Curse

Winterclaw · Feb 25, 2009, 12:37 AM // 00:37

I was thinking, part of the problem with getting into HA is that newcomers have to take time to learn the maps and the current meta. For most ranked players, someone like that is a bit of a liability mostly because someone who doesn't know what's going on won't know what to do or how to act.

That's why I'd like to propose a training HA. You won't get any fame or faction from it, but it would require everyone to play and win on all the maps and 3 goes at the HoH, one for every type, in a PvE setting. In it they'd face AI teams that run the common metas and act kind of like how real players would on the various maps.

It wouldn't make a newcomer good (hense no rewards) but it'd allow them to have a basic understanding of what he'll be seeing.

gameshoes3003 · Feb 25, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

/signed
I still don't know what the final stage is...

Marverick · Feb 25, 2009, 02:16 AM // 02:16

/signed if hero title becomes an undisplayable title. otherwise /don'tgiveadamn

subarucar · Feb 25, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

/signed
I wana hold the NPC HoH because i can never be bothered to get of my arse and hold the real one.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 25, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

The idea ultimately fails if you're just pitting them against more AIs. That won't teach them anything more about PvP, even if the AI is given metagame builds which, by the way, would require ANet to be updating that arena type with metagame builds as they come and go out of style.

I'd rather just see an unrated/unranked version of HA without faction/fame, but that also doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would a person play a game variant with no rewards and no losses instead of a gameplay with some rewards and no losses?

Shadowmoon · Feb 25, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I'd rather just see an unrated/unranked version of HA without faction/fame, but that also doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would a person play a game variant with no rewards and no losses instead of a gameplay with some rewards and no losses?

Just have it give no faction, but give fame up til r3, then you'll have to go to real ha.

Sai Sayre · Feb 25, 2009, 05:58 AM // 05:58

The basic combat styles of HA are explained through the Crystal Desert missions in Prophecies. So that's been there. And like previous posts state, the meta changes too often for any sort of AI to be implemented to copy it effectively.

However, I will sign on implementing some way to introduce new players to the HA maps. Perhaps putting something in the Zaishen challenge missions.

Ben-A-BoO · Feb 25, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

/notsigned

start here: Ultimate Strategy Guide to Heroes Ascent

Use obs and pug like a mad man.

FoxBat · Feb 25, 2009, 07:03 AM // 07:03

We have both the crystal desert missions that cover the basic strategies, and we have TotPK which puts you in the actual maps. There isn't much more that can be done PvE-wise.

Now expanding scrimmage options so you can run a scrim on any HA map, giving you time to poke around, figure out the basic mechanics, and run some small teams against each other... that would be something.

Dr.Jones · Feb 25, 2009, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I thought the Desert missions in Ph were missions DESIGNED to teach you how to play ha.

MithranArkanere · Feb 25, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

There is training for the Arenas (Zaishen Challenge and Zaishen Elite).
There should be Zaishen Ascend and Zaishen Hero Battles too.

Winterclaw · Feb 25, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Okay, if the crystal dessert missions are supposed to teach you the basics of HA, what are the people who only have factions or NF supposed to do?

snaek · Feb 25, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr. jones

I thought the Desert missions in Ph were missions DESIGNED to teach you how to play ha.

true (albeit very poorly)

however, i think the problem at hand is accessibility more than anything else
sure the desert missions give u an idea of how the game modes work
but they dun exactly help u get started into ha, or even get u interested into ha since theres no obvious relation

building interest in ha is also quite important imo into tryin to bring new players in
theres very little motivation anymore for many ppl to get into ha, or even pvp at all of any form

personally i think a mini-arena like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmoon

Just have it give no faction, but give fame up til r3, then you'll have to go to real ha.

would be a pretty good idea

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithranarkanere

There should be Zaishen Ascend and Zaishen Hero Battles too.

agree, but hopefully there would be good anti-farming measures implemented

phan · Feb 25, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Okay, if the crystal dessert missions are supposed to teach you the basics of HA, what are the people who only have factions or NF supposed to do?

to be competitive you have to own all campaigns ; guildwars has always been like this .

Winterclaw · Feb 25, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Irrelevant. If the CD was intended to train people to HA and the other campaigns don't have an equivalent, they are pointless. That's why there should be a "training" HA that is independent of all the games.

Your logic also fails the other way, the CD is supposed to train people to HA but it only has a very few proph skills and elites and nothing from outside of proph. If people want to be competitive in HA then they need to get used to the better skills coming at them from all campaigns.

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 25, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

/signed

There is no easy way to get /rank. What I did is join a good guild, stayed active and now I'm r4.

ightgg · Feb 25, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by subarucar

/signed
I wana hold the NPC HoH because i can never be bothered to get of my arse and hold the real one.

Zaishen Henchmen's Team won Hall of Heroes.

Cause the real pver get owned by full hench team. :]

-Rit <3

phan · Feb 25, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Irrelevant. If the CD was intended to train people to HA and the other campaigns don't have an equivalent, they are pointless. That's why there should be a "training" HA that is independent of all the games.

Your logic also fails the other way, the CD is supposed to train people to HA but it only has a very few proph skills and elites and nothing from outside of proph. If people want to be competitive in HA then they need to get used to the better skills coming at them from all campaigns.

In my opinion your basing your counters on nothing relevant . A HA training for skill usage would be useless because you get that "basic" training in other parts of the game.

The timing and the more advanced stuff should be practised by playing and thinking about your actions . Positioning should be learned in (maybe PvE) ; Ra ; Ta and Ab but imho HB is a very good example where you can learn positioning .

As for Ha-Map and gameplay training , observing does wonders . The Ha-maps are on both wiki's if people feel the need to "study" them but i know this is most of the time only half the work . You can run around in your guildhall as much as you want but playing it in decent GvG is a whole world of differnce in how the map is played .

And yes i stay with my point that : trying to become a competitive gw-player your obliged to buy all campaigns and instead of providing one "training-area" per campaign make it available to PvP-only chars by placing it at GToB x)

Yawgmoth · Feb 26, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Recently I got totally surprised realizing how many new players didn't know what Heroes Ascent is at all! I've met quite a bunch of such players in a matter of last several DAYS, when I got back to playing some HA and they wanted to complete some trades with me, I was telling them I'm playing HA or that I can meet in HA int-2 because I'm in a group soon to start, and they didn't know what HA is. I said "Heroes Ascent" and they often answered they never heard of it! I've talked with them some longer, they weren't complete newbies, they knew and played some RA, AB, even GvG before but never heard of this obscure place called Heroes Ascent!

Wow. It probably really is a problem. This place is totally hidden and invisible, very inaccessible, and it doesn't matter that the players who can't get there can't play it. They should first know about it! And now they have to /wiki it or ask other players when they hear the name, the game doesn't lead them there. Apparently those Hall of Heroes Wins messages aren't enough to make people interested...

And as for training - aren't some PvE missions designed just for that? The problem is they don't lead to it anymore.

snaek · Feb 26, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

^agree wit yawgmoth

i think wut 1st made ppl look at ha/hoh was its connection to uw/fow wit favour
i remember when i playd back in the day, many ppl would aks bout that message (myself included the very first time)

now theres really no reason to have any interest in ha...for 2 reasons
1) its too hard to get into
2) pve'rs jus have way too many things to keep them busy to even look at any pvp form, let alone ha

i guess u can also say that /zrank has replaced /rank for pve'rs

so yea...i think perhaps awareness and accessibility should be top priorities