Curse

Yawgmoth · Feb 15, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Yeah, it's not the skin, but the drop rate of the skin, but the modifier has nothing to do with the skin, any skin may drop with any modifier, so there is no reason to keep that fixing. You don't want to pay more than 1k for an inscribed weapon? Fine, oke, suit yourself, tell so to one selling an inscribed Jitte for 100k+25e. Let's say if will put that price for you.
With inscriptions people can already get things sold for more than 100k.

And another pile of nonsense showing that you don't know much.
"any skin may drop with any modifier" this is wrong - weapons that only have inscribable versions available lack certain mods or mod combinations, there aren't any +armor vs mobtype inscriptions nor +dmg always/-hp or ene regen, just as an example.
And where did I say I wouldn't buy something inscri for 1k or something like that?
Of course there are inscribable rares that are worth more than 100k - that's because they don't drop from common mobs or chests for crying out loud.
And this is one of many reasons why a change discussed here shouldn't be made - many of those rare inscribables would turn into common crap instantly!

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You example with the crystallines is a reason FOR the change, not against it.
Yeah, they are around 50..250k depending on base stats (damage and req). That's just perfect. With the loot scaling, without farming and not spending a single gold coin, you get 250 without farming by playing normally in around 4..5 months. Isn't that good time enough to get a single skin when whe have hundreds of them? It's not that you can get any skin anytime. It still takes time.

People that care about rarity and collecting high end stuff would disagree. There's nothing wrong with having a weapon so obscenely expensive it would be always out of reach of 95% players. They were completely out of my range too, for a long time and I didn't complain, I always knew it's good to have rare and high-end items in game. There are hardcore players too, don't forget about them, and there are some rewards for them. Envious much?

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And imagine PvP with that: "Hey, this guy has a vampiric weapon, put him degen, one free degen pip, yay", "Hey, this another has a -10 armor while attacking, while until he starts to nuke him".
That would be gross. And that's why there are no longer armos skins with the fixed +armor double holy damage property.

wow. And you know nothing about PvP aswell. Why even bring PvP here when it has a complete freedom of looks and stats, to the point where a Flame Artifact can be a protector monk's focus and a Flame Aura (headgear) boosts Water Magic...

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The best example or a rare skin that would be horrible without inscriptions is the The Silverwing bow. Just imagine it... making Frostmaw Burrows... getting to the end after one hour and a half... and ah! You got a Silverwing Bow! Yay! ... but it's +10 damage (while Hexed). You made the hard work, you go to the end and you deserve the reward to be REWARDING. Not merchant fodder or just a skin to show off.

wow again. So you changed your mind and now you'd like the reward for a long hard dungeon to be REWARDING. Exactly like me, wow.
If the weapon skin has only 1 pretty limited and difficult drop source and it's a pretty rare drop from that source it's fine as inscribable, it's value is guaranteed by the rarity and protection from overfarm.
But if that Silverwing Bow dropped from easily farmable mobs or just common chests somewhere - getting exactly the same one from an end dungeon chest would suck! Guess what, making all the drops in FoW inscribable would make the FoW End chest drops exactly the same that the common farmers can produce in multiples, not worthy reward. Same would happen to other achievement reward chest including my favorite HoH chest - a whole range of possible great drops reduced to just a couple.

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It's not like you will awalys get a max req9. The bow may be 13-27 req 13, or even much less. No need to decrease chances even more with a fixed variable property. A couple of months is time enough to get anything. NOT a couple of years.

Maybe you're playing a different game or just farming level 15 mobs but in Hard Mode (this thread is about Hard Mode, right?) 99.9% gold drops are max. and ~20% of them are req.9. It's almost the same for most normal mode areas too...
If there were plenty of nonmaxes dropping from high-end chests the rarity would be preserved even with inscriptions, but they are all max... and for anything other than shields high req don't make the item any worse (/laugh at wammos with 9 in swordsmanship), just cheaper because of lower collector value.

