Curse

Snow Bunny · Mar 18, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I searched, didn't find something alongside the same lines, so here we go...

So, most players in this game play PvE. This is a given. However, they claim to PvP based on their sporadic bouts with RA and AB, and the rare instance of HA. Unfortunately, this doesn't really introduce players to organized PvP, especially GvG.

RA and AB are their own different creatures, but they're both casual, and occasionally get people into PvP. AB is more fun due to the amount of people - 12v12 is pretty fun, and teamwork normally leads to victory. RA is fun as well, but the problem is that a team without a healer normally loses, and the 4v4 format leaves little room for error.

Most players don't gravitate towards GvG, citing how hard it is to get into, and that most players are discouraged from it, noting the effort involved in forming a group will be for naught after immediately getting rolled by a superior guild team. So, Anet should take a lesson from RA and AB, at least to entice introduction to GvG, which most players find, after enough immersion in it, to easily be the best part of GW.

RA style GvG - that is, unrated matches between two teams of 8. It wouldn't be "guild versus guild", so to speak, but "eight random twats vs. eight random sods." To forstall the usual frustrations with RA - Healer = win, no healer = loss, the game should take into account several things. The Halo matchmaking engine, while it does this imperfectly, attempts to gauge your skill level. Someone in a new format might be stomping people initially, but will eventually hit a wall when the game sizes them up finally with players along their same skill. The current GW system does this (SORT OF, pretty poorly, but it tries) with guilds, based on rank.

The system should take into account PvP titles, and availability of healers. The other professions are present enough, but making a team wait so that 2 healers of some sort can be put with them make for a better experience. While it may indeed lead to imperfect matchups (weird monk builds when they should have been heal/prot), this can attempt to alleviate the normal frustrations one feels RAing.

I know this is a wall of text, but there have been many times when I've wanted to GvG, but do it casually, without a fear of failure, or serious play. RA does this well, but it doesn't do a good job of introducing players to the GvG format, nor does it satisfy the desire to casually GvG. A random arena style venue where some sort of calculation of titles can take place (yes, they don't mean much, but they mean something) as well as consideration of a healing backline would ease players into it.

The GvG format by itself is fun, but organization is difficult and time consuming, a major deterrent to new players. As RA stands, it's a quick and easy, albeit unforgiving venue to experience player vs. player action. The GvG format is really fun, and so by creating a seperate arena, one not linked to the ladder of ATs, I think would introduce new players to the gameplay without a trial by fire.

Forgive the shoddy structure of my argument, I'm on a lot of coffee right now.

Nota bene: Obviously not for GW1, but would be nice for GW2. I also understand there exists a GW2 suggestions thread, but this is something that should have been in GW1 to start. PvP is a different beast entirely from "Hair stylists should be in GW2!!!"

Will Holden · Mar 18, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I think this would be a good idea, and introduce alot of players to further PvP.

However, considering the current state of Random Arenas, the 'randomness' is hit hard by syncers.

If a good solution is presented to stop the sync teams. I think this is a good idea.

MagmaRed · Mar 18, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Random GvG? Is that what I'm reading about? GvG without coordination in builds and even Vent/TS/etc. is not even close to what the MAT guilds are doing. Besides which, how would the location be chosen? Each guild picks the hall based on how they play GvG, and use the environment to their style. At least if you are in a guild participating in GvG, you have people to tell you what you are doing wrong. Even a bad guild should have at least one person who knows what is wrong. Joining a 'random' GvG team and getting 1 Monk, 1 Shadow Form Sin, 3 Meteor Shower Ele's, 1 MM Necro, 1 MB Rt/N, and 1 Heal Party wammo would be a laugh, but not a good way to get introduced to the format. Not to mention the fact that most of those PvE scrubs you are trying to get interested in GvG would be running with Minor Vigor and Superior Sword instead of Minor Sword and Superior Vigor.

