Curse

A11Eur0 · Oct 30, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

sins arent tanks, sins shouldnt block

Sins are physical melee fighters. Yes, they should block, or be able to block. You don't need to "tank" to take advantage of blocking. Blocking takes pressure off of your healer/protter in the form of damage self-abatement.

From what you said, you're saying Warriors should block because they're Tanks. Warriors do much better in a group dealing damage than tanking. Warriors who merely tank I feel are a waste of a group slot.A character which can absorb a damage spike and still deal significant damage is more valuable than a character who can deal a crapload of damage every 30 seconds but dies if you look at him wrong, or takes all the damage in the world but doesn't have any way of dealing significant damage when the group needs him to.

zwei2stein · Oct 30, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Okay, theorycraft:

Glads defense should not depend on foe to be stupid to do anything:

"Gladiators defense: for 20 seconds you have 75% chance to block and deal X..X piercing damage to foe attacking. Lasts for 10 blocks. When gladiators defence ends one adjacent foe suffers X..X piercing damage for each seccond it was active. If Gladiators defense lasted its full duration foes in area suffer bleeding for 20 seconds and one foe in area suffers deep wound for 5 seconds."

Obvious dilemma: let it last full duration and you get nasty spike on random target along with covered DW. Or you can attack him and convert that spike to manageable pressure. Or you can just snare him. But point is that you can no longer ignore him.

Smart players can also use its ending effect as spike assist with cancel stance (but wouldn't be able to get DW/Bleed effect).

(yes, it would be abuseable by someone activating it before skirmish. /concept bashing care )

Trylo · Oct 30, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

warriors are the last class anyone should be thinking about touching.

jaximus · Oct 31, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

From what you said, you're saying Warriors should block because they're Tanks. Warriors do much better in a group dealing damage than tanking. Warriors who merely tank I feel are a waste of a group slot.A character which can absorb a damage spike and still deal significant damage is more valuable than a character who can deal a crapload of damage every 30 seconds but dies if you look at him wrong, or takes all the damage in the world but doesn't have any way of dealing significant damage when the group needs him to.

have you ever played warrior? if you cant do both you shouldnt be playing warrior. people want things easy and thats why permas are the new 'tank.'

sins are designed as a hit and run fighter, hence the lower AL than a warrior. the whole idea of classes is so each has strengths and weaknesses. with the advent of pve only skills and the norn blessings, classes merged together, this isnt what GW is about so why make all classes strong for everything. its sad people think they way they do.

A11Eur0 · Oct 31, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

have you ever played warrior? if you cant do both you shouldnt be playing warrior. people want things easy and thats why permas are the new 'tank.'

sins are designed as a hit and run fighter, hence the lower AL than a warrior. the whole idea of classes is so each has strengths and weaknesses. with the advent of pve only skills and the norn blessings, classes merged together, this isnt what GW is about so why make all classes strong for everything. its sad people think they way they do.

3.5 years playing warrior. Read my post again. Idiot.

IronSheik · Oct 31, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

sins are designed as a hit and run fighter.

Then why does FB exist, why is there crit defense, why sin's remedy, why self heals, Get Real, they can spike, they can pressure, they can "Tank".

Owik Gall · Oct 31, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Ok guys, I'm about to throw in my ten cents here and I'm attempting to make it a good one.

First off, sins and warriors can have multiple functions. They don't have to just hit and run, or run in and tank. That's just the preferred method, which I admit they do work. People just need to use a little more variety and change this a little with their class.

Now, back to the topic. GD IS a good skill already because it is balanced. You have an elite block stance that hits back melee. It's duration being 1/3 of the recharge further proves that it is well balanced. It's only the pressure of other builds and situations that down grades the use of the skill. I bet if used in a well concentrated build with a well concentrated team it can work. Overall it's fairly decent with regards that nothing should be close to overpowered. If this helps, think of it as CB worthy.

For those who insists that FB and GD shouldn't be compared, I ask that you look at any one of those skills in wiki and then you'll see the other in the related skills section. That said, GD and FB are a bit similar, but accomplish their effect differently than the other.

