Curse

emuking · Nov 13, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

This thread's purpose is to have Decapitate changed functionally so that it becomes a useful skill and remains balanced. I do not want to see all axe warriors running Decapitate, but would rather have it as another option to run on the axe bar. Someone told me that there is no need to fix skills that aren't imbalancing the game (for exaple, ED on a ranger was too strong so it was tweaked just a bit). I want Decapitate to become another option for axe warrior's simply because eviscerate is the only axe elite that can be used well. Yes I am aware of cleave and coward axe warrriors, but why not add to it. I believe this is the appropriate place to post this thread

If you switch out evicerate for decapitate in the standard w/e axe build, you will quickly realize that they aren't equals. Using 14 axe mastery, decap hits +47 (19 sec deep wound) and evicerate hits +29 (19 sec deep wound). It is simply a matter of damage. Evicerate does 18 less damage than decapitate and only has a chance of critical damage. Is that worth all your energy and adrenaline to do 18 more? The critical damage bonus guarantee is nice, but you will be dropping 2 times for evicerate chains than decapitate because of the adrenaline and energy loss. Overall, Evicerate is therefore better for pressure.

As far as spiking goes, yes decapitate hits a harder as an elite, but as many real warriors know, you need a follow up for the KO. The w/d idea is nice but you have to sac points into wind prayers which i don't think is as good as the evicerate build.

Okay there is a lot of things I can talk about for decapitate and why it is ineffective and why even though its spike damage is greater, evicerate still takes the cake.

I believe Decapitate and Evicerate should be similar to each other in the way that body blow and executioners strike are similiar. My idea is flawed probably because I have homework and am not focusing purely on fixing the skill but i believe something like this may work. Keep in mind when balancing a skill, I cannot stress this enough, you must focus on every aspect of PvP, NOT just HA, GvG, RA, AB and TA but levels of skill in those categories. You must consider gimmicks, Overpowered abilities and harmony with other skills. This is one reason why i hate when people attempt to change 20 skills in a single post because no way can you do 20 of these with the other skills alone." If you are going to suggest a skill change do it one at a time. The developers are very slow and careful when they update skills like this because they realize too much change at once will lead to a situation that you overlooked. Remember WoTA sins in that one big update? A/R A/D A/P.... etc you get it.

remember:

Evicerate: Elite Axe Attack. If Eviscerate hits, you strike for +1...25...31 damage and inflict a Deep Wound, lowering your target's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17...20 seconds. (8 adren)

My idea for Decapitate:

Decapitate: Elite Axe Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +3...14...17 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds. If you strike a knocked down foe, you strike for an additional 3...14...17 damage. (8 adren)

I took into consideration exact damage and adrenaline cost as well.

Instead of discussing all the scenarios of why this will work, just post one in which you think it will not be balanced. One thing you should remember is TOP and i mean TOP warriors will take advantage of decapitate in GvG specifically because of the knockdown condition for bonus damage. If you have any constructive criticism or questions go nuts. I would love to hear feedback and if you feel my idea will damage the game in any way please respond.

phan · Nov 13, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

In my opinion it will be a bit to easy i guess .. well to prot it with sb ;
heal monk calls knockdown and he gets sb'ed against decap .

Maybe use the normal version but instead of all energy loss make it -10 or for 5 seconds you have -40armor ; meh i don't know .. just giving my opinion

Shayne Hawke · Nov 13, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

I'd say lower the base bonus by a bit and increase the bonus by up to 10 or so. You've definitely got a reasonable idea going there.

zelgadissan · Nov 13, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I dunno. One of the more common bars you see for an Eviscerate warrior includes both Shock and Bull's, so they have multiple ways to do the KD. At the same time though, would you really force yourself to only spike on KD for three more damage?

Maybe I would if it was unblockable. Given the above suggestion, I'd still take Eviscerate.

Edit: like Shayne said though, it's definitely a better idea than what it is now.

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 13, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Have it hit twice. First does DW, second one does damage. That way it holds true to it's finishing maneuvre type thing. Penalties still apply as they do now, though some other fiddling will need to be done with damage and stuff.

thor hammerbane · Nov 13, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Very good idea for the skill change. Would greatly reward proper bulls strikes, and the end result wouldnt be too different from an actual eviscerate. I would love a little change

/signed

emuking · Nov 13, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

200+ view and 6 comments; it would be really cool if you could simply agree or disagree with my scheme, and yes im debating conditional damg increase by MAYBE a couple points if at all. The more voices the higher chance anet will listen! Thankyou for your time!

Elir · Nov 13, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

indeed its a nice idea,

bulls and Decap will have to much dps that can replace the so old evi axe spike

but do you really think that a-net developers will listen?

