Curse

upier · Dec 07, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Rit's are not MM replacements. you seem to forget that spirits can do more then minion's, minion's only attack. spirit's heal, protect, buf, debuf and even attack. I'm also talking about Nature rituals.
5x life is insane, it would be nerfed like hell. All those non attack spirit's would be changed. I don't like to see that.
Just raise Level for everything you create.
Higher AL means less damage, but sure you know that.

Like I said:
Just add a "The party can only have one spirit of this kind active within spirit range." to the problematic spirits' descriptions.
And in PvP - this can be added to all spirits' descriptions.

Minions can be used as a wall, you can abuse Death Nova, they attack. I'd run spirits outside of fun builds when a spirit spammer could do as much for the party as a MM.

(Also I was talking about Binding Rituals all the time. Nature Rituals do not concern me.)

Yes, higher AL would mean less damage - but take a HM dervish/AoE ele and they'll still all get wiped out with one attack. Especially with Summon Spirits which trashes smart placement by transporting them all into one location.

spirit of defeat · Dec 08, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Like I said:
Just add a "The party can only have one spirit of this kind active within spirit range." to the problematic spirits' descriptions.
And in PvP - this can be added to all spirits' descriptions.

Minions can be used as a wall, you can abuse Death Nova, they attack. I'd run spirits outside of fun builds when a spirit spammer could do as much for the party as a MM.

(Also I was talking about Binding Rituals all the time. Nature Rituals do not concern me.)

Yes, higher AL would mean less damage - but take a HM dervish/AoE ele and they'll still all get wiped out with one attack. Especially with Summon Spirits which trashes smart placement by transporting them all into one location.

Your descriptions renders SP useless unless you go offense spirit spam.
Not what I call a fix.
And copies will still all die by a "HM dervish/AoE ele"
you need Summon Spirits also with your idea.

Higher LV means Higher AL and higher health. Use full also as a MM And fas more easy to balance.

upier · Dec 08, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Your descriptions renders SP useless unless you go offense spirit spam.
Not what I call a fix.
And copies will still all die by a "HM dervish/AoE ele"
you need Summon Spirits also with your idea.

That would be the point. We'd just buff the things that work. That's why I don't agree with things like "faster casting times for spirits". Spirits currently do not work - so there is no point in making them activate faster.
Yes, they'd still all die from that one AoE attack. There is not much you can do about that. But if something that is quite common completely negates the buff we applied - then what's the point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Higher LV means Higher AL and higher health. Use full also as a MM And fas more easy to balance.

With the system we have now - that means spirits would have some some additional 100 or 150 hp bringing their total to 300-400. The AL would be around 60.
If the point is to put Spawning onto the map - then this doesn't do it.
It is a bonus - but nobody will bother investing into it because other options will still be better.

spirit of defeat · Dec 08, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That would be the point. We'd just buff the things that work. That's why I don't agree with things like "faster casting times for spirits". Spirits currently do not work - so there is no point in making them activate faster.
Yes, they'd still all die from that one AoE attack. There is not much you can do about that. But if something that is quite common completely negates the buff we applied - then what's the point?

I'm also not for fast cast, one point we agree.
And we wouldn't buff [Shelter][union][displacement]because copys of those wouldn't work. Heger levels would keep them alive longer.

Quote:

With the system we have now - that means spirits would have some some additional 100 or 150 hp bringing their total to 300-400. The AL would be around 60.
If the point is to put Spawning onto the map - then this doesn't do it.
It is a bonus - but nobody will bother investing into it because other options will still be better.

An extra attack force that will last at least some time. The Whole down side of spirit right now is that they die too quick. Just fix this makes spamming worth it.

Completely other idea. Make SP 'unchain' spirit's meaning make them mobile.
For balance spirits always stay in earshot. Or else they die.

upier · Dec 09, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

I'm also not for fast cast, one point we agree.
And we wouldn't buff [Shelter][union][displacement]because copys of those wouldn't work. Heger levels would keep them alive longer.
An extra attack force that will last at least some time. The Whole down side of spirit right now is that they die too quick. Just fix this makes spamming worth it.

