Curse

Regulus X · Feb 01, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Particularly for Random Arenas. Too many players often abuse of the report system simply because.. well, they CAN.

Players bring intentionally inferior builds with the intent of anguishing legitimately competitive players, forcing them to choose between wasting time dieing to the opposing team and facing their ridicule (or) mapping out, incurring penalties and eventually the D-Hex. Automated timeouts is a pretty lazy way of handling things.

My proposal: Either expunge these two systems that have plagued players for September 2007, or simply keep them in place and create a system of BALANCE in RA for the sake of minimizing hostility and rewarding players with the hope for a better match-up 'next time'.

By balance, I mean make it so that all teams come with (1) healer, (1-2) caster(s) of any sort, and (1-2) physical attacker(s) of any sort (detected via programming).

Once in effect, this change will:

Balance the Competition
Reduce premature leaving (drastically)
Minimize Hostility

I firmly believe in our Live Team and sincerely hope that they look into the possibilities of making this positive proposal a reality.

Puebert · Feb 01, 2009, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Random arenas is random, you can't balance it with 1 healer, 1/2 casters, and 1-2 physicals, thats just dumb.

The only change I want to see about the Dishonorable system is to make it that you only get the hex if you leave 2 or 3 matches in a row or something, so you can still leave one early if there is a griefer.

warrior running · Feb 01, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

If u don't like it play TA and be will make no more huge changes guarnteed cause of gw2

Regulus X · Feb 01, 2009, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Random (balanced) is random. TA is near-empty for a reason (everyone would rather bypass time wasted grouping). Go check it out for yourself. Also, TA has alot of abusive group team-builds like Smiter/Life-Steal Rt/Healer/Derv|War|Sin|etc.. which is OP'd and lame.

My suggestion stands strongly. If ya'll don't like my suggestions, kindly say so or don't say it at all. No verbal defication will be tolerated on this topic. It is a serious problem in RA currently. If ya'll agree to leave things as they are now, then you simply want this abuse to continue (in my eyes) because this is what happens on the daily.

Players abuse the rest because there's no other alternative. Those that give up because they fully grasp the fact that no healer = no glory get reported abusively (which is wrong). Leeching means that the player stands there with the intent on drawing balthazar faction and glad points without doing anything, not because they're frustrated in the anticipation of another lost match and time wasted; it's not accurate to accuse a player whose experience with groups tells him there's no hope, yet, is forced to lose and swallow his pride. That's why players IDLE and stand there (not to leech, but to submit to their forseen defeat).

RA's in a state of what is called 'imbalance' and I merely suggest that Anet introduce 'balance' to RA. Random = Random still, simply with added 'balance'. Balance is good and will bring forth the good changes indicated in the OP. If ya'll are against it then you simply want things to stay hostile and unpleasant. The purpose of gaming should be to have fun, not cause stress. RA causes alot of stress because of the D-Hex and abusers taking full advantage of it.

I vote to bring balance to RA. It'll most definitely, positively impact player's gaming experiences there.

KIDGOOCH · Feb 01, 2009, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I got reported in Beetle Racing, because I had to download all the files now I have a dishonorable something or other on my account and I can't play the games. Where is the logic on this!!!

Derrick the Nomad · Feb 01, 2009, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Resigning from beetle races appears to give you dishonorable points. Please fix this.

AnClar · Feb 01, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Good luck getting ANet to do anything about the broken, pointless Dishonor system. Or the broken RA. The topic has been discussed at length both here as well as on the GW Wiki, and nothing is going to happen. What about peeps who get d/c'ed in the middle of matches. They get dishonor points as well which sucks IMHO.

There is NO way for the GW servers to know WHY someone is not on anymore, only the fact that they are not there is known to the servers. So balanced teams or griefers...doesn't matter. Dishonor is FUBAR.

As others have pointed out, random is random. If you don't like getting teams of 3 Mo's and a R, or 4 Me's, or whatever, then don't play RA. Sync teams are also a big factor in RA brokenness that ANet has shown no interest in fixing. So RA is broken, Dishonor is broken. All the QQ in the world ain't gonna change it. Either live with it or don't RA. Sorry but them's the facts, like 'em or not.

