Curse

draxynnic · Jun 05, 2009, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

Im still looking through this, and i still dont see anything good...

Look, if its not broke... DONT FIX IT!

and Lol at the Spawning causeing Armor-penetration... 3 words: Rit Cant Tank.
Squishies on the frontline is not prefered....

/notsigned (again)

Try actually reading the thread instead of just looking at it.

For instance, Spawning causing armour-penetration isn't my favoured solution either, but no-one suggested it should be used for tanking - instead, the suggestion was for Ritualist spells to have armour penetration.

And I think that, when members of the profession don't use a primary attribute because it's not worthwhile, and that profession's role gets taken over by taking that profession as a secondary of a primary that does have a useful primary attribute, that's a good indication that it is broken. The only other profession I can think of that regularly abandoned its primary was Warriors back in the days when Tactics was good...

Balcu · Jun 06, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Preface: A change of this drastic type is most likely beyond the willingness of Anet staff to give such an overhaul to Rits, and is really just wishful thinking on my part.

OK what makes Ritualists unique?... summoning creatures, creating weapons, holding items, etc.

Idea: What if they were turned into real summoners. Here is my idea to turn the Rit into the summoner, this obviously would take a lot to flesh out and balance but could breathe life into this class by giving them something that no other class can do.

Spirits:
Why do they suck, because their effects are weak, and they don't move, and other reasons. So change them. Ritualist Spirits are now GHOSTS. Ghost is a new term. A Ghost is a spirit of the Ritualist profession. Ghosts can move, they follow their master and if their master dies they become hostile. There are already some really nice Ghosts in GW, so you don't have to build new models. I've put together a few of the ghost models that are in the game already on one page, so you can picture what it would be like to have a small army of these guys marching with you.

Spawning Power:
This needs to be good for ritualists, make people want to actually be a rit and not a x/Rt.

So here's my Spawning Power Idea:

Weapon Spells last 2% longer for each rank in SP
Only ONE Ghost may be summoned at a time, plus ONE for each five levels of Spawning Power. i.e: 1Ghost @ 0 SP, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Ghosts cannot be duplicated.
All Ritualist Ghosts are 1 level higher for each 2 levels of SP (PvE Only, Has no effect in PvP)--This is so Ghosts can be given low levels even at higher ranks of Resto/Chan/Com so they will only be good on Rits.-- i.e.: The Pain ghost at at a high Communing would still be poor on a Nec; but would gain 5 levels on a Rt @ 10 SP. (adjust as needed for balancing)

The Actual Ghosts (Summon Spells):

Note: The following are just some quick ideas thrown together and would have to of course be looked at for balance, cost, recharge and effect. I am intentionally not listing the full characteristics these spells have as I do not know what they would/should be set to.

Communing
Anguish:Summon a Mesmer Ghost, casts conjure nightmare
Disenchantment: Summon a Mesmer Ghost, casts Discharge Enchantment
Displacement: Summon a Necromancer Ghost, casts Blood Bond
Dissonence: Summon a Paragon Ghost, Uses Barbed Spear and Distracting Strike
Earthbind: Summon a Elementalist Ghost, casts Stoning
Pain: Summon a Warrior Ghost Uses "To the limit" and Bonnetti's Defense
Shadow Song: Summon an Assassin Ghost uses Black Spider Strike and Blinding Powder
Shelter: Summon a Dervish Ghost, Uses Natural Healing, Signet of Pious Restraint
Soothing: Summon a Mesmer Ghost, casts Soothing Images
Union: Summon a Monk Ghost, casts Shielding Hands, and Reversal of Damage
Wanderlust: Summon a Centaur Ghost casts trample and Gust

Channeling:
Agony: Summon a Ranger Ghost, Uses Splinter Shot
Bloodsong: Summon a Warrior Ghost, uses Barbarous Slice
Destruction: Summon a Warrior Ghost, uses Hammer Bash

Restoration:
Life: Summon a Monk Ghost, Casts Heavens Delight and Signet of Devotion
Rejuvination: Summon a Monk Ghost, Casts Signet of Rejuvination
Recovery: Summon a Ritualist Ghost casts Mending Grip
Recuperation: Summon a Paragon Ghost, uses Never Give Up!, Never Surrender!
Preservation: Summon a Ritualist Ghost, Casts Mend Body and Soul and Soothing Memories

Spawning Power:
Empowerment: Summon a Necro Ghost, casts blood ritual and Awaken The Blood

Hope you've enjoyed my take on redesigning the Rit, thanks for reading.

Asia Skyly · Jun 06, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Wow Balcu... That is a pretty impressive idea! I really like your approach. I wonder how close this will put the ritualist to the minion masters, but I can see how a few restrictions would make a difference (Recuperation ghost never attacks, etc.).

Pretty impressive!