Higher levels would do that. Just not the levels that are doable.
When SP gives a bonus of some 150hp - that means that the spirit that loses 60hp per hit will last 2 additional hits. A 25 energy, 5 sec casting prot that dies after 7 hits instead of 5? What we'd need to look at is ... 15 or 20 hits. More even when you have PvE HM casters triggering the effect by simple wanding!

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Completely other idea. Make SP 'unchain' spirit's meaning make them mobile.
For balance spirits always stay in earshot. Or else they die.

Spirits would still be bad - they'd just move around a bit.

What we want is pretty much something overpowered to happen to SP - otherwise we won't care for it.

spirit of defeat · Dec 09, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Higher levels would do that. Just not the levels that are doable.
When SP gives a bonus of some 150hp - that means that the spirit that loses 60hp per hit will last 2 additional hits. A 25 energy, 5 sec casting prot that dies after 7 hits instead of 5? What we'd need to look at is ... 15 or 20 hits. More even when you have PvE HM casters triggering the effect by simple wanding!

Your idea doesn't help with this :S

Quote:

What we want is pretty much something overpowered to happen to SP - otherwise we won't care for it.

Wanting something overpowered isn't realistic.....

upier · Dec 09, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Your idea doesn't help with this :S

Of course it doesn't.
It leaves things that can not be fixed to die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Wanting something overpowered isn't realistic.....

SP is shit.
Thus it's not causing problems.
So they'd need to be insane to go around changing it.

Daisuko · Dec 10, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

As far as SP is concerned, I still think, based on the name of the skill, it should revolve around spirits/minions. Possibly; for every 3 ranks, cast spirits/minions 10% faster? at 15+ spawning that would halve casting time of spirits/minions respectively.

Furthermore; Speaking of minions, Malign Intervention should be changed to register that the minion was created by you, although remain masterless. This will further encourage Rit MM's in PvE By allowing this hex to trigger healing/damage from spirit's gift/explosive growth.

Lhim · Dec 10, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

I don't think casting time is the main issue. Although I think there is only one crappy skill that affects it. The bigger problem is that foes only have so much as to sneeze at spirits and they'll die. For defensive spirits it's even worse. Their life expectancy is a few seconds. And I'm not sure, but I believe minions trigger the effects as well.

isamu kurosawa · Dec 10, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

IMO there is not much that can be done to spawning power without it being an immitation of another primary. Well, apart from giving it an en storage style system for health but giving Rts hore HP would cause too many problems.

What i'd like to see is a general buff to Rt primaries. Change skills to have better stats at primary breakpoints and lower stats at <12.

Actually, a possibility would be to have spawning power act as a +1 to all Rt attributes for every 5 points or so to pronmote hybrid Rt primaries.

As it stands Rt spells are too effective at 9-12 spec to warrent a Rt primary over a N/Rt most fo the time. The problem is fixing that issue while not nerfing Hybrid Rt builds.

Daisuko · Dec 11, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by deank81

I don't think casting time is the main issue. Although I think there is only one crappy skill that affects it. The bigger problem is that foes only have so much as to sneeze at spirits and they'll die. For defensive spirits it's even worse. Their life expectancy is a few seconds. And I'm not sure, but I believe minions trigger the effects as well.

Minions do trigger the effects, however malign intervention does not. I belive it should. :P Also, the skill you're thinking of must be Soul Twisting. 66% faster cast time and instant recharge (one spirit) condition : kill a spirit.

I do agree that casting time is not the main issue, but it is a rather large hinderance. Possibly, rather than increase casting time; increase the armor of created minions/spirits by 5 for every 3 ranks of spawning power? +20 armor to reduce damage they take by 25% from armor-respecting sources.