Regulus X · Feb 01, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

RA is broken (indeed) and this thread is to ask them for fixture. I understand that they don't get monthly income from we the community, but I figured there's nothing to be lost in asking them. I like to RA, but I'd rather compete in a sensibly balanced RA rather than an abuse-filled RA. If they created and enforced this balancing system, it'd be for the better of gameplay and fun. Random + Balance = (Better) Random.

The community seems to dislike change.. and for the better? What if Random Arenas was balanced from the very beginning? What would the mindset of the community be then? What's not random about instilling balance? Does the community like having a team of 4 monks, rits, necros, mesmers, etc.. vs. a balanced team? Would it not be better to have good balanced teams duking it out? Can you imagine not having bitter players running grieving builds or rushing into the enemy group to die fast simply because there's no balance on their side?

It would be best for the Dev's to have this idea be made alive.

Div · Feb 01, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

I don't get why random arenas needs to be programmed to form non-random balanced teams.

I may be missing something here, but isn't random arenas supposed to be, you know, random? And also a very casual form of PvP where you're expected to have some good teams and some bad ones?

Want more organization but suck at TA? Go AB.

Reverend Dr · Feb 01, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Players bring intentionally inferior builds with the intent of anguishing legitimately competitive players

Are you sure these aren't just people playing RA to pass the time? I mean I remember when it was called "competition arenas" but everyone laughed at anyone considering it 'competitive' rather than 'random.'

If you are that perturbed by 'bad' players in RA, either go TA or sync into RA.

MirkoTeran · Feb 01, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

BALANCE in RA

OK... Random != balanced. People should know that by now. Random

daraaksii · Feb 01, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Bad idea is bad idea.

/notsigned.

ele pl · Feb 01, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

/notsigned
Randomness in random arenas is what makes them random, and so that they can be called random arenas. Ofc, Sync is factor that is destroying the holy randomness, and this should be main Live Team's job, not fixing report system. I understand, that report system is broken in Rollerbeetle racing for example, but games like that are too rare too rare to be taken srsly by Live Team.

Fix Sync
/signed

HawkofStorms · Feb 01, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

/notsigned

Dishonor works exactly as intended in RA. RA was a nightmare before dishonor. You'd get a 4 on 4 fight maybe once every 5 fights, because some idiot W/x would always go "NO MONK *ragequit*!" right at the start (even though the other team didn't have a monk either).
Dishonor allows fights to be fair and FUN (it's not fun to be constantly steamrolled in 4v2s because people ragequit). Since dishonor has been implemented, I have never gotten dishonor. If you don't rage quit, it doesn't affect you at all. It only harms the behavior it was designed to stop in the first place.

Believe it or not, you don't "need" the "perfect" build to succeed in RA. I've gotten 15 wins in a row (ie 5 in TA) with a team with 1 EDA dervish, 1 sin, and 2 ineptitude mesmers. No healers, minimal condition and hex removal. Just good old fashioned shutdown and quick use of res sig chains.

RA is designed to teach you basic game mechanics, which it does quite well. Anybody who complains about not getting a healer in RA should play as a healer (because obviously you think a good team needs one). Anybody who wants a balanced team should play in TA/GvG/etc.

AnClar · Feb 01, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Dishonor works exactly as intended in RA. RA was a nightmare before dishonor. You'd get a 4 on 4 fight maybe once every 5 fights, because some idiot W/x would always go "NO MONK *ragequit*!" right at the start (even though the other team didn't have a monk either).
Dishonor allows fights to be fair and FUN (it's not fun to be constantly steamrolled in 4v2s because people ragequit). Since dishonor has been implemented, I have never gotten dishonor. If you don't rage quit, it doesn't affect you at all. It only harms the behavior it was designed to stop in the first place.

Believe it or not, you don't "need" the "perfect" build to succeed in RA. I've gotten 15 wins in a row (ie 5 in TA) with a team with 1 EDA dervish, 1 sin, and 2 ineptitude mesmers. No healers, minimal condition and hex removal. Just good old fashioned shutdown and quick use of res sig chains.

RA is designed to teach you basic game mechanics, which it does quite well. Anybody who complains about not getting a healer in RA should play as a healer (because obviously you think a good team needs one). Anybody who wants a balanced team should play in TA/GvG/etc.