Although I understand the idea, I don't like the implementation. GvG has a lot of complex things that a 'random' grouping won't help with. Guilds need to 'train' people at least to some extent if people want to play this format. I'd rather people found a way to improve RA, AB, etc. by making them more like GvG, then having GvG get made worse by making it more like RA, etc.

turbo234 · Mar 18, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

"eight random twats vs. eight random sods."

i think its a pretty good idea. there really should be a random style setting for each type of pvp imo.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Mar 19, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Random GvG? Is that what I'm reading about? GvG without coordination in builds and even Vent/TS/etc. is not even close to what the MAT guilds are doing. Besides which, how would the location be chosen? Each guild picks the hall based on how they play GvG, and use the environment to their style. At least if you are in a guild participating in GvG, you have people to tell you what you are doing wrong. Even a bad guild should have at least one person who knows what is wrong. Joining a 'random' GvG team and getting 1 Monk, 1 Shadow Form Sin, 3 Meteor Shower Ele's, 1 MM Necro, 1 MB Rt/N, and 1 Heal Party wammo would be a laugh, but not a good way to get introduced to the format. Not to mention the fact that most of those PvE scrubs you are trying to get interested in GvG would be running with Minor Vigor and Superior Sword instead of Minor Sword and Superior Vigor.

Although I understand the idea, I don't like the implementation. GvG has a lot of complex things that a 'random' grouping won't help with. Guilds need to 'train' people at least to some extent if people want to play this format. I'd rather people found a way to improve RA, AB, etc. by making them more like GvG, then having GvG get made worse by making it more like RA, etc.

You don't know nearly as much about gvg as you think you do. I also dont understand whatthefck the point your trying to make is. Its very very different than real GvG?

Well no really! Thanks for the insight.

The point is that, no matter how far away from gvg it is, ITS STILL CLOSER THAN RA, AB OR HA.

I think you also missed the part about the skill matching system, ie; if a team consists of 8 healing party warriors, they will be facing a team of 8 minion master assassins.

And besides all that, hes not offering specifics; just a very crude outline of what should be accomplished; not how to accomplish it. If it can be done right it would be fantastic, however im not sold that Anet could do it without managing to fck something up.

snaek · Mar 19, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

random doesn't quite work imo... i think if it was made so they you have to choose between a list of pre-defined builds, then it might work.

i.e. 3 frontline, 2 midline, 2 backline, 1 flagger -- and each category will have 3 or 4+ presets to choose from.

when you start gvg as a new player, even in a real guild, almost always you are given the build required to play. this is how one learns gvg, by playing a specific role. if any random person can run any random build they want in gvg, it defeats the purpose of learning how to actually play gvg. if a nub complains about how he cant run any retarded build he wants, then quite frankly he probably wouldn't work out in a real gvg guild either.

so basically you enter the gvg pug outpost. you select the role you want, hit enter battle, and then gw will match up the proper players on the proper teams and start the game when enough players have been filled.

(also equipment will be predefined--perhaps with the option of being customizable, i'm not sure)

FoxBat · Mar 19, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Set builds wouldn't be too good in the long run unless they are updated constantly. (remember when ANet had pvp templates?) Yeah they did the costume brawl fairly well, but that's once a year, and appeared long after players developed a metagame.

I think an actual pug outpost (as in, form a party, bark your skills just like HA) is needed, with unrated matches. Unrated matches would eliminate a ton of the smurfing still going on in the game, while allowing any random group of people to get together and gvg. In fact given the introduction of the AT structure, they could do away with the "ladder game" concept altogether in GW2.

HA was supposed to conceptually fill this role, being the "pug gvg" equivalent, but it really differs far too much for that to make sense. It's better for them to leave "mist battle" as uncoordinated AB-style pvp, and concentrate the organized pvp into the same format, whether run unranked by pugs or top guilds fighting over capes in mATs.

warrior running · Mar 19, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

this might be coll if like u could decide what was ognna be in each group and if there was a new rank

snaek · Mar 19, 2009, 04:44 AM // 04:44

how hard is it to update templates?
just ask rawr or go into obs mode...i guess they could even use pvxwiki if they're really that lazy... (though i'm probably underestimating they're laziness)

King Jay · Mar 20, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

/unsigned - Thats a lot to ask for as well

Plus your automatically assuming every monk will play as a heal/prot

8 v 8 RA just sounds like chaos actually.

joshuarodger · Mar 20, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

i <3 u snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!