Curse

Brian the Gladiator · Oct 28, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Balthazar's faction is acquired when you kill an opponent and win in PvP battles. The max Balthazar's faction you can acquire is increased when you achieve ranks in titles which are acquired in PvP battles. This all makes sense right?

Kurzick/Luxon faction is acquired when you kill an opponent and win in Alliance Battles. The max Kurzick/Luxon faction you can acquire is not increased when you achieve ranks in the friend of the Kurzicks/Luxons title track. This makes absolutely no sense.

I propose that A-net increases your max kurzick faction for every rank in friend of the kurzicks title track. Likewise, A-net should increase the max Luxon faction for every rank in the friend of the Luxons title track.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

I do realize you can acquire Kurzick/Luxon faction outside of Alliance Battles, but this is irrelevant. Your rank in the title should impact how much faction you can hold no matter the means of retrieving it.

jaximus · Oct 28, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

thing here is, with balth faction you go on streaks, ra streaks, ta streaks, and ha streaks. a team that holds halls all day and really rack up faction where the increased holding capacity is needed. with the kurz/lux title tracks, you are sent back to an outpost containing the npc to donate your faction after each battle. therefore you dont need to be able to hold as much.

Shadowmoon · Oct 28, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Linsey has already mentioned that the cap needs to be raised in title update on her talk page last month, so i assume it will probably be done on next weeks build. Also this has been suggested b4. Wait til next weeks build b4 bringing up this issue again, if it is still an issue.

God of Killing · Oct 28, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Though I understand the argument for increasing the faction cap (I too often find it annoying to constantly go spend faction so that I don't miss any), I have to disagree with the idea to do so unless the cap is limited to, at most, 20k. My reason for this would be faction dumping. I remember back when my guild was part of the TC alliance and one of the tricks we would do was hold any faction we had rather than cash it in when nearing the daily loss.

This allowed us to all dump faction immediately following the loss so that we could quickly shoot ahead of alliances that were hit hardest by the loss. If people are able to store 40, 50, 60k worth of faction on an account, fighting over town control would become ugly (yes I understand Factions is a campaign and an expansion ago, but town control matters to some people).

Lets assume you are the leader of a strong Alliance and my guild consists of 50 people who all have a cap of 30k but never really farm much, we just all saved it. In one day my guild could go from 1 faction to 1.5mil faction. Suddenly your alliance might kick a guild with only 800,000 faction to let our guild in. My guild gets in, uses town control to buy thousands of cheap lockpicks, id kits, salvage kits, and never farms faction for you. Sure after a week we get kicked, but we got what we wanted, you didn't, and neither did the guild who got kicked for us.

Lorinda · Oct 28, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

It has been suggested before together with the placement of a Xunlai Agent and Faction person inside the AB battle waiting rooms.
(yes, those waiting places didnt have any of the *normal* town NPC's)

I highly doubt they will increase the faction because they put some NPC's in there.
Besides that, i dont really see a point.
But i dont mind having a bigger faction cap on both the kurzick and luxon.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 28, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Balthazar's faction is acquired when you kill an opponent and win in PvP battles. The max Balthazar's faction you can acquire is increased when you achieve ranks in titles which are acquired in PvP battles. This all makes sense right?

Kurzick/Luxon faction is acquired when you kill an opponent and win in Alliance Battles. The max Kurzick/Luxon faction you can acquire is not increased when you achieve ranks in the friend of the Kurzicks/Luxons title track. This makes absolutely no sense.

I propose that A-net increases your max kurzick faction for every rank in friend of the kurzicks title track. Likewise, A-net should increase the max Luxon faction for every rank in the friend of the Luxons title track.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

I do realize you can acquire Kurzick/Luxon faction outside of Alliance Battles, but this is irrelevant. Your rank in the title should impact how much faction you can hold no matter the means of retrieving it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda

It has been suggested before together with the placement of a Xunlai Agent and Faction person inside the AB battle waiting rooms.
(yes, those waiting places didnt have any of the *normal* town NPC's)

I highly doubt they will increase the faction because they put some NPC's in there.
Besides that, i dont really see a point.
But i dont mind having a bigger faction cap on both the kurzick and luxon.