I agree with your second and third points, but I have to disagree with your observation that Dishonor works perfectly. It does NOT in one key aspect. Sure, it minimizes ragequitters, but it also punishes players who don't ragequit and, through no fault of their own get d/c'ed in the middle of matches. If it happens in two matches in a row, "BINGO" you get a 10 minute dishonor block. Why should I, or anyone else who is dealing with an ISP problem, or an Internet traffic issue get shat upon by ANet for it? Unless there is a way to distinguish problem disconnects from deliberate ragequitting or griefing (and according to Gaile Gray this is not technologically possible) then the whole Dishonor system should be eliminated.

Puebert · Feb 01, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Random (balanced) is random. TA is near-empty for a reason (everyone would rather bypass time wasted grouping). Go check it out for yourself. Also, TA has alot of abusive group team-builds like Smiter/Life-Steal Rt/Healer/Derv|War|Sin|etc.. which is OP'd and lame.

My suggestion stands strongly. If ya'll don't like my suggestions, kindly say so or don't say it at all. No verbal defication will be tolerated on this topic. It is a serious problem in RA currently. If ya'll agree to leave things as they are now, then you simply want this abuse to continue (in my eyes) because this is what happens on the daily.

Players abuse the rest because there's no other alternative. Those that give up because they fully grasp the fact that no healer = no glory get reported abusively (which is wrong). Leeching means that the player stands there with the intent on drawing balthazar faction and glad points without doing anything, not because they're frustrated in the anticipation of another lost match and time wasted; it's not accurate to accuse a player whose experience with groups tells him there's no hope, yet, is forced to lose and swallow his pride. That's why players IDLE and stand there (not to leech, but to submit to their forseen defeat).

RA's in a state of what is called 'imbalance' and I merely suggest that Anet introduce 'balance' to RA. Random = Random still, simply with added 'balance'. Balance is good and will bring forth the good changes indicated in the OP. If ya'll are against it then you simply want things to stay hostile and unpleasant. The purpose of gaming should be to have fun, not cause stress. RA causes alot of stress because of the D-Hex and abusers taking full advantage of it.

I vote to bring balance to RA. It'll most definitely, positively impact player's gaming experiences there.

Pretty much anyone that treats RA this seriously has no idea that it is the weakest form of PvP. In my view TA should always be fixed over RA, because RA is never serious and you can run an empty skillbar and win.

Your suggestion 'stands' amongst all the other ones where people complain about not getting the team they wanted, in a random environment. The reason there is TA is so you can form your own ideal team if you want, so the "go play TA" suggestion still makes more sense than making balanced random teams.

About the leeching problem, it makes perfect sense that someone not doing anything deserves to get DH for leeching, even though their intention might not be to leech, but to just tell the team to give up. If they don't want to contribute but their other three team mates do, they should /resign and then keep playing anyway. Its bad enough people intentionally kill themselves, but its just as annoying when they stand there and do nothing. The DH still helps preventing people from just standing there.

There is no reason your suggestion should be implemented, its a waste of time on the developers part and completely destroys the random aspect of random arenas.

Regulus X · Feb 01, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

Pretty much anyone that treats RA this seriously has no idea that it is the weakest form of PvP. In my view TA should always be fixed over RA, because RA is never serious and you can run an empty skillbar and win.

Your suggestion 'stands' amongst all the other ones where people complain about not getting the team they wanted, in a random environment. The reason there is TA is so you can form your own ideal team if you want, so the "go play TA" suggestion still makes more sense than making balanced random teams.

About the leeching problem, it makes perfect sense that someone not doing anything deserves to get DH for leeching, even though their intention might not be to leech, but to just tell the team to give up. If they don't want to contribute but their other three team mates do, they should /resign and then keep playing anyway. Its bad enough people intentionally kill themselves, but its just as annoying when they stand there and do nothing. The DH still helps preventing people from just standing there.

There is no reason your suggestion should be implemented, its a waste of time on the developers part and completely destroys the random aspect of random arenas.

So leave RA and Dishonor systems broken, right? Why have RA then? Why not just expunge it from the game if that's the case? GW is meant to be for fun gaming, not stress induction. Sure, players used to leave and reroll alot back then, but the remaining competitors didn't have to stay and die. They had the option to follow suit and reroll another team and things used to be gravy.

The reasons why people left were because they understood that no monk means no win. Anyone knows that monks are essential to gaming in GW. PvE and PvP both REQUIRE some form of healing to succeed in their objective and anyone caught trying to stray away from this fact will be regarded as either ignorant or lacking common sense by anybody that does have common sense.

