Curse

Hugh Manatee · Mar 23, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

I'm all for more dynamic mobs in HM, but not exactly implemented like this.

Think about it, there shouldn't be a cave full of about 30 easy to kill enemies+boss each with the same skills just outside a major town with nothing between them and you. Why can't there be a few monk raptors or give them something to hit with that bypasses typical farm stuff(like why aren't there angorodons right in front of the cave or in it instead of just patrolling near it).

Take the Hydras in the crystal desert, they already have boss hydras of each class, why not disperse non-boss versions among the ele hydras, give them elites and send them on their way. Same deal with the trolls, vermin, tengu and other easily farmed crap, de-bossify the boss versions and spread them around.

Then it's just a matter of randomizing the spawns, which does already happen in most of tyria.

spirit of defeat · Mar 23, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

it would also kill the difference of each expolrable. the only change would be number of enemies.

Scary · Mar 23, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

This would change the environment of HM PvE, as players could not rely on simply building for known enemies in the area. Additionally, players would have to be able to quickly assess the build of an incoming group and implement a strategy to combat it.

So that meens to beat this strategy, is go inn with a surten team build a few times, go out and take the build you actual want and go in the area again.

Yep that would make it more inoing but not harder.

trankle · Mar 23, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

it would also kill the difference of each expolrable. the only change would be number of enemies.

Just to clarify, every zone would still contain all of its normal enemies, with the addition of 2-4 of these groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

So that meens to beat this strategy, is go inn with a surten team build a few times, go out and take the build you actual want and go in the area again.

That would indeed work, if you were the only player completely vanquishing areas in a particular region, like the Echovald Forest, over the most recent two day period. And to get your build saved, you'd have to complete a vanquish.

So the exploit would be:

1. Pay off the entire active playerbase not to vanquish in an entire region for two days.

2. Complete a vanquish with a build you wanted to face.

3. Re-vanquish, content in the knowledge that you will know the enemy builds for the area you'll be re-vanquishing.

I guess I'm not too concerned about anyone going to such ridiculous lengths to vanquish something twice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

so your just going to go ahead and assume that everyone has all 3 campaigns...

Since it's HM, I'm going to assume players are OK with a challenge. I also don't really buy into the idea that players of one campaign are powerless against skills from a campaign they don't have. But that could be a difference of opinion.

MagmaRed · Mar 23, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

So you think Anet will suddenly abandon its campaign setup for skills? Monks in Factions can't use Healer's Boon, but if HB is used enough by people vanquishing in Factions, the monsters will suddenly be using this skill? I don't see Anet doing that. And I still don't see how Anet's servers could handle the amount of info this would entail. How many people vanquish, how many areas are vanquished, how many various builds are used, how many types of monsters are there, etc., etc., etc.

I think the idea of a random monster generator would be decent, but this idea is not.

trankle · Mar 23, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

So you think Anet will suddenly abandon its campaign setup for skills? Monks in Factions can't use Healer's Boon, but if HB is used enough by people vanquishing in Factions, the monsters will suddenly be using this skill? I don't see Anet doing that. And I still don't see how Anet's servers could handle the amount of info this would entail. How many people vanquish, how many areas are vanquished, how many various builds are used, how many types of monsters are there, etc., etc., etc.

I think the idea of a random monster generator would be decent, but this idea is not.

Keep in mind that regular enemies would have exactly the same skills as they do now. The only enemies affected would be 2-4 groups per area. That's it.

That said, what exactly would the problem be for a player playing in HM Cantha to encounter a Monk using Healer's Boon, or an Ele using Searing Flames? I understand that a Factions only player can't use those skills, but what exactly is the fundamental problem with a Factions only player encountering enemies with those skills (in HM only)?

stanzhao · Mar 23, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

honestly, think about what your saying... i cant be bothered to keep typing the same thing and over and over.

it would be extreemly unbalanced for a player who owns prophecies only to face mobs with skills from all 3 campaigns + eotn + pve only skills... in HM

trankle · Mar 23, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Stating something doesn't make it true.

