Curse

Konig Des Todes · Mar 06, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

That would be really ridiculously idiotic, if anet would do this, because Ninjas are only a cultural origin of the Assassin.
Ninjas are nothing else, then Assassins, only with a different Name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja

Actually Ninjas were closer to mercenaries then assassins, in other words, they are people for hire *do any job, not just killing*. Other then that, I say you have a good idea for the Assassin profession. But what I ment by 2 professions, is call the Asian Assassin idea a ninja and add the persian concept under Assassin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I play Assassin.
I'm not a blind Assassin fanboi. There's a difference.

You say that but yet your main point, as it seemed to me, was insulting sins in general, I notice that you removed something that I, unfortunatly, did not get a chance to read, but I will say that before I pointed out you lay an assassin, you seemed to insult all assassins. When you say your "not a blind assassin fanboi," I can agree with insulting them, but not the profession as a whole, which it seems to me you failed to state, unless I miss something even though I read through what you said a good number of times.

Edit: Just for the heck of it, i read through all of your arguements Stormlord, you only once plainly say that people don't know how to play them, and that all four added professions have overpowering faults, such as para's shouts *which btw, can be stripped by a necro*. But for the most part you said that it was the profession, not the player that is at fault. If you do say that it is the player, not the profession, then I cannot disagree with you, there are too many idiots who tank on sins. However, 'sins as a profession I think was a good idea, it allows a challenge to those who like playing as melee, how? simple, less armor, you can't aggro all the time or your dead, which is the main reason why I love sins so much.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 06, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

If you do say that it is the player, not the profession, then I cannot disagree with you, there are too many idiots who tank on sins. However, 'sins as a profession I think was a good idea, it allows a challenge to those who like playing as melee, how? simple, less armor, you can't aggro all the time or your dead, which is the main reason why I love sins so much.

Less PvE perspective, please.
This is talking about how 'sins screw things up from a PvP perspective.

Essentially, shadow stepping and the attack chain system are what make 'sins such a 'bad' class...
- Shadow steps remove all of the skill of positioning and kiting, two of the fundamental concepts of play in Guild Wars.
- Attack chains... ugh. They're too overly powerful, if fragile. Dealing 500 damage in 4 seconds is not healthy for the game, instagib is baed. No, I know they're called 'assassins', now gtfo - instagib is baed in GW.
And inflexible as well - with it's low base armour and pathetic DPS, and the whole bar consumed by a 1234567 chain, an assassin cannot pressure, disrupt or anything else that make melee in general such a wonderful part of GW. All the assassin can ever hope to achieve is insta-gank a single target, and that is all.

On top of that, there's the whole not-taking-any-skill-to-play thing, the self-imposed limit on what the class can do (compare SP to a shockaxe - the shockaxe can spike, pressure, disrupt; the SP can gank or fail), and the overly annoying following of narutards who cry too much when people speak the truth about assassins, and... yeah, well. You get the idea.

and yes, I play assassin still - they still look damn cool

And tearing on the same scrub over and over in AB till he ragequits is a guilty pleasure of mine.

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 07, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

And tearing on the same scrub over and over in AB till he ragequits is a guilty pleasure of mine.

it's a sport among sins

yea i don't use the instagib spikes anymore i've been messing around with [card]Moebius Strike[/card] -> [card]Horns of the Ox[/card] to keep casters on the ground and i have to say....its really fun

Div · Mar 07, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

If assassins were in GW2, then the game is officially turning into WoW. Because after the disaster balancing sins in GW, you'd think that if they wanted a balanced game, they wouldn't put it in GW2. With that said, I could careless if they're added or not. I like PvE ^_^

street peddler · Mar 07, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I dont care if theyre in GW2...as long as the only thing that carries over is the name, ditch everything else about the class.

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 08, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Guild Wars 2 needs the 6 core classes. That's it and nothing more.

^ Read people. READ.

FlamingMetroid · Mar 08, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Guild Wars 2 needs the 6 core classes. That's it and nothing more.

I personally find the core classes too boring compared to the assassin, thats why I want to see it improved in GW2 rather than dropped.

kerpall · Mar 08, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If assassins were in GW2, then the game is officially turning into WoW.

Well, as posted (i quit counting..) several times. Please everybody read what is in this link.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ash_Legion

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW2 Wiki

The Ash Legion is one of the four legions of the Charr. The Ash Legion is famed for its stalkers and Assassins. Known members of its primus warband include Ghast Ashpyre and Rox Ashreign. It is not known whether War Ashenskull belonged to the Ash warband or the hypothetical Ashen warband, as Charr surnames generally use the warband's name as a prefix.

