Curse

jcapulet · Nov 15, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

1. During an SF farm or the Tombs farm, you use a full group to get to the bosses- once you get to them, a full team is not needed for the kill. The leader kicks you- more green weapons for them.

What if the chances of getting drops stays the same even if you kick someone? It would be the same as previously, but minus the offending player. It may stink for the loot/drop chances to remain the same, but I'd prefer that to keeping someone who is AFK/bad-mouthing/leeching. Also, it would discourage players from ABUSING the option (kicking others to get better loot/drops/greens).

Quote:

I would, however, like to see this kick system under these rules:

1. Anyone who has been afk for over five minutes can be kicked.

2. Anyone who is far off from the rest of the team (say off the compass of everone else) can be kicked.

This will allow to remove the players that need to be removed, without leaving room for abuse.

I strongly agree wtih 1. There's just no reason those players should not be kicked. As for 2, I think #1 would probably take care of that.

It should also be a vote-based system. Majority decides, not the leader.

Anyway, there's my 2 cents on the matter.

lioka pelenoria · Nov 15, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Honestly i believe that the implementation of such an option would cut down the number of griefers and assholes in the GW player base. With any system there is the possibiltiy of abuse, and all the arguments i read about this can be categorized...

1. Jerk Leader
2. Jerk Guild
3. Drop abuse
4. Support of elitism

The benefits of such a system as said before will VASTLY OVERSHADOW the problems above, simply because these problems can be eliminated with simple rules. Many of these are the same rules regurgitated.

1. Any player may initiate a vote to kick another player. (counters jerk leader)
2. A vote may not be cancelled.
3. 80% majority vote of remaining party members required to kick. Comes to these party sizes and vote requirements: 2: system cannot be applied. 4: Other 2 party members must vote unanimously. 6: 3 of 4 other party members must vote in favor. 8: 5 of 6 other party members must vote in favor.
4. Regardless of whether the vote succeeds or not, another vote cannot be placed for 10 minutes.
5. Kicked player is returned to previous outpost, and has the chance to reclaim reserved items via the "Claim items" window, like after a mission.
6. Drop rate and gold distribution are unchanged. Drops that would have been for the kicked player simply dont happen, as if the player was a hench.
7. Kicked player will NOT be replaced by a hench.
8. (counter jerk guild, see below)

**In cases where the majority of a party is a guild, that guild's Karma rating is displayed in the party window before you join. The name of the party leader is replaced by the guild name and karma rating.

Guilds loose Karma when they unanimously vote to kick a non-guild member from a party, or when the majority of the vote is from the same guild. Guilds karma rating only increases if the guild has not kicked a non-guild party member from a party in the afore mentioned manner for 1 month time.

You can check the guild's karma rating before you join the party at an outpost. Furthermore, when the party changes such that majority is in control of a single guild, the party members window displays the guild's karma. When the party is in control of a guild, members may leave while the mission countdown is going. Countdown stops if a player leaves.**

9. A vote cannot be placed when there is a primary mission or quest goal within radar range. (you cant kick some random person when youre about to finish the mission or quest)
9b. However, a vote can be placed anytime when the majority of the party is dead, and while majority of the party is dead the time delay does not apply. 80% majority. (kick an afker so you can rez or restart the mission)

10. A player kicked from Underworld or Fissure of Woe is given 125 gold. (You really have to think about this one to see that it cant be abused. if one player pays everyone's entrance fee, then he will loose the 125 gold if a player is kicked, but if everyone paid, then theres no problem.)

11. A player cannot be kicked out of a competative mission (pvp).
11b. A player may be kicked out of a factions competative mission (leech killer).

/signed when all the rules are addressed.

Tempy · Dec 30, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I would love this feature, but only if anyone could initiate the kick. If it was only up to the leader to kick then you would have people only wanting to be leader.

Would be nice to have that player replaced with a henchie, but we all know that even down one player most missions/areas can be done.

I also like the first loot solution too, that way people wouldn't be being kicked because they got the ecto drop or whatever it is this week.

Servant of Kali · Dec 31, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Im always for a good oldfashioned KICK. Im tired of liberal teenager kids with "rights".