Why would it be imbalanced? Can you think of a situation where a Prophecies only player would be unable to defeat a group utilizing skills from all campaigns, assuming the player was skilled? Weren't you talking about how bad the AI was a few posts back?

And isn't HM optional?

Sage Tylos · Mar 23, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

That said, what exactly would the problem be for a player playing in HM Cantha to encounter a Monk using Healer's Boon, or an Ele using Searing Flames? I understand that a Factions only player can't use those skills, but what exactly is the fundamental problem with a Factions only player encountering enemies with those skills (in HM only)?

I'll agree with you there. For a long time I had only Prophecies and EotN. As I went around the various zones in EotN I ran into enemies with skills from factions and NF. Obviously, I wasn't familiar with these skills; but this didn't stop me from owning every red dot on the radar.

As for your actual suggestion, I agree with those who say that it would be much easier to have multiple builds for enemies and have builds randomly assigned to individual enemies. That would spice things up a good deal without being anywhere near as complicated as your suggestion. The only thing I would add to that idea is that the builds should be significantly different. For example, the possible builds for a warrior enemy should not be:
[fgj (pve)][executioner's strike][body blow][dismember] and [fgj (pve)][galrath slash][body blow][sever artery][gash]
In that example, there's almost no difference in functionality.

Arduin · Mar 23, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Why would it be imbalanced? Can you think of a situation where a Prophecies only player would be unable to defeat a group utilizing skills from all campaigns, assuming the player was skilled? Weren't you talking about how bad the AI was a few posts back?

I think I would have a helluva problem vanquishing areas with monsters that are using Searing Flames, God Avatars and Shadow Form, with only henchies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

And isn't HM optional?

So it's okay to wreck a players experience because it's optional, as in 'if you don't like it don't play it?'.

trankle · Mar 23, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

I think I would have a helluva problem vanquishing areas with monsters that are using Searing Flames, God Avatars and Shadow Form, with only henchies.

I would too.

But then, I can think of more than a few areas in Proph that I'd question my ability to vanquish as a Proph-only player using all henchies. Lornar's, Twin Serpent, Ice Floe, Eastern Frontier, etc.

I could see the wisdom of this feature not kicking in if a team were comprised of more than half henchmen. This would eliminate the threat to hench only players in any campaign, but provide the challenge to players using heroes or human team-mates.

For the record, I don't think there's anything special about any of the skills you listed that couldn't be handled using only Proph/core skills. But I do see the point about all hench teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

So it's okay to wreck a players experience because it's optional, as in 'if you don't like it don't play it?'.

I guess I already see HM as 'if you don't like it, don't play it'. It's an optional mode, meant for those who are looking for more difficulty than NM.

Arduin · Mar 23, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

For the record, I don't think there's anything special about any of the skills you listed that couldn't be handled using only Proph/core skills. But I do see the point about all hench teams.

I know I vanquished Tyria using [[Broad Head Arrow] to shut down casters en masse, and I suppose it would be 10 times harder when not able to reliably shut down casters (aka as 3 Dolyak Masters...). [[Concussion Shot] is kinda meh because of the fast casting of foes in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

I guess I already see HM as 'if you don't like it, don't play it'. It's an optional mode, meant for those who are looking for more difficulty than NM.

Make an UM (Ultra Mode). It would not be fair to make HM harder for the players that haven't started HM yet, compared to the people that already have completed HM. This way, your idea would be truly optional.

Eragon Zarroc · Mar 24, 2009, 01:58 AM // 01:58

It would be nice to have random builds on the monsters, but have ones that are created by anet, not recorded from peeps. and it would be hilarious if there was a mode where monsters had max pve skills =D

Incandecree · Mar 24, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

ANet can create a pool of builds for the enemies to have. Not crap builds but ones the enemies can use. The community could give ideas for the builds.

When the zone is instanced the groups are already "static" with professions but the builds are pulled from the pool of builds. It would be random each time you instance. Mind you it would be a little more work for ANet but they would have to match weapons with the builds as well. It would be random. It would give players a bit more variety.