Curse

AmbientMelody · Jun 16, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Like in thread title. I propose that when you enter a dungeon or mission spanning on terrain avaible only during the mission (not during normal explorable) the map you enter is one of the possible variants.

Example dungeon - Frostmaw's Burrows

It has 5 levels. Now, once you get from outpost or another area to Jaga Moraine, all 5 levels of the dungeon are randomized. By randomized, I mean there are few version of the same level of the dungeon, even with variable sub-quests, monsters, bosses, shape and form of the entire dungeon. All variations should be optimized of course to make them similar hard to beat but still each of them should more or less surprise you. Now, the thing I used to call 'randomized randomization'. What is it? It means that if there are for example 10 different maps for a switch for let's say FB's dungeon lv 2, when you load one of the randomized maps, it doesn't mean that quests, bosses and other stuff will follow the same pattern assigned to this map. It means, quests, bosses, monsters, maps are all randomized independently, what means that even if you land on the map you have previously explored, you never know what lurks in the near corner, what bosses will spawn, what pop ups of mobs and where ... what quests to do, etc

With so high level of randomization it wouldn't even make sense to create some kind of system that changes the set if you zone in and out between two areas in case you didn't like what you got in random pattern, although it could be implemented nevertheless.

Is this fun? Yes, it's less repetitive. Every time, no matter alone or with other people you will face another challenge, something different. You will explore entire dungeon since beginning.

In missions it could work similar, let's say that you enter Hell's precipice but each time the map is different, bosses are rotated/switched in place, there are different mobs in different places and even the final chamber is situated elsewhere.

Think of the suggestions both in terms of original Guild Wars development and future Guild Wars 2 suggestions. Oh, and don't focus too much on technical things like whether there should be 2,3,4, or 10 different maps etc. If Anet development team ever thinks of this, they will know how to make it cost-effective. Personally I think that some of the new features of gw2 are being tested upon or partially implemented in original GW, so who knows.

Songbringer · Jun 16, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Sounds cool. However, I hated capping in prophecies because I would have to enter the same mission 25 times to get the right boss. Idk if i would sign or unsign. It would be cool for dungeons not your average game play. This would kill running dungeons though. You also wouldn't be able to make any team build against certain things for the dungeon if crap constantly changed.

zwei2stein · Jun 16, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I see you reclaimed sanity and started to submit actually good ideas.

Yes, GW PvE really could use randomization.

AmbientMelody · Jun 16, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Eye

I think that would take way to much time for anet to give a shit about.

If you read one of the interviews on the Anet site you will notice a part where they state that it took them considerable amount of time to create world edit tools for the game developers, so they can make the changes on their own, see if they work or not and then consult another ideas with technicians. This means that the current GW/GW2 technician crew could add some 'randomization' code to the game tools or game developers could create these levels on their own. If you look how big every campaign is, you can put a random guess it doesn't take longer than a year to create full-blown campaign with voice-overs and other stuff as it was possible before (well, you could read there were two dev teams working on original gw campaigns, each working for one year in half-year development/release shifts ... the case with FA and NF).

Kattar · Jun 16, 2009, 03:04 PM // 15:04

As a reminder:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardelac Guidelines

10. "It'll Never Happen!"

Due to the current situation in Guild Wars itself, several people have been seen posting replies to threads stating that users might as well not make suggestions for Guild Wars: 1 because ArenaNet will likely not take any notice, or implement anything else. Sardelac Moderators would like to remind you that this is a place for discussion, and to share ideas, regardless of how likely they are to be implemented in GW:1.

Link to the rules
Follow the guidelines or do not post.

Abedeus · Jun 16, 2009, 03:05 PM // 15:05

As much as it sounds well, it's basically impossible. They don't give monthly updates on time, so chances of something like this are... well, NOT possible. Not even 1 in a million.

I mean, this would be much harder to write than Auction House.

MithranArkanere · Jun 16, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Some randomization in some instances is not bad. But missions should stay fixed.

But randomization can't be added to GW right now. Because each area is standalone and whole, not 'composed' by pieces.

Anyways, the best candidates for randomization are areas without a 'visible' map, underground areas.

MagmaRed · Jun 16, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Random would also entail difficulty changes. If you have random monsters spawn, but in set numbers, I'd be mad if I was using a caster based team and faced opponents with Daze, interrupts, and elemental resistances. Then again, I'd be mad if I was a physical based team facing blind, weakness, and other melee hate.

Random has some benefit, but I really don't want a quest/mission/dungeon to be a cake walk one time because I had 'luck' on the random choice, and the next time be unable to get anywhere. Not that I really think it is possible, but even if it was, I don't like the idea of it. Monster spawns would be the ONLY random thing I would like to see, map changes would not be good.