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No item should drop in any game with a drop rate inferior to 0.01%.

in any game? o rly?
An extreme example - the best chance for a Zod rune drop in Diablo2 is mere 0.00000292% (that's just for one specific boss, common mobs get a much lower chance).
Of course D2 shouldn't be compared to GW in any way, that example is only because of the any word.
But even in GW there are mane many things with droprates lower than your 0,01%. Much lower. And I'm not even talking about rarities from non-inscription lands. Everlasting Beetle Juice from Zaishen chest is one in a million drop, but again that's extreme.
Let's choose something seemingly common, a focus inscription +10 Armor (while hexed)! How many level 20-24 would you need to kill to get one drop on average? In normal mode it's hundreds of thousands if not above million to be killed by a 8/8 human party to have one drop for any of the party members. It's 8-10x easier in hardmode but still far beyond your 0,01%.

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It's not exciting getting drops or opening chests in Prophecies in Factions, because you know that when you open that chest you'll get either a crappy gold or a crappier purple that will go directly to the merchant, because you cannot mod it to use the way you want it with you heroes. I don't think 'what it will be'. I just think 'yay, another point for treasure hunter'.

How come I DO find good valuable drops in Tyrian/Canthan chests then? Even during this Canthan New Year while I spent ~3 hours farming some rare ingredients for teh rat I found 2 great drops - A perfect inherent Jade Longbow req.9 (sold instantly) and an AMAZING Holy Rod r10 +15e/-1reg 10%HCT all spells (not for sale).
A lot more excitement in lands with no inscriptions, where the drops aren't just a bunch of separate mods on a skin, bleh.

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When I open a chest in Nightfall or EotN, it's completely different! "Hm... would it be a cute command shield for my paragon, my paragon needs a cute command shield, would it be a hornbow, I could use a hornbow with my ranger... yay! A nice couple of daggers! In some days I'll get it modded nicely for my Assassin!

I agree that if you want to get drops to use and get them fast and easy Nightfall chests are the way to go. It's so easy it's too easy - get a bunch of bad drops and make 1 perfect out of them.
But what if a player doesn't need any of those for own use? Think about treasure hunters that go for the title!
The gold max inscribables are all like perfect, easier to get a ton of req.9s than mods for them all, and fill whole storage characters stupidly fast. They're so abundant that almost nobody buys them anymore, but they're the best drops - nothing better can drop, but they still have to go to the merch...
That's why I chestrun Factions! Almost all the valuable mods are still there (most inscriptions are supercommon/supercheap/unsellable anyway), the crap goes straight to merch and occassional quality drops are easy to sell for good prices so they don't fill whole storage and I don't lose on keys. And the chance for getting an AMAZING unique drop exists and adds a lot of excitement that doesn't exist in the inscription lands. And the only items I'm looking for cannot be reproduced by inscriptions (else I would have them in no time), so I'm not only thinking about selling.
I would really hate if they nerfed my old favorite games.

________

@ You can't see me
Your examples have nothing to do with GW and it's economy. They're completely irrelevant to this discussion. And don't underestimate my knowledge of economics, I didn't find my Masters degree in a bag of cereals.

None of your examples even touch the basic aspects of the GW economy, which is very very simple. There are no workers and employment problems in GW, no companies competing with their products.
GW economy, or rather it's 'weapons' market that's being discussed in this thread is about trading virtual treasures, rare collectibles. Even with a new system that enables people to reproduce those rarities using cheap components this market still thrives. This market and existance of true rare items (opposed to falsified ones that anyone can make) is an issue of top importance to me.
I oppose this change because I don't all the true rares to be only a thing of the past, slowly becoming more and more rare, more and more expensive.

The old system worked perfectly fine and there was no need for a change.

Now, for almost 1 and a half years two systems coexist and they do it surprisingly well. They cater to different parts of the playerbase, both have large groups of supporters and none is strictly better. At this point any change would hurt one of those groups, up to the point of destroying their enjoyment from the game, completely killing a whole aspect of the gameplay.

Why not keep both groups happy?
Why listen to those who are always jealous of a pretty virtual item that someone else got, that would rather crumble whole game economies and ruin the game experience for masses just to get that pwetty item with no effort?

You can't see me · Feb 15, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

I only have two things to say this.

