Curse

reaper with no name · May 25, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Mysticism sucks as a primary attribute. Critical Strikes gives better energy management, more health, AND a real combat benefit at the same time.

Worse yet, the idea behind mysticism is terrible. It seems clear that Anet intended that a big part of the dervish's playstyle would be to rip off their own enchantments to fuel powerful skills. Unfortunately, those skills suck, so there's not much reason to do so. Furthermore, due to the low armor and attack power of the dervish (since, again, their primary attribute doesn't help them use their stuff any better), a dervish NEEDS their enchantments to function properly. An unenchanted dervish is a crappy dervish. Yet mysticism encourages them to strip away their very livelihood for a tiny bit of energy. Really, the only reason dervishes even use mysticism is because of the skills linked to it (HoF, the avatars). But since it doesn't make the dervish better at using his other abilities, other professions can use his stuff better than he can (sin, warrior).

So, I propose that mysticism be changed to do the following: For each rank of mysticism, enchantments on you last 3% longer.

At 12 mysticism, this would mean a very respectable 36% increase in the length of all enchantments on the dervish. So, a 10 second enchantment would now last 13-14 sec, and a 30 sec enchantment would now last around 40 sec.

Overnight, the dervish would become the best at using his own stuff, because no one else would be able to keep skills like AoHM up for as long as the dervish could. It would make also dervishes better tanks (a role they are clearly meant to fill, yet don't do so nearly as well as they should), because protection spells like Protective Spirit and Guardian would last longer on them. Finally, It would also double as a form of energy management, because the dervish would not have to recast his enchantments as often.

Hanging Man · May 25, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Not a bad idea
but the length of increased enchantments would be too much.
this would also kill perma sins.
but they need it anyways

Daisuko · May 25, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Mysticism sucks as a primary attribute. Critical Strikes gives better energy management, more health, AND a real combat benefit at the same time.

Worse yet, the idea behind mysticism is terrible. It seems clear that Anet intended that a big part of the dervish's playstyle would be to rip off their own enchantments to fuel powerful skills. Unfortunately, those skills suck, so there's not much reason to do so. Furthermore, due to the low armor and attack power of the dervish (since, again, their primary attribute doesn't help them use their stuff any better), a dervish NEEDS their enchantments to function properly. An unenchanted dervish is a crappy dervish. Yet mysticism encourages them to strip away their very livelihood for a tiny bit of energy. Really, the only reason dervishes even use mysticism is because of the skills linked to it (HoF, the avatars). But since it doesn't make the dervish better at using his other abilities, other professions can use his stuff better than he can (sin, warrior).

So, I propose that mysticism be changed to do the following: For each rank of mysticism, enchantments on you last 3% longer.

At 12 mysticism, this would mean a very respectable 36% increase in the length of all enchantments on the dervish. So, a 10 second enchantment would now last 13-14 sec, and a 30 sec enchantment would now last around 40 sec.

Overnight, the dervish would become the best at using his own stuff, because no one else would be able to keep skills like AoHM up for as long as the dervish could. It would make also dervishes better tanks (a role they are clearly meant to fill, yet don't do so nearly as well as they should), because protection spells like Protective Spirit and Guardian would last longer on them. Finally, It would also double as a form of energy management, because the dervish would not have to recast his enchantments as often.

...with a 20% enchanting mod AoHM is only down for a second. also, this is good, because it triggers the second 50 AoE damage for it ending.

wesman · May 25, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

good idea but i think 3% is to much... maybe 1% for each rank would be better... I would like to see myst changed/buffed though.

lewis91 · May 25, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Not a bad idea, but this doesn't help too much with energy management.

reaper with no name · May 25, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisuko

...with a 20% enchanting mod AoHM is only down for a second. also, this is good, because it triggers the second 50 AoE damage for it ending.

also costs more energy. And lets not forget HoF and all the other enchantments dervs might have up.

pinguinius · May 25, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I don't believe enchantments can last more than 50% longer. So, with a 20% enchanting mod under your system mysticism past level 10 would be completely useless. Also, when certain enchants end (AoHM, HoF, Zealous Renewal, etc), you gain benefits or do damage. Mysticism is fine the way it is IMO.

sportacus · May 26, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Patient Spirit FTL?

Expherious · May 26, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Dervish is my main ATM and I'd love to see a buff to Mysticism I cant help but feel underpowered when I play them knowing another class is more effective with it as /D
I've been trying to find a way to buff mysticism myself,\.

Undead King Knight · May 26, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Ok if they got this buff they could maintain shadow form with deadly paradox and essence. Arenet made the skill so you could maintain it on any profession other than a sin. Also if you had the 10% offhand from the collector (now unavailable) it would be overpowered.

Puebert · May 26, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportacus

Patient Spirit FTL?

Because everything should be balanced around Patient Spirit.

Lux Aeterna · May 26, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Dervish is a pretty weak class, it would probably take more than this to make them usable.