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 08, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

Well, as posted (i quit counting..) several times. Please everybody read what is in this link.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ash_Legion

I already knew that. But theres always hope...

Vasallus · Mar 13, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Take Sins out, keep Rits, Dervs, ditch Paragons, keep Warrior, Monk, Ele, Necro, Ranger, and Mesmer.

The new races are enough. Why do we need new classes when the ones we have, save for Paragon and Sins, are effective enough already?

It's a well balanced class system, I don't want it messed up by some flashy one use class.

Celeborn10 · Mar 13, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasallus

Take Sins out, keep Rits, Dervs, ditch Paragons, keep Warrior, Monk, Ele, Necro, Ranger, and Mesmer.

The new races are enough. Why do we need new classes when the ones we have, save for Paragon and Sins, are effective enough already?

It's a well balanced class system, I don't want it messed up by some flashy one use class.

It seems to me that Assassins only really became a serious problem when Anet came out with NF and SP. Before then AoD was relatively balanced and promoted at least some thoughtful play. Now is spike play degenerative? If yes, then please consider consider even playing with the warrior:

"Anyway the point is that if you are a pure spike warrior you are degrading yourself and probably losing skill every second that you play. I did learn a lot about warrior when I was spiking, but that's mostly because I didnt really play warrior before that, and we split a lot in TT. You can't do whatever you want in spike builds.. build adren... 321, build adren 321. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING DRAW ME OR WE LOSE THE GAME. yeah.... at least I got good at calling spikes on warrior without giving them away." (Team Quitter, Smgzor)

Playing a pure spike build is degenerative and doesn't require too much skill other than coordinating over Vent. However a spike that takes up little of the bar leaving room for disruption in the form of knockdowns and interrupts is golden. The epitome of this is the W/E ShockAxe build, which even AoD hardly compares to. Such a flexible bar gives the player more control and lets the skill of the player dictate the effectiveness of their bar. If anything ANet should have given Assassins more disruptive utility and perhaps expanded on their skill shut down better (focusing on creating windows of opportunity like how blackout was used) instead of trying to create a melee class with movement shutdown.

Farcry Deathblade · Mar 14, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

forgive me for only reading the first page, but since the mainland (tyria) is broken off from cantha and elona, wouldn't that get rid of the ability for classes from those lands to exist en masse in gw2?

Admael · Mar 14, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

I always thought that the "asian" ninjas were just farmers.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 14, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

No, Assassins were introduced in Factions, and orginated in Cantha.
Yet, as we can observe in EoTn, Culture have Spread allover Tyria.
Which makes Sins a possible Profession in GW2.

And the people who make a Mockery of Paras, Mes, Sins and Rits are obviously, Arrogant and Retarded.
Other people hate Sins cause they kill them fast or they are counted as Newbs when portaying as Sin.
But most reason is People flame bout Sins alot, making them think Sins are Crap too.
Like what's happening in WoW, I have never played Warcraft Games, but I'll never flame bout it cause I have never tried the game.
Also Paras are insulted cause people believe Paras do nothing in battle and Spears are weak.
Well actually Spears can deal more damage than Bows, But bows are able to cause more Conditions.
And Paras are good Energy Maintainers and Spikers/Buffers.
Rits were called Useless before cause of the Immobility of Spirits, and the belief of Channeling Magic and Restoration Magic are just weak copycats.
Lastly, Mesmers are hated cause they Shutdown People alot and people make fun of the Extravagant Clothes(sometimes insulted as Gay, and Nothing is wrong with homosexuality, those who believe homosexuality is taboo are morons).

adam of phyrexia · Mar 14, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

And the people who make a Mockery of Paras, Mes, Sins and Rits are obviously, Arrogant and Retarded.

MC flamed! I'm shocked and pleasantly amused

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 14, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Hmph, I get angry at people who insults people.
I don't Flame that much, but once someone starts insulting it ticks me off.
If its a insult from a Constructive Critiscm it's all fine, but if it is just to degrade one's Stati and causing sadness, pain or anger, IT'S ON!

NO SMILIES!

System_Crush · Mar 14, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admael

I always thought that the "asian" ninjas were just farmers.

Actually Ninjitsu was a martial art developed by healers turned killer, they used their knowledge of anatomy to create what is arguably worlds most effective martial art.

Before commoners where forbidden to own swords however I think precursors of samurai popped up. Cuz I heard of something called a 'Farmer's Katana' once, which is way older larger and heavier than the well known versions.
ALso unlike the Dai-Katana it was forged of inferior quality iron instead of the superb materials a true katana is made out of.