Than where? In a Crackerjack box?

And finally, you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you so fast as ignorant, jealous or a plain idiot that it takes any credibility away from you. If that's all you're going to do, than there is no point in arguing with you, so I will not. I have better uses of time than to yell at a wall.

Milthran- You're defending a good cause. Don't give up. No matter how many E-peeners who fear shrinkage come and tell you you're wrong, don't buy it for a second.

Risus · Feb 15, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Worst idea ever. Been debated thousands of times. Inscribable only in NF and EoTN. Buy inscribable rare skins. Otherwise the value of 15^50 storm bows and chaos axes would drop to maybe 5k because they will be overfarmed as well as every other weapon in the game, cause the already unstable economy to collapse.

Undivine · Feb 15, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

/applaud You can't see me.

I suspect the only people who want the old system preserved are the people who will profit highly from it; in other words, the sellers who have little to do but farm and trade. Is there anyone on these forums who honestly wants to pay 100K + 250 ectos to get his or her desired weapon? If nobody says "aye" then my response to this whole condescending rationale is "boo-hoo."

Those who are willing (not to mention able) to toss hours away farming for such items are arguing to keep control of their market. Nevermind that 100K + whatever ectos was always a ripoff. If inscriptions were in this game from the start and the old system never had a chance to take root, I doubt anyone would worry that they weren't selling their items at such extreme prices. I also doubt anyone would be on these forums suggesting weapon stats should be static.

The economy will crash? No... just the profit you've become used to. Even then, skins will still be rare, silencing bow strings will still be in high demand and low supply, etc. They just won't be worth the highly inflated prices you're used to asking. People will still have to work to get exactly the weapons they want, but at least it will be attainable for the majority of the players. And finally HM won't be crapping out merchant fodder.

By the way, "You've been playing for 5 hours. Please take a break."

Yawgmoth · Feb 15, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

I suspect the only people who want the old system preserved are the people who will profit highly from it; in other words, the sellers who have little to do but farm and trade. Is there anyone on these forums who honestly wants to pay 100K + 250 ectos to get his or her desired weapon? If nobody says "aye" then my response to this whole condescending rationale is "boo-hoo."

For me the only profit from maintaining the good old system is the fun and excitement that comes from being able to find an unique item that cannot just be reporoduced. I enjoy collecting rare goodies. In fact my collection would only rise in value if this terrible update got implemented, but no, no profit is worth ruining the game experience for me.
And yeah, I would pay 100k+250ectos for a weapon if I felt it's worth it and I liked it.

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Those who are willing (not to mention able) to toss hours away farming for such items are arguing to keep control of their market. Nevermind that 100K + whatever ectos was always a ripoff. If inscriptions were in this game from the start and the old system never had a chance to take root, I doubt anyone would worry that they weren't selling their items at such extreme prices. I also doubt anyone would be on these forums suggesting weapon stats should be static.

100k+ectos items weren't a ripoff, that was their real market value, people were paying that prices and they still do, even for some inscribables. They're vanity items for the people who already have their characters outfitted perfectly and all they can spend their money on rarities. Maybe it's hard for you to imagine, but some people make money *much* more efficiently than others.
I played GW for 2 years before inscriptions got introduced, I've never felt the old system needed such a devastating change and when they announced it I already knew how bad for the game it will be. And I was right in my predictions.
Inscriptions weren't in the game since release because the devs really cared about rarity and uniqueness of the rewards in game (read old interviews if you don't believe). I see no reasonable reason why they changed their minds, there were NO complaints about item rarity in PvE, maybe different people made this decision, maybe it's all about $$$ and they just wanted Nightfall drops to be superior. But still they screwed up badly.

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The economy will crash? No... just the profit you've become used to. Even then, skins will still be rare, silencing bow strings will still be in high demand and low supply, etc. They just won't be worth the highly inflated prices you're used to asking. People will still have to work to get exactly the weapons they want, but at least it will be attainable for the majority of the players. And finally HM won't be crapping out merchant fodder.