FB is also good where it is. If it is taken down to 50% blocking then there's no use for it because an assassin player would want to risk killing enemy before getting killed rather then depend on a blocking skill of 50% that hinders a lot of offensive skills. In other words, 50% blocking is below the limits of usefulness for this skill. It already makes it so the user can't use any other stance and must be attacking for the effect to work. Sure, it lasts longer than GD, but the long casting time still leaves a bit of pressure. For example the user needs to switch a stance to run faster, but has to risk waiting for FB to fully charge. FB charges in 30 seconds, which by the way is how long GB takes also.

Take these factors to mind with a second thought about requesting either one of those skills to change.

P.S.
If I have to change any one of those skills I'd just make GB last as long as FB.

Darksun · Oct 31, 2008, 04:36 AM // 04:36

uhhh.. Sins & Warriors are completely different..
If a Sin gets hit he takes more damage & generally has less health to absorb it. The whole point is that Sins survive by NOT getting hit. Warriors Absorb damage.

jaximus · Oct 31, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

3.5 years of playing...Idiot.

prolly a w/mo with mending amirite?

A11Eur0 · Oct 31, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

prolly a w/mo with mending amirite?

Oh how original an insult that was...do you write your own stuff?

Again: read my post. Idiot. the whole thing was about the ability to both deal and absorb/mitigate damage being present for both Assassins and Warriors. Just that with warrior's it's inherent through the +30(vs physical) armor, and with the sin it's through blocking/self healing/armor boosting skills. I won't even mention Warrior's tactics line...really only useful in specialty builds in specialty areas. Though i do on occasion enjoy laughing at luxon sins with my riposte/GD build in AB.

jaximus · Oct 31, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

im gonna make the assumption its people like you A11Eur0 that made sins the beaten stepchild of the pve world until permas came around. the warriors tactics line had a good run. but sadly blocking in the modern gw can hurt more than it helps. skills like rigor mortis, expose defenses, and the incredibly powerful but underused defile defenses punish blocking and leave you vulnerable. sins are especially vulnerable because many of their buffs are easily strippable enchants. warriors > sins, enough said

Shasgaliel · Oct 31, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind fire and ice

Both skills are bad,neither needs a buff,they wouldnt effect any one if they were removed from the game honestly,tactics is never used by warriors,and monks wont use an elite blocking stance.

I guess you have not seen tactics based solo farming builds for warriors? I use GD often on my farming warrior and I would not mind reducing recharge rate for this skill. I would be unhappy if it was removed from the game. I have to admit I will not use tactics at all playing pvp but in pve it is still useful and GD is really nice elite to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Idiot.

I do not think that calling someone names makes any of your arguments stronger...

Zodiac Meteor · Nov 03, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

/signed

Glads D is being used more than Flashing Blades, thats saying something.

Chocobo1 · Nov 03, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Why does everyone say Warriors don't need to be touched? PvP wise they are pretty alright, but PvE they need something to compare to the tanking ability of Shadow Form.

Jbrown · Nov 03, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Why does everyone say Warriors don't need to be touched? PvP wise they are pretty alright, but PvE they need something to compare to the tanking ability of Shadow Form.

Pretty sure Defy Pain can mitigate far more damage than Glads Defense will ever be able to not to mention you can keep it up the whole time AND never have to spec into the terri-badness that tactics is. Warriors are made for big damage, not to sit there and say "lulz, i am doing 35 damage to you."

Azza · Nov 03, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

The reason why Glad's got nothing is because the only people who look at Tactics anymore are monks.

Still, I have no problem with it getting a little more love. Personally my choice would be #5, similar to Warrior's Endurance being switched to a skill.

/signed

my son uses Tactics alot, and he play Warrior(30 maxed titles now)

Warriors who dont use tactics, should!!, many skills in there to make tanking pleasantly easy/survivable without heavy healing or any bonds/enchantments.

but on the subject at Hand

/signed

but Dwarven Stability causes it to last Longer(dont know any 1 who uses gladiators defense in PvP)

but a good Upgrade would be to increase its Duration and change it to a skill, and have it so u cant be the target of spells. or atleast decrease the recharge time instead of increasing Duration.

Tyla · Nov 03, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Why does everyone say Warriors don't need to be touched? PvP wise they are pretty alright, but PvE they need something to compare to the tanking ability of Shadow Form.

No, Shadow Form needs a nerf.

Destro Maniak · Nov 04, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

I think that people should GRIND snowman dungeon and get r10 deldrimor to use 20sec gladiaor defence with dvarwen stability

The Meth · Nov 04, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

lol, tanks.

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