As stated, Linsey said she will be increasing the faction cap for the Kurzick/Luxon titles with the Title Update coming *hopefully* next week.

What IS needed, is Tolkano in the AB and FA/JQ places (yes, JQ is empty, but it still deserves ANet love).

Richardt · Oct 28, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

What IS needed, is Tolkano in the AB and FA/JQ places (yes, JQ is empty, but it still deserves ANet love).

Oh dear god yes! By all means add Tolkano-I'm tired of waiting for guild/alliance people to go grab a Z-Key "real quick".

Oh and adding more capacity for holding Kurz/Lux faction is nice, but not really needed.

HawkofStorms · Oct 28, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by God of Killing

Though I understand the argument for increasing the faction cap (I too often find it annoying to constantly go spend faction so that I don't miss any), I have to disagree with the idea to do so unless the cap is limited to, at most, 20k. My reason for this would be faction dumping. I remember back when my guild was part of the TC alliance and one of the tricks we would do was hold any faction we had rather than cash it in when nearing the daily loss.

This allowed us to all dump faction immediately following the loss so that we could quickly shoot ahead of alliances that were hit hardest by the loss. If people are able to store 40, 50, 60k worth of faction on an account, fighting over town control would become ugly (yes I understand Factions is a campaign and an expansion ago, but town control matters to some people).

Lets assume you are the leader of a strong Alliance and my guild consists of 50 people who all have a cap of 30k but never really farm much, we just all saved it. In one day my guild could go from 1 faction to 1.5mil faction. Suddenly your alliance might kick a guild with only 800,000 faction to let our guild in. My guild gets in, uses town control to buy thousands of cheap lockpicks, id kits, salvage kits, and never farms faction for you. Sure after a week we get kicked, but we got what we wanted, you didn't, and neither did the guild who got kicked for us.

BINGO.
Faction contributed to your guild goes down by 10% a day. Faction on your character stays constant. Increasing the title cap based on the level of your title is bad because
a) it will encourage people to store up faction and dump it all at once to gain a town
b) lead to FFF guild's discriminating between people who have a higher Kur/Lux rank already who can hold more faction.

However, that being said... Lindsey has already said they plan on increasing the cap in 2 weeks. Hopefully they either a) aren't increasing the cap by a significant amount or b) increasing it by the same amount for everybody and not tieing it to a title so it doesn't negatively impact anybody unfairly.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 28, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

b) lead to FFF guild's discriminating between people who have a higher Kur/Lux rank already who can hold more faction.

Linsey said that after the title update, FFF would be the harder way to get faction. So if faction becomes that easy to get, then this would only be an issue for a few months, then go back to normal. Besides, all the alliances that own towns will still own those towns, and those that can't get a good amount of faction but are in those alliances, wouldn't be kicked right off the bat.

There will be flaws, but imo the whole town thing needs a rework anyways (along with the Aspenwood Gate and Jade Flats outposts being able to be owned, they have the area anyways.).

Initially, with the towns, nothing will change in terms of what guilds are where that wouldn't change anyways. After a while, new guilds might start popping up owning towns, but that would happen anyways as well. Only difference would be an even higher amount of faction on the towns.

Having a higher faction cap for Kurzick/Luxon wouldn't change much tbh because it would be a retrospective change. New guilds get faction faster, existing guilds get faction even faster. The new guilds which would end up in alliances get there at the same pace because guilds who own town wouldn't change much in how much they get faction in comparison to the new guilds. (as new guilds are usually slower unless they have heavy AB/HFFFers).

Anyways, how i hope the faction cap will be is 1k per rank, then 5k for the last two (ending with 30k). No need to have 70k at the end (which would be 5k per rank). 30k is enough.

ac1inferno · Oct 28, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I think it should increase also, just to keep consistency with the other type of faction, Balthazar. I always wondered why it didn't.

jaximus · Oct 28, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

I always wondered why it didn't.

refer to post #2

and for fff, this wasnt meant to be a main source of faction gain. ab was because factions was meant to be a gateway from pve to pvp. this was for people who wanted the title and didnt want to deal with people in pvp. they could get their title with pve. anet would not have put fff in if they had known what it would become. but they found out too late and it was too large of a part of the game to change without reworking the title, hence the adjustments coming soon.

ac1inferno · Oct 28, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

refer to post #2.