Well the whole economy won't crash, it's much bigger than that, the materials/runes/dyes/consumables/minipets/event items and even most mods will be completely unaffected. But the value of many rare skins would get totally devastated, a lot of vanity skins now considered high-end or mid-range would be as worthless as a Dead Sword or other Nightfall unsellable crap.

And why do you want to kill the profit of a PvP player that occassionally gets a nice drop from HoH or Zaishen chest? This update would turn 80%+ of those rewards that are still worth something into common overfarmed crap that's just merchant food. And it's not all about profit... there are many other ways for making money. I'm mostly caring about a balanced economy, exciting gameplay with proper valuable rewards and about my old favorite games (Prophecies and Factions) not getting hit by bad and pointless nerfs.

Silencing Bow Strings? zomg! I sold dozens of them straight to the merchant, nobody buys that. They were easy 3k during first few weeks after NF release, but soon after dropped to nothing. This example only demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the market.

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By the way, "You've been playing for 5 hours. Please take a break."

I spend maybe 2-3 hours per WEEK farming things. I'm PvP player that just cares about a healthy economy and likes to be able to get a valuable drop.

Devine [TIGO] · Feb 15, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

/not signed, would kill economy even further
after armbrace scam and mallyx economy cant handle everything being inscribable = low prices on everything

Undivine · Feb 15, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Where do you get to the part where you try to convince me that lower prices are bad?

HawkofStorms · Feb 15, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Where do you get to the part where you try to convince me that lower prices are bad?

The thing is, there is very little to spend in this game. Gold sinks are minimal. Armor, skills, and id/salvage kits (both of which, due to the price hike of iding whites and the salvaging of runes and rare materials technically make you money in the long term).
People with money litterally have nothing to do with it. That is why rare stuff costs a fortune. Why not spend 500k for a single item if you have another 10 million gold sitting around?

You see, the whole "the rich people are controling the market" arguement makes sense. The rich DO control the market in the real world as well. The reason it shouldn't matter though is because the market in game is purely cosmetic. There is no "starving childen in Africa" analogy in GW. You can get max weapons, armor, runes, and enough skills to beat the games with under 30k (less then you'll make just playing through the games). Who cares if the rich controls the market? They should, they are rich for a reason because they understand economics. The market means nothing to "the little man."

MithranArkanere · Feb 15, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

One of the probles some people may have understanding are the concepts of 'time and value' in GW.

Time for Item acquistion (playing 9..12 hours/week):
Up to 1 hour: Fast (Crafters collectors, etc).
1 week: Normal (Common drops and green items).
1 month: Uncommon drops.
2..6 months: Rarest drops.
NOT one or two years, nor 'never unless you buy it or have a lot of luck'.

1g..10k = Small fee for simple/basic service/product. (Normal weapons equipment and armor pieces)
10k..50k = Average price. Normal products. (Max good weapon uncommon skins and prestige armor pieces)
50k..100k = High price. Rare products. (Rarest skins and most expensive prestige sets )
100k..+1000k = Higher Prestige products. (complete Obsidian armor sets or rarest miniatures)
NOT '3000k it's a good price for something'. Those prices require either farming without loot scalling or trade to get cash.
Andyou cannot force anyone to farm to get cash, nor use the slowpoke in-game trade system or any other systems external to the game to get cash.

In a game where 80% of the people has 20k in the storage, you can't pretend everyone to have 1500k, nor you can pretend everyone to farm to buy things.
This is not one of those 'micropayment' games where those that pay get to make a lot of things and those that not are cannor fother so those that pay can PK.
Guild Wars, from the very start, was a game meant to avoid as much as possible mistakes of other games.
With the prices I've listed avobe, the current prices, people can get items and enjoy them normally. With 20 you won't get a max rare Inscribed Storm bow, but with inscriptions worldwide and fixed drops you would be able with 50..100k or so. Is that a bad price? Nope, it's the price that was alwas meat to be.

We already have some titles to treat grind. No need to make some skins only for some farmers and traders. It's a game afterall, meat to play, i'ts not like you cannot make things 'out of the game', like roleplaying or trade in special ways or farma lot or things like that, that's ok as long as you don't fore anyone to it.