Not A Fifty Five · Dec 31, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

eh I'd be against it cause pretty much any time you'd have to kick someone, you'd have to go back to town. In hard missions 7 people is very crippling, 6 totally destructive. I say take the leader position and be a good leader, deal with the little twerps

If problems start arising early on, go back to town.

Caleb · Dec 31, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

/not signed for the 200th time.

Unnecessary and far too open to abuse.

FireFox · Dec 31, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

***support***

Frazzy · Dec 31, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

If you don't get along with humans, use henchmen or heroes. This problem can be easily solved and it wouldn't change the game play one bit.
/notsigned

Also, what if your party agrees to kick somebody if a good item dropped before they had time to pick it up and then they would split the gold?
What if somebody went away from his/her keyboard to answer the telephone and the group decided to kick him?
What if somebody was angry at another party member so he decided to kick a much needed party member who was innocent?

(= I could come up with at least 50 more questions that you couldn't solve with a better answer than "Make it a majority rules."

Biostem · Nov 01, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

The solution to drops for a person would be to have that item go w/ that person, when kicked, in the form of a "claim items dialog".

The solution to spamming kick requests would be to put it on a timer.

If you are going AFK and NOT telling anyone, then you deserve to be kicked. A simple "afk door" is all that's needed.

A kick function would require *at least* a majority vote. This stops someone from being kicked on a whim, or by accident.

The only other suggestion I would like to add would be a kick-penalty - if you keep suggesting to kick people, and are voted down, then your ability to suggest a teammate get kicked should be temporarily revoked.

Mineria · Nov 01, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lioka pelenoria

Honestly i believe that the implementation of such an option would cut down the number of griefers and assholes in the GW player base. With any system there is the possibiltiy of abuse, and all the arguments i read about this can be categorized...

1. Jerk Leader
2. Jerk Guild
3. Drop abuse
4. Support of elitism

The benefits of such a system as said before will VASTLY OVERSHADOW the problems above, simply because these problems can be eliminated with simple rules. Many of these are the same rules regurgitated.

1. Any player may initiate a vote to kick another player. (counters jerk leader)
2. A vote may not be cancelled.
3. 80% majority vote of remaining party members required to kick. Comes to these party sizes and vote requirements: 2: system cannot be applied. 4: Other 2 party members must vote unanimously. 6: 3 of 4 other party members must vote in favor. 8: 5 of 6 other party members must vote in favor.
4. Regardless of whether the vote succeeds or not, another vote cannot be placed for 10 minutes.
5. Kicked player is returned to previous outpost, and has the chance to reclaim reserved items via the "Claim items" window, like after a mission.
6. Drop rate and gold distribution are unchanged. Drops that would have been for the kicked player simply dont happen, as if the player was a hench.
7. Kicked player will NOT be replaced by a hench.
8. (counter jerk guild, see below)

**In cases where the majority of a party is a guild, that guild's Karma rating is displayed in the party window before you join. The name of the party leader is replaced by the guild name and karma rating.

Guilds loose Karma when they unanimously vote to kick a non-guild member from a party, or when the majority of the vote is from the same guild. Guilds karma rating only increases if the guild has not kicked a non-guild party member from a party in the afore mentioned manner for 1 month time.

You can check the guild's karma rating before you join the party at an outpost. Furthermore, when the party changes such that majority is in control of a single guild, the party members window displays the guild's karma. When the party is in control of a guild, members may leave while the mission countdown is going. Countdown stops if a player leaves.**

9. A vote cannot be placed when there is a primary mission or quest goal within radar range. (you cant kick some random person when youre about to finish the mission or quest)
9b. However, a vote can be placed anytime when the majority of the party is dead, and while majority of the party is dead the time delay does not apply. 80% majority. (kick an afker so you can rez or restart the mission)

10. A player kicked from Underworld or Fissure of Woe is given 125 gold. (You really have to think about this one to see that it cant be abused. if one player pays everyone's entrance fee, then he will loose the 125 gold if a player is kicked, but if everyone paid, then theres no problem.)

11. A player cannot be kicked out of a competative mission (pvp).
11b. A player may be kicked out of a factions competative mission (leech killer).

