Curse

fires element · Feb 22, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Next ive noticed a Jab at the Merchants. If you dont mind i would ask that you explain one thing. How are you going to tell me that people who actually take the time to get the correct value of an item down and go out and buy if off people who are to ignorant to get it PC'd or to even care is Not-Honorable method of playing the game?
If i take the time to to learn that item X is worth 400e but the noob next to me dosent care and wants to get 100e for it i see nothing wrong with that.

i may be misunderstanding what you are saying here. but the honorable thing would be to tell the noob next to you that the item in question is worth 400e instead of leaving him ignorant and making 300e off of that. the top portion of my post is a quote from island guardian on the previous page.

Island Guardian · Feb 22, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fires element

Next ive noticed a Jab at the Merchants. If you dont mind i would ask that you explain one thing. How are you going to tell me that people who actually take the time to get the correct value of an item down and go out and buy if off people who are to ignorant to get it PC'd or to even care is Not-Honorable method of playing the game?
If i take the time to to learn that item X is worth 400e but the noob next to me dosent care and wants to get 100e for it i see nothing wrong with that.

i may be misunderstanding what you are saying here. but the honorable thing would be to tell the noob next to you that the item in question is worth 400e instead of leaving him ignorant and making 300e off of that. the top portion of my post is a quote from island guardian on the previous page.

Im not gonna babbysite these noobs if they dont spend time to look at prices its thier fault. And so i make profit

l Rainy l · Feb 22, 2009, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Ughhhh...I had a really well written reply, but then there was a database error -.-. So here it goes again. Firstly, I know my argument sounds Communist, but in reality I am the most free market, neoclassical guy, so coming from me, this is a little weird.

So to clarify:

I am talking about a very low frequency of introduced minis. While they would lower the aggregate price, the only people that would really get hurt would be the people merchanting them. Furthermore, if this change was made in the form of having them dropped from the zchest, than it would benefit rich people more anyway. Yes some people who didn't "deserve" them would have possession, but I do not think their would be many negative implications (more on this later).

Moreover, my argument is not hypocritical because it rests on the assumption that merchanting is not a difficult or skillful way to make money. In this way, the acquisition of pandas through merchanting, does not mean the player really "deserved" them. I know many players who are shit at GW - they have absolutely no skill, knowledge of tactics, coordination, timing, ect; yet despite being terrible they are absolutely loaded. Sure, as aforementioned, it takes some smarts and knowledge of prices to merchant, but I do not believe that it is that complex of a skill that it merits the owning of a panda. It's essentially a get rich quick scheme.

Now, let's compare this to the acquisition of a gold cape. It is not so simply "the hassle of forming a team" that wins a gold cape, as you put it. Rather, winning a gold cape requires an incredible amount of player skill and team coordination (rawr is not going to beaten anytime soon). Unlike merchanting, a gold cape requires innate ability and reflexes, as well as a much more intense commitment to the game.

So what is worse:

A bad player buying his way into a gold trimmed guild, or a good player having the very very very small chance of getting a panda, which doesn't take any skill or grind to obtain, but rather loads of money. Money can buy pandas...you can't bride anet to give you a gold cape - you actually need skill for that.

This being said, I can predict your rebuttal: "if merchanting doesn't require player skill, then why don't more people become rich enough to afford a panda" (of course if this were to happen then the price of the panda would go up, so let's assume it is static). Quite simply, in response, not that many people want to merchant. While it doesn't much skill to do, many would rather play the game to have fun and to improve their skills. Believe it or not, people actually try to improve their skills and work hard to get better, rather than buying their way into guilds, and not becoming better players. It is ironic then, that players can ultimately gain great prestige by merchanting, an act which requires very little player skill.

Now let's talk more specifically about the impact of rich pvers on the pvp community. While they do put money in peoples' pockets, they have essentially made the entire pvp community worse off. Because of people like you who buy their way into guilds and buy champs, ladder manipulation has increased in prevalence as the demand has gone up. Moreover, gvg in particular has been corrupted, and champ points have been greatly devalued. Money, it is thought by people like you, can buy you skill. If more pandas were added to guild wars, would the pve community be corrupted - no. Sure it would piss off some rich merchants (who probably are bad at GW), but in general, it would give some good players the opportunity to get some unique items.

In summary, I don't consider you a good player for memorizing some prices, and I don't believe merchanting is a very admirable skill. You can make money by taking advantage of noobs, but does that show player skill in any way - no. I hate seeing bad people with Pandas. On the other hand, you have a gold cape...just like Polly, who has led rawr to a ridiculous number of gold capes, and is a fantastic player. Quite simply, who would I rather see with a panda and the cape: polly.