/signed

jaximus · Nov 13, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

thats worse than evis as you said it. you gotta make it have a lot bigger damage on the conditional, give it the auto crit back, or dont change it at all. as it is now, everything being perfect, you get +3 damage, not worth it. id say, leave it as is except you keep your energy. that way you need a cancel stance that isnt rush, and cant spam shock and frenzy or youd be left vulnerable.

wind fire and ice · Nov 13, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Not a bad idea at all.

imo add a bit of damage to the unconditional and take a bit from the conditional though so its still worth using on targets with balanced stance/ect.

ele pl · Nov 13, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

My idea: its DECAPITATE, so it should have like: if this attack kills the foe (or this attack hits foe with less than 50 % health - one of those) you dont need to lost your e and adren.

Capua · Nov 13, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Your suggestion sounds okay, far better than the current Decapitate at least.

aj throttle · Nov 13, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

interesting idea you have. but if i would change decapitate it would look like this

+17-20-25 dmg deep wound and cripple or even a bleed and require 7 adren.

hellyea526 · Nov 13, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by aj throttle

interesting idea you have. but if i would change decapitate it would look like this

+17-20-25 dmg deep wound and cripple or even a bleed and require 7 adren.

that would be overpowered, it would be like crip slash on steroids. at the op's idea, you would need to add more conditional damage for it to be feasible.

Tenebrae · Nov 14, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Thats fine , make it unblockable and there u go , good skill . Otherwise make victims skills disabled for 2....6 secs would be great ( kinda like stun effect ).

ac1inferno · Nov 14, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I don't see anything wrong with [[Decapitate] as it is right now. If you don't like losing all the energy, use [[Zealous Renewal] or swap to a -5 energy weapon when using Decapitate and then swap back to a normal weapon. You could even use [[Ether Signet]. If you're worried about the adrenaline, use it with [[Burst of Aggression].

emuking · Nov 14, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Thats fine , make it unblockable and there u go , good skill . Otherwise make victims skills disabled for 2....6 secs would be great ( kinda like stun effect ).

making it unblockable would be overpowering (I considered it) and would cause too much discussion for GvG's when spiking. As for disabling the skills, that would also make it overpowered. I would be like adding a blackout to an adren skill that (if you somehow charged fast enough) you could keep the enemy in perma shutdown if not for the majority of the time. I do see the argument "Why use this when I can use evis for 3 less damg?" make the conditional +4...15...18 is all i would change because making that number in the conditional TOO big would just cause every1 to you use it over evicerate. The fact that some of you would like this change and some of you won't is very good to hear.

If all of you would love it changed to this, it might be because all of you would start using it, which is what i do not want. I want diversity, so if 1/2 of you would use this and the other half would find evis more useful because that +3 (or +4 or 5 w/e its a theory skill change) is not useful, then i have done my job well.

To the post above, Decapitate is a problem for pvp, ask anyone PVP CREDIBLE and mention bar compression, adaptation, or the fact that you have to bring a bunch of bad skills to barely make it work as a build.

Thanks for all comments, keep them up!

Nittle Grasper · Nov 15, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

9 adrenaline +5...45 (@ rank 15) if this attack hits, if your target is knocked down this attack causes deep wound for 5...20 seconds.
how about that?

emuking · Nov 15, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nittle Grasper

9 adrenaline +5...45 (@ rank 15) if this attack hits, if your target is knocked down this attack causes deep wound for 5...20 seconds.
how about that?

That would be too powerful. It would be one more adren than evis for extra damg and a knockdown. Knockdowns are very powerful for warriors, and there is a reason no sword or axe skill causes knockdown. Imagine a bulls strike followed by the decapitate qknock you... and then shock!... and then dchop! It would be like knocklocking on a hammer warrior with better damage. The only way to stop this would be more blocking for monks meaning more mo/w's. I think this would apply to gvg's as well because you would need extra defense vs this kind of pressure. A for effort but it would be imbalanced towards evis and all the other axe elites.

placebo overdose · Nov 15, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

That would be too powerful. It would be one more adren than evis for extra damg and a knockdown. Knockdowns are very powerful for warriors, and there is a reason no sword or axe skill causes knockdown. Imagine a bulls strike followed by the decapitate qknock you... and then shock!... and then dchop! It would be like knocklocking on a hammer warrior with better damage. The only way to stop this would be more blocking for monks meaning more mo/w's. I think this would apply to gvg's as well because you would need extra defense vs this kind of pressure. A for effort but it would be imbalanced towards evis and all the other axe elites.

im assuming he meant if kd'd then deep wound so calm down twelveteen notches