Curse

Lourens · Mar 16, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

[shadow form] ---> [Spell breaker]x[dryder's defenses]x[death's charge]

shadowstep to target foe for 3-7 seconds you cant be the target of spells and you have 100% to block end effect lose 10% of your health

The reason I am suggesting this because every now and then i try something with shadow form in Random Arenas when it ends i lose all but 40hp 1 hit and im done -.-

zwei2stein · Mar 16, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Eww.

In order to be viable without perma-ability, SF needs to stop dropping health when it ends. If you do that, it will work.

MagmaRed · Mar 16, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46

3-7 seconds of 75% blocking is killing the skill, which you said you didn't want to do. You can still take hits from skills that ignore blocking (Wild Blow/Strike/Throw, Sun and Moon, etc.) and you still suffer damage from spells. If it has a 3-7 second duration, the recharge would need to be 10-15 seconds, anything longer would make it useless.

Although I don't like the idea of perma, I don't see this as an effective change to the skill.... not at all.

Alex Dimitri · Mar 16, 2009, 03:04 PM // 15:04

@OP

This is you solution for the skill ? Who would use Elite like that ??
I mean really, just give it a rest and leave this skill alone it`s been nerfed enough !

Damian979 · Mar 16, 2009, 03:07 PM // 15:07

I guess it is time for another "something something shadowform something" thread. These always pop up every few weeks like herpes. Get some cream and let it be.

jiggles · Mar 16, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Just kill it.

dasmitchies · Mar 16, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Since nobody can permaform in pvp I still can't understand why there is so much hate for it. And dont whine it's about the economy stupid, it is not like anet is going to change UW back to it's former self if SF gets nerfed. Someone close this thread.

DeFFik · Mar 16, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Kill perma. Kill all farmer builds so noone could do it...

Kill, Maim, Burn, like Kharn the Betrayer(wh40k universum) says.

/having bad day today, needed that. Umh, not signed...

Skyy High · Mar 16, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I think this is one of the better ideas for the skill I've seen so far. Just take out the 75% blocking and keep "all attacks against you miss" and we have a winner. Also, make it so that it can't be perma-ed. In its current form, Shadow form is either useless or broken, that's just the way it is. No one used it when it came out except the Afflicted, because it could only be kept up about 1/3 the time, and it basically guaranteed that the sin would die if he used it without telling the monk (which naturally would always happen in a PUG).

Shayne Hawke · Mar 16, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

"Nerf without killing" is what they've done since last summer or so when permaformers started raping the UW for ectos.

Just kill it already.

Kattar · Mar 16, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

So, you've suggested a nerf. But why? Why is there a need to mess with SF more?

More reasoning is needed.

Skyy High · Mar 16, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

So, you've suggested a nerf. But why? Why is there a need to mess with SF more?

More reasoning is needed.

Because the continued existence of 3 skill permanent invulnerability combo makes a mockery of every other balance ever done for the sake of PvE, most notably UB, the minion cap, and AI fleeing from AoE.

Kattar · Mar 16, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Because the continued existence of 3 skill permanent invulnerability combo makes a mockery of every other balance ever done for the sake of PvE, most notably UB, the minion cap, and AI fleeing from AoE.

I know what you think. I also know what certain parts of the community think. What I don't know is why the OP felt the need to post this. It's part of conforming to the guidelines for this forum. Posting an idea without thorough reasoning is not acceptable.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 16, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

How about just changing Sliver Armor to not work alongside Shadow Form, that would nerf the most effective Perma SF farming around.

Or, remove the end effect *loss of health*, turn the skill into a Skill or Form instead of an Enchantment, and have it set up that at 12 you have 5 second downtime - at 16 you have 3 seconds downtime, or less.

Four simple things that will not slaughter the skill, but makes Perma SF less viable.

The reason why the nerfing to the skill has not worked is because they are only changing the duration and recharge - aside from adding the damage nerf.

But, to me, as long as Perma SF exists, I think Ursan should return, Spell Break should be buffed, and every profession given their own "Godmode" - that way one profession will not rule them all.

Loki Seiguro · Mar 16, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

/notsigned

I don't know what you are going on about but nerfing shadow form and puting in those three skills is a waste. 3 > 1 is it not? So instead of using one skill slot you are now using 3

.

As for perma SFers ruining pve for you then join a guild that doesn't perma Sf and runs balance or something.

So stop complaining about SF and what not like those other people.

Xsiriss · Mar 16, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Damn shadowform haters. So what, people can obtain decent amounts of money without having to confront the elitist pricks of all the old 'team' builds. Which also too revolved around exploit (eg. B/P). Y'all need moar cowbell.

FoxBat · Mar 16, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Lindsey already mentioned that SF continues to be a problem, measured primarily by the enabling of UWSC, and is something to be looked at once the big april update is finished. If perma wasn't going to be killed outright, she would need time/ideas to try and adjust the skill further.

What the OP posted was more like a "total rework" of the elite as we had in the past, trying to make this a viable and interesting PvP skill. It would about obliterate it from the farming world, that's generally the point; if some people played around with it in AB then all the better.

Sticking with the current "SF is for PvE' track, A PvE-only version that wasn't perma-able, but let you keep your health, sounds fair to me. It would still be useable for certain sliver farms where you kill the target fast, such as green farming; it might be viable in other instances where you use shadowsteps to escape (there was an old build for soloing tombs like this); and it would still be fairly strong at tanking the initial onslaught of whatever.

To make the skill more versatile and less narrowly farm-y, I'd make it into a self-disabling form like the dervish skills. It could then even have 30s uptime and 45s recharge. You might even set the pvp version up like this, the only difference being that the pvp one drops your health. (It's just far too abuseable otherwise.)

Bong Bro Zac · Mar 16, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

/not signed
imo opinion awful idea but still not as bad as having perma SF... i think they should increase the length slightly and the recharge a ton... it was commonly used for green farming long before "permas". even though i hate to say it i think perma SF is here to stay there are just too many fans of those mountains of easy 123 cash. 1000 times more unbalenced than ursan was

Sage Tylos · Mar 16, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I agree that what Shadow Form needs is some sort of alteration to its functionality. Personally, I feel that combining [[Spell Breaker] and a buffed version of [[Mist Form] into a single skill was a terrible idea and should never have happened in the first place - that's just too powerful. There's a reason they make ele's chose between [[Mist Form] and [[Obsidian Flesh] (both are elites and tied to different attributes): Both at once would be godly, and that's what Shadow Form is. As long as it's a single skill that makes you immune to almost all mechanics, it will always be either overpowered or worthless. You can't balance that sort of functionality by simply adjusting enchant duration vs. skill recharge time.

That said, I also agree with MagmaRed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I don't see this as an effective change to the skill.... not at all.

The skill needs an alteration to its functionality, but the OP's idea wouldn't really work.

Loki Seiguro · Mar 16, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

OK, having a down time is somehting but if I remember correctly you could bring eternal aura(is the SS dervish skill that does an instant recharge) and perma SF is back up