AmbientMelody · Jun 16, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Random would also entail difficulty changes. If you have random monsters spawn, but in set numbers, I'd be mad if I was using a caster based team and faced opponents with Daze, interrupts, and elemental resistances. Then again, I'd be mad if I was a physical based team facing blind, weakness, and other melee hate.

Random has some benefit, but I really don't want a quest/mission/dungeon to be a cake walk one time because I had 'luck' on the random choice, and the next time be unable to get anywhere. Not that I really think it is possible, but even if it was, I don't like the idea of it. Monster spawns would be the ONLY random thing I would like to see, map changes would not be good.

By random mobs and bosses, I meant that current spawns are changed, so groups of monsters and bosses appear elsewhere. Randomization could as well apply to how many mobs are in group (between 3-8 let's say for standard groups). As for the monster abilities etc I don't mean that suddenly you will face Ranger and Mesmer mobs everywhere ;d Current dungeons are big enough to make interesting environment. Imagine now that even mob patrols can be different each time, so you need to stay on your toes and watch closely what's happening around. It's basically about less predictability in the dungeon, less routine experience each time you enter the dungeon in.

I don't really think it would be wise to randomize mobs composition too much, but it should be in place. Remember, dungeons have many levels and you are more than likely to face different challenge on each level that way, favouring balanced and well thought builds over gimmicks based around exploiting every weakness of predictable foe. Though, random sets of monsters would be good. Let's say in dungeon A on level 1 there are 2 boss spawns ... now, there are 10 bosses to be chosen, each of different profession, so you never know will you get that troublemaking Dervish boss or annoying Monk boss healing itself all the time or perhaps Warrior boss easy to shut down with melee hexes and be done with that.

Summarising, randomization will favour both good strategy before entering the dungeon and tactical choices being made inside it instead of pre-learning one-and-only build and following the same pattern till the end.

Hailey Anne · Jun 16, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

/notsigned myself.
Just wouldnt want it period.
I like to be able to take a build into a mission/dungeon knowing I can counter what the mobs deal out.

would however sign it if it was optional. Like a challenge mode or something.

Bob Slydell · Jun 16, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

/notsigned

This really wouldn't be a good idea, and I don't think it's even possible in guildwars. In guildwars (my guessing) every map is custom designed and cannot be randomy created, so it would take precious dev time to create a few random maps. Kinda reminds me of diablo 2, how maps always changed, but in GW that would be a wreck and there would be so much QQing

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 16, 2009, 08:03 PM // 20:03

This is a great idea. From what I understand, you keep the same monsters in each dungeon, but don't always put them at the exact same place. Vary the layout a bit, so that you can't just run through it automatically.

My guess is players who like some challenge, and don't want to do the same stuff over and over would love this. Players who want to farm as easy as possible, just to get stuff would not.

Personally, I think this would add to the longevity of the game. It would mean being able to play the dungeon more times, and still have to remain vigilant.

It won't happen in GW, but I'd love to see it in GW2

/signed

Brawn Over Brains · Jun 16, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Fine, here's some elaboration. >_>
I wouldn't enjoy this, because I don't like not knowing what I'm going to face, and I don't like PvE all that much.

headlesshobbs · Jun 16, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I know if these changes happened at Umbral Grotto, cryers would be having the biggest QQ fest of the century.

/signed cause I'm all for it!

Pistachio · Jun 16, 2009, 10:11 PM // 22:11

This would be okay in moderation.
I would rather keep the current dungeons static, but I wouldn't mind the addition of new dungeons that were randomized.

rick1027 · Jun 16, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

im gonna say unsigned for gw but because it would take too much resources to implement but signed for gw2 it sure would reduce any running

pumpkin pie · Jun 17, 2009, 02:33 AM // 02:33

/signed

cos i want it too. infact i want to randomized everything, everytime you walk out of a town, you are face with random challenges.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 17, 2009, 05:55 AM // 05:55

It's an interesting idea, but I wouldn't want it in GW1. GW1 isn't designed this way, and would probably take a fair amount of resources and time, much more than Anet would put toward it at this stage. Would be a good addition for certain areas in GW2.

Aljasha · Jun 17, 2009, 10:23 AM // 10:23

/signed, but only few missions should be randomized and have a story-driven background that explains the randomisation. e.g. an insane wizard controls platforms and you have to jump/fly/whatever from one to another.

disarm76 · Jun 17, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

/not signed. I like to know what I'll be facing beforehand.