Island Guardian · Feb 22, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

JUST because some one is rich dosent make them a bad player so STOP hinting at that your not funny. Second In stead of playing for 50000 hours and farming uw and getting 1 eternal blade per month if i make good use of my time so be it because i can make more per hour than the average player can farm. You do realizes your talking about a game? i dont think the avg Joe sets aside 1-2 hours to "train" and get thier skills better. Did you pay some one to have ur guild in all japanese? reguardless you think that money is so worthless than why do the highest lvl of pvpers the GVGers win money as a reward for being good. You have changed the topic so far form adding minis to Defacing the smart Merchant. Minis shouldnt be added Because plp cry period. The reason some of the now highend minis were added was because America and Euro got minis while they Asian region was left out. What makes one better than another in Guildwars? thier titles? no any one can grind titles? thier minis- no any on can grind cash. Thier guild-no any one can put together a solid build and give Rawr a run for thier money so i ask you what Defines a leet player and what depfines a noob?

l Rainy l · Feb 22, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Guardian

any one can put together a solid build and give Rawr a run for thier money

From this statement I have concluded that you are bad at this game, strengthening my argument. I'm pretty sure the entire pvp community would disagree with you on this one. This isn't merchanting we are talking about, guilds like these train for hours upon hours a day. I actually am in utter shock that you made this statement...utter shock.

Also, I have deduced that you are very unintelligent because you do not understand my argument. It is not money I have a problem with - I do not think it's useless - but rather, it is merchanting that I have a problem with. You seem to get the two confused. I'm arguing merchanting takes very little skill or grind, which you don't dispute. I never make a connection between wealthy people and being bad at the game. I merely point out many merchants are usually not good because you don't need much talent to be one, and they are tempted to buy themselves prestige, instead of actually earning it.

These observations were made in order to make the point that the people in possession of Pandas, are more than likely undeserving of them, and that adding a few to the game would give good people a small chance of acquiring them.

Eragon Zarroc · Feb 22, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

i agree that rare min-pets should be implemented with uber rare drop rate that allows no more than a few to drop a month. hell, they can even make it to were the chances of one dropping are shut-off after a certain un-disclosed quota is met per month. that way everyone spams keys right after the update every month, lol.

Yawgmoth · Feb 23, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Zaishen Chest is what destroyed the value of many things. Some Minipets were created to be special unique rewards existing in a very limited number, and they should stay that way or their status will change completely. And that 1 chest shouldn't be a way to get everything, maybe there was a reason that it doesn't drop any minipets at all.

I'd like more if they added a superrare mini with a ridiculously low droprate to the end of The Deep / Urgoz chests, as even after many updates making their average drops very nice they still cannot drop anything of high value at all to make up for their elite status. A tiny tiny chance for something awesome could revive those dead areas, as the psychological effect which made people do thousands of Mini Polar Bear runs is stronger than cold calculation of average expected returns. But if say a Mini Island Guardian could drop from Urgoz chest with so ridiculously low chance that even if the area became as heavily farmed as UWSC is now (thats just impossible) it would drop maybe 2x in a whole year, and still it's status would change in many people's minds - it would become a "PvE farmable pet" instead of "Limited - not available for many years". And that's the problem.
But oh, what if they already can drop there, maybe with the same chance as getting an Everlasting Yuletide from FoW chest? We will never know, lol, as the areas are completely dead xD

Oh, and big lolz for calling GW an item-based game because of expensive minis :hahaha:

Lycan Nibbler · Feb 23, 2009, 03:06 AM // 03:06

I think because so many of the ultra rare pets have now been either dedicated/ removed from the game(duping)/ no longer available (on"dead" accounts) or hoarded, then it seems reasonable to trickle feed ones in through the z chest.
/signed

MithranArkanere · Feb 23, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

The only good rarity I know is 'rarity over time'.
Let them be ultra rare for 3 or 5 years, and after that add another way to acquire them without limitation, but for a price or effort.

That way people have their exclusive stuff for some time, but since everything devalues over time, same would rarity of those items.
It already happens with almost everything else in the game.

Island Guardian · Feb 23, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

im sorry when has the panda dropped in value?

Nerel · Feb 23, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Didn't the launch of Nightfall add 110 mini Pandas to the game (well, for the Taiwanese players anyhow)? In any normal economy going from a rarity of 16 in game to 126 in game would lower their value, but then GW's highend is dominated by Dupers, those who profit from dupers and scammers, so probably not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Guardian

The reason some of the now highend minis were added was because America and Euro got minis while they Asian region was left out.

Don't you have this backwards? The European magazine minipet give away and the American Minipet Madness competitions were because Asian regions (Japan and Taiwan) had been given almost all of the rare minipets previously.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 24, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Oh, wow, a thread rezzed from over a year ago to say that we still don't support it and to bash each other. gg.

My post from a year ago stands - rare items are rare for a reason.

Lycan Nibbler · Feb 24, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Oh, wow, a thread rezzed from over a year ago to say that we still don't support it and to bash each other. gg.

My post from a year ago stands - rare items are rare for a reason.

the definition of what is rare and what is unobtainable is the issue though I think - even more so a year down the line - think Ive seen 1 panda for sale in the past year and the last Kanaxai(sp - cant be bothered looking it up) I know being sold was the one I sold maybe 2+years ago now.
If there were always the same in the game at any point in time it would be ok, but does anyone really know how many were removed with the duping bans before?

Dr.Jones · Feb 24, 2009, 07:28 AM // 07:28

i think that they should be as rare if not more rare then everlasting tonics and i also think that they shouldn't be added to the zchest but the hall of heroes chest seeing as its a lot harder to get to and it would make more people play OR they could fix up ye old tomes and add a end chest that would drop them.... though adding them to the zchest would raise the price of zkeys which would make me happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Zaishen Chest is what destroyed the value of many things.

I LOLED wut are you talking about Oh you mean your shity "perfect" weapons in ph that dont have an inscription?