Every time I want to make a dervish I realize that my war just does it better.

Giving dervishes adrenaline skills or an actual usable IAS, and don't try to tell me heart of fury is usable, would be a good start to making them workable.

Snow Bunny · May 26, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

You have a ridiculous energy-management engine designed to work with enchantments, and it does so very well, especially with a monk backline.

It should be nerfed, if anything, but there's no point.

/notsigned.

s t e e · May 26, 2009, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Mysticism is fine as it is end of story...

kazjun · May 26, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Maybe, though there are far more primary attribs that are worse of...

MithranArkanere · May 26, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

The only change I would do for Mysticism is to work with another type of skill, like shouts or stances, since warriors, paragons and rangers have no enchantments, and I strongly think that every single primary attribute should work with some of the skills of every profession.

reaper with no name · May 26, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You have a ridiculous energy-management engine designed to work with enchantments, and it does so very well, especially with a monk backline.

It should be nerfed, if anything, but there's no point.

/notsigned.

I respectfully disagree. Critical Strikes gives even better energy management than mysticism, while giving a real combat benefit that mysticism does not. The only way mysticism could possibly not be underpowered is if Critical Strikes is overpowered (which it may well be, but even then you have to face the fact that warriors can use a dervish's skills better than dervish despite their crappy energy regen). No matter how you slice it, dervishes are not going to be the best at using their own stuff unless their primary attribute gets a buff. That's the definition of an underpowered primary attribute.

Snow Bunny · May 26, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I respectfully disagree. Critical Strikes gives even better energy management than mysticism, while giving a real combat benefit that mysticism does not. The only way mysticism could possibly not be underpowered is if Critical Strikes is overpowered (which it may well be, but even then you have to face the fact that warriors can use a dervish's skills better than dervish despite their crappy energy regen). No matter how you slice it, dervishes are not going to be the best at using their own stuff unless their primary attribute gets a buff. That's the definition of an underpowered primary attribute.

You're not-so respectfully wrong.

There's a reason bars like the D/N orders support character exist. There's a reason that the D/E Wounding Strike could spam all day.

A dervish has massive damage from a scythe, and a primary attribute with innate energy management. Every aegis that ends on them, every patient spirit, every rof, every bloody enchantment gives them energy.

There's a reason that a Dervish can become a support character while all an assassin can be is a one-stop gimmick.

Stop this terrible mindset. The pve community is full of morons and it's showing. Stop buffing shit - you all complain that the game is too easy and that there's nothing to do...well if Anet didn't keep buffing shit because you children didn't know what you want then things wouldn't be like this.

Warriors can no-longer use Dervish skills well, at least not in PvP. They are the best at using their forms, and it being enchantment powered-support engines.

Warriors have a pretty shit attribute, but it's balanced because they are such a powerful class. Dervishes have great damage, great skills, and a decent primary attribute.

You're wrong. So go back to playing with a class that should have never been introduced.

Symbiont · May 26, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You're not-so respectfully wrong.

There's a reason bars like the D/N orders support character exist. There's a reason that the D/E Wounding Strike could spam all day.

A dervish has massive damage from a scythe, and a primary attribute with innate energy management. Every aegis that ends on them, every patient spirit, every rof, every bloody enchantment gives them energy.

There's a reason that a Dervish can become a support character while all an assassin can be is a one-stop gimmick.

Stop this terrible mindset. The pve community is full of morons and it's showing. Stop buffing shit - you all complain that the game is too easy and that there's nothing to do...well if Anet didn't keep buffing shit because you children didn't know what you want then things wouldn't be like this.

Warriors can no-longer use Dervish skills well, at least not in PvP. They are the best at using their forms, and it being enchantment powered-support engines.

Warriors have a pretty shit attribute, but it's balanced because they are such a powerful class. Dervishes have great damage, great skills, and a decent primary attribute.

You're wrong. So go back to playing with a class that should have never been introduced.

Wow, glad to see I stumbled upon someone normal for a change.

But seriously that is a point, too much complaining and analyzing and not enough enjoying. I have a Dervish and I'm enjoying playing it very much, I don't have any complaints about it, at least not anymore, I used to think they should have a bit more energy but that would make Mysticism kind of useless, so it's fine as it is. If you think Dervishes can't cut it PvE wise then you're doing it wrong.

zwei2stein · May 26, 2009, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephantaliste

o_0...............................

Stop it Bunny, you are scaring children!

OP: It is true that anets original vision of "fuel powerful skills with enchants" failed. But for different reasons than mysticism sucking:

No cas'n'strip enchant is really any good, having at best mediocre effect for its cost (especially casting time & aftercast time cost, but since they usually cost 10 energy, mysticism will not return much of that), range (BPAOE) and recharge. Not to mention skill slot. Skill fueled by this would better have to be pretty awesome.

If they actually get useful effect, they create too good spike combo with likes of Pious Assault and would have to end up being nerfed anyway.