One more time: Random + Balanced = Random still! (just balanced)

Again, if balance were introduced, it would make RA a better place to compete. It would minimize hostility among players and would reduce the amount of players being hexed because this balance system would provide a positive hope for the next match-up to maybe be a bit better. I personally don't see why ya'll are afraid of changing things for the better.

No, RA is not the lowest form of PvP. You can get to rank 9 hero in just one weekend if you play your cards right; just try to get to rank 3 gladiator in a weekend and tell me if you succeed at it. Gladiator points are much harder to come by. In RA, you could be facing a team of 4 healers (which is BS if you ask me). Or you could have 3 monks on your own team (which is also BS).

Balance ought to be implemented to prevent these things. If the D-Hex is here to stay, then the balance system would make it more desirable to stay and game than to watch your 3 monks heal you while you try and take down 4 monks on the other side. These kinds of scenarios is what made people ragequit in the first place. Placing a balanced system in RA would negate any desire to leave because you'll say, "I got a balanced team. Let's do this! xD", each and every match. What's not to desire in that?

Do ya'll really want things to stay imbalanced for the sake of being 'random'? I think leaving things as they are will continue to enable abusers to have a reason to abuse other players in every which way. It'll give players the motive for entering with running builds to run around the arena and waste player's time, making them give up on competing simply because they've been abused by grieved players. This grief is caused by the DCS (D-Hex) as well as wrongful /reports that players all-to-often make. I see it all the time, too.

Player 1: *Runs around with running build*
Player 1: *Reports everyone on his team*
Player 1: *Rinse/Repeats last two line items*

or

Player 1: Lost comms with server
Player 2-4: /report Player 1
Player 1: Sits in lobby d-hexed "Darn dial-up ._."

or

Player 1: "We have no/too many monk(s). This will be going nowhere fast! Time will be wasted.. :/
Player 1: *Rushes in to die quickly and reroll another team*
Player 2-4: /report Player 1 (leeching)
Player 2-4: *Die*

or

Player 1: Warrior *uses Orison and mend ailment*
Players 2-4: *Die one by one*
Player 1: /report Player 2-4 *while taunting them rudely before they leave*
Player 1: Rinse/Repeat

Drama, drama, and more drama... Is it really needed? Do we really have to leave things broken and uncared for?

I vote to change the ways of RA once and for all. I hope the Live Team considers changing things in RA for the greater good.

AnClar · Feb 02, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

The reasons why people left were because they understood that no monk means no win. Anyone knows that monks are essential to gaming in GW. PvE and PvP both REQUIRE some form of healing to succeed in their objective and anyone caught trying to stray away from this fact will be regarded as either ignorant or lacking common sense by anybody that does have common sense.

Not true in RA. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to RA, but as I said before, I don't expect ANet to do anything about this. Also "balanced" by definition does not = random. End synching, make it so there'd be 4 different professions on a team, but then they'd need to call it "PvP Practice Arena" or some such because it won't be truly random anymore. Someone else already mentioned that no monk also does not = no win in RA as it currently exists. Two days ago, I was on a team with myself as BA/Int Ranger, 2 melee, and one Me. Not a Mo in sight. We all had self-heals, knew how to use the terrain, stuck together, went with called targets, used Res Sigs wisely and quickly, and ran off a ten win streak. In the process we beat FOUR teams with healing Mo's. Three of the wins in the streak were flawless. So Mo healers are absolutely not necessary to have winning streaks in RA, just good sensible teams, which I must admit does not happen often enough.

Chthon · Feb 02, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

I'm not a huge player of either, but I find that RA and AB are both vastly improved by the report system. Prior to the report system, both game modes were hopelessly overrun with leechers and "what-no-monk-?-I-quit-!" ragequitters. The report system makes them much more enjoyable.

Now, if I do have an objection to the reporting system, it's the obvious lack of review for offensive names. (See the "ban-a-mate" thread. [Edit: Scratch that. Turns out the ban-a-mate folks may not have been quite so truthful...]) I don't much care if a-net has reporting for offensive names or not, but if they're going to have it, then they need to have real human review for gosh's sake.

HawkofStorms · Feb 02, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I've played RA with dial-up before.

Even then, never got dishonor. Not once.

And people are not that callious/organized to report somebody because they are a W/Mo using mending.