Maybe you didn't consider that currently the uniscribed rare drops have such high drop rates comapred to Nightfall and EotN rares because:
- 1. There are much less different skins in the areas they drop in. Just look in the wiki and see the lists. Each campaign almost double the previous in number of skins, plus latter campaigns have scythes, daggers, spears, paragon-linked shields and ritualist-linked caster equipment. It's normal that they have less rarity in droppings, becuase there is less things to drop.
- 2. Since they have to drop with inherent modifiers, it's more probable that they are 'useless' when they drop, so they may have to get increased rates to make possible some drops. Even with drop rates way higher than Nightfall and EotN rare rates, they are still merchant-fodder most of the time. So instead of dropping 0.1% and being crap 99.99% of them, they would drop 0.01% and being cap only 80..90% of them.

Lack of rarity in old campaigns under inscribables is fixed by man ways:
- Adding more skins to old games. Anet made some contests, and since you cannot make Assassins and Ritualists in Nightfall but you can get skills and weapons for them there, it would be just logical to add some drops for all professions in all campaigns. Seriusly, Maguuma needs some skins linked to the place, not just other than 3 green items.
- A rework in the drop tables to update them to the current system, rare skins would have to get their drops reduced, and other skins would enter the lists, spreading th chances for each single skin into more added skins.
It's complete illogical that a Campaign with more regions and more explorables and bigger maps get less skins (only 3 Prophecies shield skins, for example)
- Better customization, rewarding more removing items from the market. So more items get out of the market...
But that's for another threads.

But seriusly, you can't pretend to keep 'rare' an amber wand. Monsters spit those so much that I need only one run in one Echovald explorable to fill the Glittering Dust slot in my storage.

The more important part is that all campaigns must have the same game mechanics. And weapon properties are a game mechanic.

Jetdoc · Feb 15, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Where do you get to the part where you try to convince me that lower prices are bad?

Lower prices simply make the divide between the players with little gold and the uber rich even wider.

Yes, more items would become affordable to those with very little gold, but for those players who want to "climb the ladder" to obtain one of the more expensive items, lower prices can simply be devastating.

Drop of Fear · Feb 15, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

signed 200 times

MithranArkanere · Feb 15, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

[...]Yes, more items would become affordable to those with very little gold, but for those players who want to "climb the ladder" to obtain one of the more expensive items, lower prices can simply be devastating.

They can still get high PvP ranks or 30 maxed titles or fill the HoM (I think there should be a way enable an option so others can select you characters in outposts and visit their HoM), and allow more rare skins and armors in there.
Getting a super-rare drop may be possible once or twice more if you are lucky, but filling the HoM with them...

Global achievements should be more important in GW than a single drop. 'All the things you got', not 'the last thing you have'.

It's the same in the rest of GW:
- Yay! I got Prphecies Guardian.
- So what? I have Legendary Guardian.

- Yay! I have an new Elite?
- So What? I have all.

stretchs · Feb 15, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

I like the idea of having HM inscribables in Prophecies and Factions. Having vaquished both NF and Factions, I really enjoyed NF because you figured to at least get a couple drops worthwhile during the process. While doing factions it was really disappointing how poor the drops were. I understand all the whine mongers that have saved their 15^50 q9 fellblade and e peened it all over. Shit I have a couple, I dont really care, it would make people play hm and actually rediscover areas in the older 2 chapters instead of just doing them for the title grind

ac1inferno · Feb 15, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Should items in all campaigns be inscribable drops?
[x] All drops across all campaigns should be inscribable.
[ ] No change should occur; those campaigns without inscribable drops should remain so.
[ ] All drops across all campaigns should NOT be inscribable.
[ ] None of the above. (Please State)

ManiSan · Feb 15, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

/not signed
For obvious reasons, already debated.

I just dont understand why this thread is a Concept of the Now. Give all skins available to every single casual player? Yeeaaaah ! Turn our stuff into merch trash.

