wouldn't work in todays economy as it's full of millions of common inscribables.

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

There's where cutomiation is needed, to remove and whipe them from the market.

We could also have item decay, but that would be too much against GW concept.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

It's just wrong that a common blue can be as good as a perfect gold, this system is a complete mess. I use some inscribable blues myself (req.8), I know, I'm cheap, nobody sees the color except me as I'm not selling them. But I feel it's wrong, really wrong.
And I use random golds for storage of those excess 15^50s and stuff, inscribable golds are way too overabundant..

So what about Collector/Crafter weapons? Gold is a vanity color, but it doesn't mean they have to be inconveniant, or should be more valued for being so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

The old system was greatly superior to other games and that was one of the reasons I liked GW from the start. Most other mmos have very simple always fixed stats items only, all drops the same, so you just know there's a 1% chance for that or 10% for another thing but it will always be the same. Even the most uber high end epic l00t is always drop the same, no variety, no uniqueness. .

I disagree. While the old system lacked the "uniqueness" of this system, they worked better in my eyes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

It is a much deeper system when the rarity comes not only from the droprate of a fixed item but also from varying unchangable modifiers on the item.
One of the reasons I play an online rpg game is that I love collecting rare virtual treasures, I love unique goodies. It existed in GW before, but the inscription system almost completely killed that.
I don't play WoW or anything like that because that aspect doesn't exist there, the phat loot is all about grinding a certain instance till you finally get it, and it will always be the same. Totally uncool.

This terrible update would do the same to GW - remove the potential of an unique drop anywhere.

It comes down two whether you see it as a good thing or a bad thing. That's all that filters down to and ever will, and anyone who's arguing about this can go around the mulberry bush a thousand times and be no closer to agreement.

It's Red Vs. Yellow now.

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

[...]
It is a much deeper system when the rarity comes not only from the droprate of a fixed item but also from varying unchangable modifiers on the item.
One of the reasons I play an online rpg game is that I love collecting rare virtual treasures, I love unique goodies. It existed in GW before, but the inscription system almost completely killed that.
I don't play WoW or anything like that because that aspect doesn't exist there, the phat loot is all about grinding a certain instance till you finally get it, and it will always be the same. Totally uncool.

Here we end up having nice to work in.
Time required to do things in GW is much, much, much less than in others. And GW contemplates no re-rolls, only but re-builds. You don't have to start a charater over neither change it completely anytime you want to change something. You just change the part you want. It's GW philosophy.

On top of that 'unique' is something that do not fit GW. The 'unique' items are far from unique. Varesh minipets all over the place, boss green drops quite easy to acquire...
GW is a game where anyone can get anything, provided they spend time enough to. But, going back to 'GW time', 'time enough' in GW never means 4..6 months or more.

In GW there are such rarities, but in GW rarity and value is almost always opposed to usefulness.
Do you need? Black dye? No, but it's expensive.
Do you need a cartain skin? No, but they may be more expensive.
Do you need a certain modifier? Yes, depending on your build, there are certain builds that require a +5 energy mod or a +20% enchantment duration.
Because of that, all upgrades and modifiers are part of the 'usefulness' in the game and not part of the 'rarity'.

That's why skin rarity must be increased while decreasing different rarity between items of the same skin. And that's precisely what Inscriptions do. You cannot increase rarity sacrificing usefulness.

It's all about GW philosophy.

Winterclaw · Feb 17, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I voted for number 1.

Nanood · Feb 17, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

When i got my last max fellblade that was perfect in every way except the ability to kake it 15^50 i thought.. Damn i wish every campaign was inscriptionable.

/signed

R.Shayne · Feb 17, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I havent said anywhere golds should have insc. slots, only the new color of drops.
But wow. I'm amazed. You're one of the inscription supporters but you agree they should be rare. Even very very rare as in 0.05% chance for the orange celestials - comparing to ~7% chance of a gold 15^50 celestial weapon, close to a chance of a perfect 2 mod shield. And a 0.75% chance for oranges from elite chests, wow, now I feel lame for my very softcore version of the idea.
/applaud
Bravo.

Your ideal I just added to it. It is really a good ideal that done right would actually improve the market and provide a middle ground that most can agree upon. Even if this is just done in Prophecies and Factions at first it would be a step in the right direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Inscribables done this way wouldn't hurt anything's value, they would be the uber drops, the hot stuff to get, the highest form of the good.
Lovely idea.
Shame that it wouldn't work in todays economy as it's full of millions of common inscribables.

I know I will get flamed for this but if I logged on one day to find all my inscribable gold had suddenly lost there inscription slot I would not be upset in the least, and I have two mules full of req. 9 gold inscribable weapons. I would shrug, like I do when Izzy updates the skills, and go off to farm my super rare weapons.

Kanyatta · Feb 18, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

So what about Collector/Crafter weapons? Gold is a vanity color, but it doesn't mean they have to be inconveniant, or should be more valued for being so.

Umm... No. Going back to the cars analogy:

Just because someone makes a Pontiac Whatever with the same horsepower as a Ferrari, doesn't mean it's going to cost $200,000+, because a Ferrari is going to be more rare, and will be more expensive, and people are going to pay more just for the brand name.

With certain items, the outside counts more than the inside, which makes Gold > Blue.

No matter what anyone says, I am not an e-peener, I have one rare weapon, which is customized, and I bought it for 100k+~ish. Green Urgoz's Longbow, which any noob can pick up for 20k. I saved up for months to get that bow, since I maybe spend 2% of my GW time in PvE, it wasn't easy. Eventually, I got it, but, then Nightfall came out, and so did inscriptions. The Greens market crashed, which made it pointless to try to obtain gold weapons anymore, unless you were looking strictly at the skin, because you could get an exact green replica (minus the skin) for about 20% of the price of the gold weapon. Since greens became super cheap, a good deal of people stopped hunting gold perfect weapons, so, less buyers = higher supply = drop in price.

Weapons will never be the same.

I will never understand how this got Concept of the Now. Something that is about 50/50 sided? There are far better ideas posted here that have 90-95% support, and they didn't get it. I would like that explained, but I doubt I'll get one.

You can't see me · Feb 18, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Umm... No. Going back to the cars analogy:

Just because someone makes a Pontiac Whatever with the same horsepower as a Ferrari, doesn't mean it's going to cost $200,000+, because a Ferrari is going to be more rare, and will be more expensive, and people are going to pay more just for the brand name.

With certain items, the outside counts more than the inside, which makes Gold > Blue.

No matter what anyone says, I am not an e-peener, I have one rare weapon, which is customized, and I bought it for 100k+~ish. Green Urgoz's Longbow, which any noob can pick up for 20k. I saved up for months to get that bow, since I maybe spend 2% of my GW time in PvE, it wasn't easy. Eventually, I got it, but, then Nightfall came out, and so did inscriptions. The Greens market crashed, which made it pointless to try to obtain gold weapons anymore, unless you were looking strictly at the skin, because you could get an exact green replica (minus the skin) for about 20% of the price of the gold weapon. Since greens became super cheap, a good deal of people stopped hunting gold perfect weapons, so, less buyers = higher supply = drop in price.

Weapons will never be the same.

I will never understand how this got Concept of the Now. Something that is about 50/50 sided? There are far better ideas posted here that have 90-95% support, and they didn't get it. I would like that explained, but I doubt I'll get one.

You fail at metaphors... just...don't... you kill it.

And I think you read something wrong. The bulk of your post says you're not an E-peener in argument to me saying that if blues should not be equal to golds, what about crafter weapons?