===========================================

At the subject though, I'm unsure how the suggested change would affect assassins though.
They would still attack quickly and crit a lot, they would still have attacks with plenty additional damage; they would just not be able to use those in chains, they would instead use them with an opening.

To get rid of the problem with sins, their ability to gank should be dummed down and their ability to survive at the front line needs to become less cheap tricks([skill=text]Shadow Form[/skill]) and more actual skill.

To this I'd have them prepare/plan assassinations, instead of all their chain attack skills they get "Your next successful melee attack causes Blind and Bleeding" that stack with each other up to a limit decided by the primary, or have 3/4 types of which 1 each could be used.
They would still have attack skills, but those aren't nearly as strong as they are now.

They would also gain a few defensive skills that aren't as focused on block and miss chances, but more on reducing damage or preventing KD and interupts.
Add more quickly recharging shadow steps and you have a class that would act very differently.

They would buff up with an assassination, hit the enemy monk/boss who then suffers a bunsh of conditions, damage and possibly other debuffs.
He then shadow step to safety, to either use deadly arts dagger throwing skills or ready another set of assassination skills(which would have 1 or 2 sec casting times)

So instead of a hounding class that ganks a target by repeating heavy spikes(which is an ele's job) it would be a class that preforms tactical strikes from a (hopefully) safe position and that is able to prevent interference of foes in its preparations with defensive enchantments and midranged vengeance attacks.

I think a deadly arts stance that "throws a dagger at anyone in range striking you with an attack, when it was an attack skill the effects of the skill also apply to the dagger" would be a pretty good skill for a new type of defense the assassin could have.

FlamingMetroid · Mar 14, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Actually Ninjitsu was a martial art developed by healers turned killer, they used their knowledge of anatomy to create what is arguably worlds most effective martial art.

I don't believe this is true, the knowledge of anatomy has less to do with Ninjutsu, than fluid natural, movement which is what the martial art is about.
Also Ninjutsu is the martial art, Ninjitsu is the philosophy behind it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Ninjutsu was developed by groups of people mainly from the Iga Province and Kōka, Shiga of Japan. Throughout history the shinobi have been seen as assassins for hire, and have been associated in the public imagination with other activities which are considered criminal by modern standards. Although thought to have come from Chinese expatriates ninjutsu is believed by its adherents to be of Japanese origin. It is believed to be strongly influenced by the strategic principles of Sun Tzu. Throughout history many different schools (or ryū) were developed which taught their unique version of ninjutsu. An example of these is the Togakure-ryū. This ryū was developed after a defeated samurai warrior called Daisuke Togakure escaped to the region of Iga. Later he came in contact with the warrior-monk Kain Doshi who taught him a new way of viewing life and the means of survival (ninjutsu)

I believe this is more correct, and I've heard it from other sources as well. I'm no ninja though, so I don't know for sure, the whole origin thing is pretty cloudy.

But on topic now, I don't like the deadly arts line, we have an entire class designed to hex the crap out of things, sins can borrow from them or have them on their team. The whole thrown weapon thing that everybody seems enamored with, looks to me more like a novelty ability than one thats actually effective.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 14, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

What's wrong with sins anyway?
Please list'em down maybe I can think of a Solution.

BlackSephir · Mar 14, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

What's wrong with sins anyway?
Please list'em down maybe I can think of a Solution.

There's no solution.
The problem with As in GW1 is: instagib and shadowsteps.
This could be of course easily avoided and fixed in GW2 (hell, I think even in GW1), making As a versatile meele class, like meele GW1 ranger and as suggested many times here, on Guru.
Stances, interrupts, conditions, snares- As of GW2 - what's wrong with that?
But that's not the problem. The problem are retards who can't stop shouting "DELETE DELETE! CORE CLASS CORE CLASS!!" because they don't think. They don't think, thus don't realize that even if a class is, in fact, broken in GW1, it doesn't have to be broken in GW2, in a whole new game.

I'll give you an example

Quote:

if assassins are in GW2, I'm not buying it

See? The subject is unable to use his imagination. He assumes that if something works (or doesn't) in GW 1 in some way, it will be the same (or worse) in GW 2.
Last time I checked, there's no cure.
The subject doesn't realize that right now, before the game is out, might be a good moment to make some good, non-retarded suggestions for non-instagib sins without shadow steps.

Of course there's always the possibility of AN not listening, like with SP nerf: -hey AN, make stances unusable with sp
-huh, shorten duration? np.

But I honestly think it's better to keep on reminding them than to say how a class in a game that isn't even out won't work.