Yawgmoth · Feb 15, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretchs

I like the idea of having HM inscribables in Prophecies and Factions. Having vaquished both NF and Factions, I really enjoyed NF because you figured to at least get a couple drops worthwhile during the process. While doing factions it was really disappointing how poor the drops were. I understand all the whine mongers that have saved their 15^50 q9 fellblade and e peened it all over. Shit I have a couple, I dont really care, it would make people play hm and actually rediscover areas in the older 2 chapters instead of just doing them for the title grind

Unlucky much?
I get better and more valuable drops in Factions than in Nightfall consistently!

God, how people can't get it how the combination of Hard Mode insane golds drop rate and inscriptions is an absolute catastrophy it's beyond all common sense.
What's hard in understanding that when 1 farmer can 'produce' 10-20 gold max inscribable items per hour they all will be worthless? All the best and all equally worthless at the same time. This system is absurdly bad and thankfully it doesn't exist in Prophecies nor Factions. And the inscribable versions of high-end or mid-range Tyrian/Canthan items are well protected from hardmode overfarm, they just cannot be produced in large quantities, and rightfully so.

This change is a very bad idea for the game as a whole, catering only to those who cry after getting several bad drops in a row. I don't cry, I enjoy playing the old campagins knowing that I will get a great drop that will be more than worthwhile (and I do find them). But I do not enjoy the Nightfall system where all the drops are equal, equally worthless, equally boring and lame.

Variety and more available choices make a better game. We got the best variety in coexistance of both item drop systems. It really works. Changing it to just one drop system at this point (no matter which one) would badly hurt a large group of playerbase and would be taking away from them something they liked/loved/just enjoyed.

Please Anet, don't nerf my old favorite games, I say that again. Think of maintaining a healthy economy where items of high value exist and are possible to be found. Think of the fairly large pool of PvP rewards and FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep completion rewards, their value comes from the fact they cannot get overfarmed from common mobs or chests. Look at the economy as a whole, and see there already are plenty of ways of obtaining perfect weaponry of a very large variety with ease and at an incredibly low cost. Remember that having some prestigeous item skins is good as there will always be players valuing them just for their rarity. Think of the large group of people that still enjoy getting oldschool drops, or those that don't want their collections to become worthless because of a single completely unnecessary update... Don't get misguided by the groups of whiners who just want everything easier, give them a finger and they will demand the whole arm... Remember that all this talk is only about the looks, the vanity, not essential needs.

MithranArkanere · Feb 15, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

[...]
Variety and more available choices make a better game. We got the best variety in coexistance of both item drop systems.[...]

Exactly. And what adds more variety? Fixed inherent modifers or equipment upgrades?

If every single item can be modded, every single item can vary more!

I just wish Anet added the Xunlai Market and weapon upgrade traders. Then you'll see how most people would check 'Max stats' and 'Inscribed' filters.

I don't cry after getting some bad drops in a row. I complain that I have a working system while I play in one areas and an outdated system while in others, and so, there is an inconsistency in the system.

This change is one of the most needed updates for the game as a whole, catering the majority of the players that do not thing that farming is the only way to get items and do not usually leave white around because they only get cash by selling golds. I don't cry, I enjoy playing the new campaigns knowing that I may get a great drop once in a while that will be able to use with my characters regardless of its price. But I do not enjoy the old system where the 99.999% of the drops are equal, equally worthless, equally useless and inequitable with the system. Specially shields and offhands, that do not even accept the new existing mods if they have a 'free property slot'.

Having different systems in different campaigns of the same game it's never a good idea. Unification and uniformity is always better. Like it was done already with armors.
Would you make tomes drop only in Prophecies? Or signets of capture being purchaseable only in Factions? Or fissure and underworld scrolls drop only in Nightfall? Of course not.
Would you make the game require one type of armors while in Prophecies areas, other sets while in Factions and others while in Nightfall? No, uh?
Why not? Because it would have no logic, because it's one game with the same system all over the world.
In the same way, it makes no sense that you get Inscribable drops while you are in Crystal Overlook and you don't while you are in The Arid Sea. It would be like having electricity in the house of the Neightbou and having to stik to Gas lamps in your house. Simple irrational.

Even having both kinds of drops in all campaigns would be better than having only on of them in some and the other in the rest. Because it's game mechanic, the system.

