Curse

isildorbiafra · Feb 02, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Can you emagine how your suggestion would affect the w8?

No Team Joined. Restarting Clock x100; because of a lack of professions in the outpost.

Raul the Rampant · Feb 02, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Not only is attempting to balance teams in RA to have a preset number of healers, casters, and physicals a poor idea in general, but it is also completely unrealistic. While it might be possible to have a program put together certain professions in various combinations, this would do nothing to guarantee that these professions are actually doing the jobs that have been assigned to them in the original proposal:

Monks: There is this little attribute line called "smiting prayers," is there not? Not every monk is a healer, and ignoring this fact will just cause more problems. Why is a team with a smiter going to keep playing when they could simply die and get a new one with a healer? What is going to keep the other team members for reporting this monk for not doing his/her "job" and healing? Nothing, and this just creates a new mess for the system. Plus there's no guarantee that the monk is any good anyway, and I know I'm not the only one who would rather have 4 good non-monks than 3 good players and a crap monk.

Ritualists: What do we do with these? Sometimes they heal, but sometimes they don't. A rit healer on a team with a monk healer would not fit the proposed guidelines for "balance," but a damage channeling or spirit spammer would. The throw in those ones that are actually Spirit's Strength assassins, and then what?

Necro/Rits: Uh-oh. Yeah, most of these tend to be healers, too, but their primary class would suggest that they would count as casters, leading to "unbalanced" teams. But wait! Maybe they just arbitrarily chose that as a secondary and have no rit skills on their bar. Then what? Or maybe they just have Death Pact Sig. There's too many possible variations.

Ele/Monk: These are pretty rare, but they're out there. Leads to the same problems as N/Rt, does it not?

Dervish/Monk: I've seen this combination monk teams to glad points in TA, and it can be surprising effective in the right hands. Are we then not going to allow D/Mo to be on the same team as a Monk or Rit?

And so on and so forth.

Plus I don't see how rigging RA to not be random anymore solves any of these:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Player 1: *Runs around with running build*
Player 1: *Reports everyone on his team*
Player 1: *Rinse/Repeats last two line items*

or

Player 1: Lost comms with server
Player 2-4: /report Player 1
Player 1: Sits in lobby d-hexed "Darn dial-up ._."

or

Player 1: "We have no/too many monk(s). This will be going nowhere fast! Time will be wasted.. :/
Player 1: *Rushes in to die quickly and reroll another team*
Player 2-4: /report Player 1 (leeching)
Player 2-4: *Die*

or

Player 1: Warrior *uses Orison and mend ailment*
Players 2-4: *Die one by one*
Player 1: /report Player 2-4 *while taunting them rudely before they leave*
Player 1: Rinse/Repeat

Situation 1 is going to happen regardless of how teams are made up. It's not like people who use these running builds get to change their skills once they enter the battle... they enter with that build fully aware that they could end up on an otherwise capable team that fits that "balanced" example you're after. These people do this simply to tick everyone else off, and rigging it so that every team fits your definition of good (which most of us here would say is flawed anyway) is only going to make this tactic of griefing more effective; as the destructiveness of a running build to the success of the other players is increased, the frequency with which they will appear will also increase. Furthermore, forcing every team to have a monk opens the doors to new types of griefer abuse: anyone want to guess how many of these runners will simply reroll a monk and the practice their 55ing skills in the arenas? My money's on a substantial amount...

Situation 2 is completely irrelevant as far as forcing teams to be balanced. Profession is completely independent from connection availability and strength. That said, reporting the player for leeching in that case could very well be justified. Consider a player that has a connection that causes them to load well after the battle has started (say 30 seconds or more) on a regular basis. While that player is not getting credited the faction for the kills recorded during that time, they are (in most cases) putting their team at a sizable disadvantage. If this occurs regularly (occasionally is excusable, but if you're that late 25% of the time or more that's not) that player is damaging the experience of the rest of the community and should not be attempting to PvP anyway. At times when the number of players is low (either overall or there's just a lack of a particular profession) the same players see each other pretty often and can identify some sort of pattern to justify the reporting of this person.

Situation 3 is probably the most legitimate, but still flawed. Chances are that if one person reaches that conclusion the others will be soon to follow; if they're not capable of seeing that a 3 healer team cannot hope to defeat a team with a substantial amount of caster hate or melee pressure chances are they won't know how to use the /report function in coordination, either, and will actually give themselves dishonor points in the process.

Actually players 2-4 would likely be reporting the warrior in situation 4, not the other way around. When something like this happens it's when the team also has a healer and the warrior (usually new to PvP) uses Mending or Life Attunement. A good team will continue with the battle knowing they can compensate and that the person will learn as they get more experience; a bad team, well, will be bad and probably wouldn't have gotten very far anyway. Plus, since the warrior in that quoted situation is the only one reporting he/she simply gave his/herself dishonor points instead (at least 2, but since 3 reports were made am I right in assuming 6 would be given?) More often, however, this type of scenario would play out like it did in situation 1 where the player is running a build that is generally considered unacceptable (like a straight trap ranger, toucher, or 55). For rigged teams to help fix these there would have to be some mechanism for checking and classifying builds, which is neither realistic or logical.

Copenhagen Master · Mar 31, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

The dishonorable system is stupid. I report leechers and I get dishonored, only becuase others will not report? Now I know why others won't report they probably don't want to get dishonored thereselves.

desrtrat · Mar 31, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

So let me get this straight..you treat RA so seriously that you quit if there's not a Monk on the team?? Nice..thanks for screwing the other 3 people who may have won anyway, in spite of not having a Monk. I've done it plenty.. and I'll be the first to admit I suck bad at PvP. I think people like you are exactly the reason DH came about. I thought RA was a learning/testing ground? *shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong, but I just play the game for fun..