/signed when all the rules are addressed.

This sounds good.
There is not even a "what if questions" to the solution above, but..

10 wont be needed.
Since there can be made a modification to the pay method of entering UW/FoW.

Every player entering FoW/UW will automatically get charged for (1000g/amount of players in the party) upon entering.
The code for this is already in the game. I think the Norn's name is something like Longfinger.

I really hate it when someone goes afk in the middle of a mission and never comes back.
Last time it happened for a party I was in, it was someone saying "I need to go and sleep now, bye"

/signed

To those posting against this...
WoW has a kick system very much like this but there is no vote option, and it is not being wildly abused.
Yes newbies are kicked, but only because they got the same thing told 10 times in a row from the party leader, and still don't want to listen.
Of course there are bad leaders as well, but they get well known.
About the loot concerns, do that more then once and the whole realm knows your name. It starts with yelling in the main towns all the way to posts on the forums. Pretty effective way to keep things straight if you ask me.
Just ask the WoW players about their kick system.
You will find very few that would say it's bad. Those who will are those that you would kick yourself.

Str0b0 · Nov 01, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

I can see this being ripe for abuse. Who cares if it worked in WoW. WoW is not GW and vice versa. Already the report system is being abused in subtle and not so subtle ways. Anyway the game already has a system in place to help deal with these sort of jerks in mission. All you do is lead a mob right back into them and let them die and then don't res. Tada problem solved. I've done it before when I've been helping people with a mission and someone starts bad mouthing other members or is just abusive I'll get the rest of the party to run close, go aggro a group and then break at the offending player, constantly kiting to keep them between us and the mob until they die, then no res.

Even with the rules people have suggested it would be abused badly and even if you kick them you solve nothing. You are still a man short and might as well resign and try again if it is a key party member. In competitive missions you can always report,of course like I said that feature is being abused all to hell too. I've actually had people offer me items and gold in game to file a false report so that their guild could win a GvG match. The idea was to get the key players banned and force the other team to sub in. It sounds overly convoluted and more than a little lame but I don't doubt that false reports happen for unsportsmanlike reasons and via manipulation of the checks and balances set in place to prevent the abuse of the system. what makes you think a kick system will be any different?

Here is a better idea why not just make this a solo game outright. I mean if you institute this system people will too scared or annoyed to play with one another. I can see it now. Isolated cases of abuse pop up. The forums start firing up. The rumor mill begins to grind and soon other threads reporting abuse pop up, whether valid or not. the stage is set. People start reading the horror stories of jerk off leaders going ape shit mid mission, or of farming groups being kicked at the last minute in order for someone to get their drops when the items unassign. As for your idea of a self policing system like you mentioned in WoW where the community basically tattles on bad leaders and abusers. Have you been in a town or outpost lately? I can't count the number of times that someone has shouted SO AND SO IS A SCAMMER! I've heard it so many times and most of the time it's BS. The person in question may be a price gouger or an unrealistic newbie to the trading game but they aren't a scammer. As for forums, have you read the rules here? No names. No names in screen shots no in game names in posts. Personally I like it that way.

I know that you covered many of the points mentioned above, but you have got to realize that people will find a way around any checks and balances you make in a system. People will always abuse a system that you give them for self policing. Why do you think that we have people whose job it is to police the community in real life? It is because if it were simply up to common rule and common justice people would abuse it. It's human nature. The reports are being abused now despite the checks and balances put in place to stop that and even if it came down to a majority vote by the party on the spot all it would take is a little social engineering or alliance members in cahoots and bam instant abuse. You would also still end up with a man down and no better off than if you had just resigned and gone back to town in the first place.

Bottom line it's a bad idea. /not signed

Sergeant of Marines · Nov 01, 2007, 07:03 AM // 07:03

/signed

Wanted to do this a couple of times with inmature aholes!

pumpkin pie · Nov 01, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

As much as I like to kick some players from some group. ie leecher, kamikazi wannabe, afkers, you name it there they are.

However there is no way, the system can be done that would be 100% FAIR, so to save ourself from this unnecessary drama, i think we will stick to the frustration we get from leechers and afkers for the time being.

happy days.