Kanyatta · Feb 15, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Time for Item acquistion (playing 9..12 hours/week):
Up to 1 hour: Fast (Crafters collectors, etc).
1 week: Normal (Common drops and green items).
1 month: Uncommon drops.
2..6 months: Rarest drops.
NOT one or two years, nor 'never unless you buy it or have a lot of luck'.

This is basically a complete fallacy. I'm not sure if you're talking about the state of the game now or with this implemented.

If it takes you 1 hour to get something from a collector, you are probably retarded. "Durrrr! How do I press "Craft"?!?!?"

I can spend maybe 45 minutes VwK Farming on my Rt/Me and get 5k, which can pretty much buy you almost any green weapon in the game.

If you have the cash, you can get a gold weapon of any mods you want with the current market within an hour using trade chat, or Guru.

Maybe to farm the cash for a Dwarven Axe or something, it would take a few months, but if you have the cash, maybe a day or so.

So, basically, all this thread would do is make all PvPers poor because, if they did manage to get a rare drop, it would be worthless, because it will be so easy to get one, that the rarest of weapons would be 1k a piece.

How this got to be Concept of the Now, I don't think anyone will ever know. Worst....Idea....Ever.

MithranArkanere · Feb 15, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I don't know you, but even if I ask politely to them, monsters do not give trophies for free. I've tried, really, but this last festival I really tried, but to get ONE kappa trophi I had to kill over 50 of them with a solo farm build.
So... say hello to loot scalling affecting trofies and their regained value... (not like putrid cysts being any harder to get, those things are still all over the place, though). Depending on the trophy, it may even take a whole week. Have you ever tried collect wurm trophies? Those mutant worms are nasty, mean, smell foul, have a lot of health and even more armor and they almost never drop a single thing. That's why I wrote 'up to 1 hour' and not just 'one hour'.

Yeah, you may spend time farming, and Anet is not against farming, but Anet will never make farming 'the way to get things'. We must always think from the 'playing normally' point of view. That is, questing, making missions, making elite quest/missions, vanquishing, opening chests on the way to other things, etc.

And of course, if you have to pay cash to get an item, the time spend getting the cash counts as time spent to get the item.

And again stop the '1k' nonsense. Some inscribed golds are worth more than 10k just for the mods, and some more than 100k just for the skin.

I may exaggerate in some examples to make things easier to understand, but saying that inscriptions make all items cost 1k it's not an exageration, it's just a plain lie.

And PvPers will NEVER be poor:
1. Because Zaishen chest may have any item.
2. Because HoH chest it's the only one where the Ghostly Hero minipet drops.
3. Because once they fill the hall, the only things they may have to pay are runes and upgrades, for tournament rewards. If they get PvE stuff, then they are PvErs.
4. Because even if prices dropped, not only the sell prices would drop, the buy prices would drop, so the cash obtained by selling would be more than enough to get other items.

It doesn't matter if something drops from 1000k to 100k if it drops for everyone. No one gets the 1000k since they can't sell the item for 1000k. That's called 'increased value of money'. I think that it's something good for economies.

ManiSan · Feb 15, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Off-topic:
Back in the days, when i was a kid, games were totally different: we were used to LOSE. Almost each attempt was a defeat. Unless you had some skills, you died miserably hundreds times.
Now its totally different: ppl keep "winning" at games.
Thus removing the challenge, the taste of victory, the feeling of beeing "good".

So? I dont think that game designers should listen the majority of players. They just dont know what a game is. They want some minesweep where defeat could happends only with bad luck. Clic and loot. They dont want to be told by a perfect machine that they suck. In the past it was obvious: you beat the game in one life ? You're great. You cant beat the game with your 3 lives ? You suck.

Why am I saying that ? Because most ppl enjoy playing the games made by old school designers. Of course they whine about this or this, but they dont have a clear idea of why it has been implemented. The reason: it is the essence of the game.

ps: a good game... for who ? Games companies doesnt have the same point of view as players, too good game = players satisfied for a long time = lost of cash. meh. sry for beeing a retard I cant keep my mouth shut