Kanyatta · Mar 31, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copenhagen Master

The dishonorable system is stupid. I report leechers and I get dishonored, only becuase others will not report? Now I know why others won't report they probably don't want to get dishonored thereselves.

On the flip side, there have been a few times when I was in a CM and the countdown timer before a match is 1:10 or something like that, so, just for giggles, even though I loaded around 1:04, I just waited for the timer to get to about 0:08 before running to the portal to transport you. While waiting for the timer to get down to mere seconds left, I got reported for leeching. The match hasn't even started yet!

HawkofStorms · Mar 31, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Dishonor and report works 10 times better then not having it at all, where you will get rage quitters every single fight 5 seconds into a match.

And frankly, I have never seen a suggestion on this forum by people who complain about dishonor that would be better (without destroying the meaning of the word "random" and also completely ignore that there is no way a computer could actually set up "balanced" teams when people are allowed to run unconventional builds like a monk with smiting [which a computer might just think is a healer] or a N/R with a pet and bow).

People complain about the existence of dishonor, but never have any constructive idea on what to replace it with. It's fine as is. It's not perfect, but its better then the ideas people on guru come up with.

Edit: Didn't realize this was a thread necro. Recognized the OP's avatar too late. @Copenhagen Master, if you want to res an old thread about dishonor, do so with something constructive besides "dishonor sucks." Post constructively or don't post at all. Keep your raging quiet.

Jeydra · Apr 01, 2009, 07:31 AM // 07:31

I absolutely disagree with this change, reasons being:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegulusX

The reasons why people left were because they understood that no monk means no win. Anyone knows that monks are essential to gaming in GW. PvE and PvP both REQUIRE some form of healing to succeed in their objective and anyone caught trying to stray away from this fact will be regarded as either ignorant or lacking common sense by anybody that does have common sense.

Wrong. You don't NEED Monks to win. Yes a good Monk is a strong advantage, but to say they are necessary is just wrong. I just earned a 10-win streak from RA with me on blindbot, two Rangers and a Necro with Flare (yes the three of us carried him in the wins). We beat teams with Monks and beat teams with two healers. What's your point? A strong advantage in skill can compensate for not having a Monk. I will stick my neck out here and say that whenever I click enter battle and I'm not a Monk, I would rather have 3 competent players than a single competent Monk + 2 randoms.

If you're saying that teams with healers should be preferentially matched against other teams with healers, I'm positive such code is already in place. That's why you could go many matches with no Monk, switch to Monk and then voila, find yourself in a party with 3 Monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegulusX

Player 1: *Runs around with running build*
Player 1: *Reports everyone on his team*
Player 1: *Rinse/Repeats last two line items*

or

Player 1: Lost comms with server
Player 2-4: /report Player 1
Player 1: Sits in lobby d-hexed "Darn dial-up ._."

or

Player 1: "We have no/too many monk(s). This will be going nowhere fast! Time will be wasted.. :/
Player 1: *Rushes in to die quickly and reroll another team*
Player 2-4: /report Player 1 (leeching)
Player 2-4: *Die*

or

Player 1: Warrior *uses Orison and mend ailment*
Players 2-4: *Die one by one*
Player 1: /report Player 2-4 *while taunting them rudely before they leave*
Player 1: Rinse/Repeat

When situation one happens, player 1 naturally gets dishonor. Have you ever done it? I bet not. If you report more than one ally and nobody else does it with you you get dishonor (I didn't know that either until I actually did it), so in fact I've not seen the first situation happen.

Situation two is rare. Again I've not seen it happen actually. There are few enough people who /report, and I don't report someone who loses connection with the server. Plus you don't get instant dishonor for getting reported. You can leave games once every hour, remember?

Situation three happens quite a bit and is entirely fair. Player 1 deserves to be reported, and with three people reporting him he might as well have left the game and earned the dishonor points anyway. My only problem with this is that there might not be enough people who report him, which lets him do it again. In any case whenever this happens I add the guy to my friend's with a silent promise never to Monk for him again.

Situation four is similar to situation 1.

Having to deal with bad players is a fact of life in RA. The changes you're proposing kills a lot of the distinctive style that is RA. If you're guaranteed a healer every time you hit enter, self-heals would be a lot less meaningful. If you're guaranteed a physical character, melee hate would skyrocket because you'll always have a target. So would caster hate. What gives?

Summary: absolutely disagree with your suggestions. You say GW is suppose to be fun, well let me tell you: I find RA to be fun right now. If you find it stressful, by all means, don't play RA.

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 01, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

random arena is random. if u don't want the chance of randomly getting a bad player, do not play in random arena. if u purposely abandon teams, u should be punished, no matter what the team composition is. part of playing in random arena is knowing that u could end up playing with a team that has "random" idiots. it's part of the game. go away.

As for TA being filled with abusers, bah. Taking advantage of skill combinations that are better than others is not abuse. it's called intelligence. find a way to counter it or run the same thing only better. stop QQ'ing

tadevil · Apr 01, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Uh..you want Random Arena's reomoved and Balanced Arena's implemented? If you want balanced teams go to Team Arena's, that's what it's there for after all, if you play Random Arena's and get an unbalanced team suck it up and take your chances instead of QQing, it's random and always will be after all it's called Random Arena's it's supposed to be random!

Orange Milk · Apr 02, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted byRegulus X
This is a serious problem in RA.

RA is not serious, therefore it can have no serious problems.

If you take RA seriously and fram it for Glad points for hours a day you are seriously doing PvP wrong.

The report system is kinda, meh.

The dishonorable Hex however I feel works rather well, sure it bugs sometimes, but the point of it was to reduce leavers in AB and RA and that is what has happened.

God forbid you have to wait out an entire 8 minutes because of a griefer.

Get a life.