Tari of Ascalon · Apr 09, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I believe this system would work and be much appreciated by those of us who are tired and fed up with those people who make GW a misery day in day out. Overall I enjoy playing GW, but it's these sort of people that annoy me most when I work my hardest towards a title.

As a GW veteran, I find it increasingly tiresome, when I end up in teams where the majority of us are working our hardest for a title, and yet some people believe it's ok to leach off of us n get the rewards for doing nothing. In my experience I encounter this sort of gaming in PvP the most. The current /report system in my opinion is not enough of a deterrant or punishment enough for the 'continuous leechers'.

I would also ask for some sort of 'Hall of Shame' on Guru for anyone caught leeching in PvP (so long as they are leeching and have not either:

a) lost connection from networking issues
b) said they will be afk for either phone, toilet break or something similar and will be back asap.

How the Hall of Shame would work:

First, you enter whatever PvP arena or mission.

Then:
1) take a screenshot showing your party menu, and chat interface.
2) go ahead with your mission etc
3) if you die, and you res at the shrine, take note of anyone standing around. If you spot anyone that appears to be leeching, take another screenshot and continue with the mission. Take note of the chat interface for any 'lost connection' messages or 'afk brb' and make a note of these too.
4) whenever you die or are in range of the person you believe is leeching, take another screenshot with 'said' person in the shot, and make use of the /report system and report that person for leeching. (so long as points a) and b) were not seen)

After your mission, take your first screenshot and latest, and add them to the Hall of Shame.

The Hall of Shame will be continuously updated with any found leechers. Any person found on the Hall of Shame more than 3 times, will have their title track reset for the missions they were leeching from.

So, for example, if someone is put on the Hall of Shame more than 3 times, from the same mission, i.e Jade Quarry [luxon], their Luxon title track will be reset to zero.

The way I see things, anyone who thinks they can get others to work for them and reap the rewards for doing nothing is promoting slavery. The punishment should be severe! This is a fitting punishment and I believe a just one.

''If you want a title, work for it.''

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 09, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

this would weaken the group as a whole, so the only reason a person would be kicked would hopefully be for a good reason. but this could be troublesome in dungeons, having people being kicked before the end chest. even though this could be useful in certain situations, it will be more often abused than used properly. so nah.

hawaiian143 · Apr 13, 2009, 10:10 AM // 10:10

i totally support this kicking feature, as from time to time i get lazy and dont want to do any fighting but still want to socialize so i go on a run of some sort and then when u get to the pay spot 1 idiot refuses to pay and screws everyone over cuz he wont pay, if i could vote him out i would.

1337 H4X · Apr 15, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Too easily will be abused, I for one would be pissed if I got kicked for no good reason
/notsigned

The Little Viking · Apr 16, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I truly do like this idea. So many times groups have had a failure due to just 1 person, or its taken A LOT longer to get thru a dungeon because someone needs to pee, go before leaving the outpost. Frostmaw is understandable..its 5 lvls., Ooze pit is not...its 1 lvl.
For the runners out there reading this (yes i am one) It would make life so much easier. Cant get paid? kick them. They wont stay back and keep screwing things up (CoF is a wonderful example of this happening ALL THE TIME) kick them. But, I can also see a problem with this as well. Someone not formiluar with an area accidentally screws up, and gets kicked because of the mistake-not right. BUT if its happened before..well yea, get rid of them. BUT there in lies the problem...People dont have the patience to see if its going to happen again and will get rid of said player at the first mistake. A lot of people have the sence enough to stay back if unformiluar with an area, but theres always the 1 that likes to just charge right in and die.
Also, anyone in the group should have the option to initiate the kick mode, not just the leader. What if its the leader thats the jerk? Also, when it comes to drops, the kicked person should get the drop window when they get back to the outpost.

Ironballs · Apr 17, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

"Okay guys, we're going to go fight the boss now"
*leader decides to be a douche and propose to kick every member in turn so that a new window opens several times in each party member's UI and the party wipes from having windows in their way*

That's just what I think would happen. People like to grief, and people will grief with whatever means possible. Nice idea, but I don't think it really works for guild wars.

Raccoon · Apr 17, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

What if it's the leader whos leeching?