Makes sense, but it just doesn't seem right to me when compared to Balthazar faction because I like things consistent and symmetrical.

HawkofStorms · Oct 29, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Linsey said that after the title update, FFF would be the harder way to get faction. So if faction becomes that easy to get, then this would only be an issue for a few months, then go back to normal. Besides, all the alliances that own towns will still own those towns, and those that can't get a good amount of faction but are in those alliances, wouldn't be kicked right off the bat.

There will be flaws, but imo the whole town thing needs a rework anyways (along with the Aspenwood Gate and Jade Flats outposts being able to be owned, they have the area anyways.).

Initially, with the towns, nothing will change in terms of what guilds are where that wouldn't change anyways. After a while, new guilds might start popping up owning towns, but that would happen anyways as well. Only difference would be an even higher amount of faction on the towns.

Having a higher faction cap for Kurzick/Luxon wouldn't change much tbh because it would be a retrospective change. New guilds get faction faster, existing guilds get faction even faster. The new guilds which would end up in alliances get there at the same pace because guilds who own town wouldn't change much in how much they get faction in comparison to the new guilds. (as new guilds are usually slower unless they have heavy AB/HFFFers).

Anyways, how i hope the faction cap will be is 1k per rank, then 5k for the last two (ending with 30k). No need to have 70k at the end (which would be 5k per rank). 30k is enough.

Its not about gaining points "faster" but about gaining points in bigger clumps.

Gargle Blaster · Oct 29, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by God of Killing

Though I understand the argument for increasing the faction cap (I too often find it annoying to constantly go spend faction so that I don't miss any), I have to disagree with the idea to do so unless the cap is limited to, at most, 20k. My reason for this would be faction dumping. I remember back when my guild was part of the TC alliance and one of the tricks we would do was hold any faction we had rather than cash it in when nearing the daily loss.

This allowed us to all dump faction immediately following the loss so that we could quickly shoot ahead of alliances that were hit hardest by the loss. If people are able to store 40, 50, 60k worth of faction on an account, fighting over town control would become ugly (yes I understand Factions is a campaign and an expansion ago, but town control matters to some people).

Lets assume you are the leader of a strong Alliance and my guild consists of 50 people who all have a cap of 30k but never really farm much, we just all saved it. In one day my guild could go from 1 faction to 1.5mil faction. Suddenly your alliance might kick a guild with only 800,000 faction to let our guild in. My guild gets in, uses town control to buy thousands of cheap lockpicks, id kits, salvage kits, and never farms faction for you. Sure after a week we get kicked, but we got what we wanted, you didn't, and neither did the guild who got kicked for us.

i disagree with you for the exact same reason you give... i think there should be more diversity in who controls towns. a chance for more people to have access to lower prices is good not bad.

MithranArkanere · Oct 29, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

If an increase in cap is made, it should be THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
NEVER related to rank.

Why?
1. You don't capture outposts with Balthazar faction, only with Canthan Faction. So you can't make them work the same, they are not the same. Balthazar faction affects only the player, while Canthan faction affect others.
2. Faction in people's Faction bars do not fade over time, while faction given to alliances do.

With a higher cap the higher the rank, those that have more rank have more chances to get cities, since they can give their gilds just enough faction to get an outpost, and then save the rest in their characters bars, where it won't fade.

If everyone has the same cap, everyone can save the same chances and just those that get more points get more chances. If those with higher rank have more rank, new players with lower ranks have less chances to get an outpost, since they can't save as many remaining points as those with higher rank once they get a town, which is wrong.

JASON626 · Oct 29, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

if its 20k-30k it should be alright. Mainly needed when you have double faction gain weekends.

And yes put tolkano in these areas!

Shadowmoon · Oct 29, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

"Like I said before, to make all these change and NOT raise the faction cap somehow, would be ridiculous. - Linsey talk 18:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC) "

/closethread
not point in discussing, already has been said b4, and it is being added in Nov's build