Lhim · Jun 06, 2009, 07:32 AM // 07:32

The power of spirits is that they affect allies within a certain range. Turning them into ghosts that are basically some form of asura summons is more like a nerf imo (is that even possible now

).

The idea is original tough, so nice effort.

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 06, 2009, 07:33 AM // 07:33

See my suggestion in the Create a Skill thread.

It would change spirits from Practically Useless to Very, Very Powerful (in PvE).

Jarus · Jun 08, 2009, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balcu

Preface: A change of this drastic type...
Hope you've enjoyed my take on redesigning the Rit, thanks for reading.

Wow. I did actually enjoy reading that, and I would actually 100% gladly trade my current spirits for those you've suggested.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you that this sort of change would, at the very least, be beyond Anet's resources. I have the impression that most of the coding staff is actually on GW2 now.

Still, very well done.

Mikkelet · Jun 09, 2009, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Nice idea Balcu!
/signed (although it needs some changes ofc :P)

Rits would also be better if their spirits lasted longer. fx Displacement loses 60 health each time an ally block. that is equal to about 4-5 blocks... and that's with 12 in both communing and SP. sucky.

Cirian · Jun 09, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I like the basic idea of Ghosts a lot

I think SP boosts the health of Asura summons, which are a lot more interesting to have around simply because they move and fight alongside the ritualist.

Having 3-4 summons sounds like a lot of fun for PvE. There might be a way to work that many into PvP too, like if the ritualist had to fuel the ghosts' attacks somehow... otherwise rits would become a very strong force multiplier! Imagine a GvG with 8 rits bringing 24-32 ghosts being able to cast and wand, haha. But that's just a detail that can be ironed out, like not letting ghosts wand in PvP, and when a ghost uses a skill any duplicate ghosts owned by other ritualists within earshot have that skill go through a recycle as if they'd cast the skill themselves (to prevent ghost spike gimmicks etc). Basically, there are ways to prevent mass summoning get over the top in PvP so I like the idea very much. Summoning is cool.

Dace Hunters · Jun 10, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Interesting idea with the ghosts but too close to asura summons for my liking, plus i cant see Anet doing it when they're so busy with GW2, nice ideas though.

I'd quite like to see SP changed to something resembling a mix between rangers Expertise and mesmers Fast Casting, although not very original, i think it would make primary rit much more appealing. Something like:

For each rank of spawning power you have, your binding rituals, item and weapon spells cost 3% less energy and your binding rituals cast 5% faster. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power.

Possibly a bit overpowered but you get the idea, plus i think it still fits in with the idea of spawning things by allowing you to spawn spirits quicker and with less cost

zwei2stein · Jun 10, 2009, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balcu

...

Well, asuran summons are nearly the same thing ... but they are kinda sucky and not worth slot generally because you can take skill they would use yourself. Only ghost-like summon used is assassin one because he has fairly nice bar.

----

Anyhow, if you want PvE imba:

"Spawning power blabla, existing stuff, blah blah, If you use summoning stone, you get extra ally for each 2 ranks of spawning power. Summoning sickness is 10% shorter for each 2 ranks of spawning power."

Rt thus being nearly immune to sickness (12 minutes) and able to summon up to 8 L20 summons each with nice bar.

Not imba, not at all.

MithranArkanere · Jun 10, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Hm... still too limited.

Primary attributes are better when at least other 5 professions have some skills that work for them.

Divine Favor is strong, but limited. Spawning power is limited... but you can't say it's really strong.
Only some of the skills in the line make worthy increasing the rank.

Xion Air · Jun 13, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00

I think the main problem with Spawning power is the fact it doesn't significantly help the rit. My solution would be that any spirit created would follow you (not stick to the ground and have to use stupid skills to teleport them to you). This would make fighting a lot faster, easier, and waste less energy.

Secondly, there should be some skills in Spawning power that also help out other aspects of the rit, like item spells for example.

E.G.

Spirit Vortex

Energy cost: 10
Cast time: 1 second
Recharge time: 45 seconds

Enchantment Spell: For 5...80 seconds, Item Spells recharge 4...64% faster.

This means you could constantly maintain VWK as well as some other great item spells - for example in the restoration line, you could heal others faster etc.

I also think armor is a must in spirits, they're extremely weak - particularly against an elementalist - I mean all they do is one AOE spell and it almost/completely wipes them out. For the time it takes to summon a spirit is already pretty bad in itself - at least make it so they have SOME defence to make up for this casting time.

I suggest for each level in Spawning Power, any spirit summoned (undead included) has 3 base armor. This means at 16 SP, all spirits you create would have 48 armor (not too much that it's overpowering, but at the same time enough to take a bit longer to kill)

Another thing that I think would increase SP's popularity is to make spirits do 1 more damage per level. At 16 SP this is pretty powerful if you have a few spirits with you!

The only downside to this is, if you were to try 600'ing in CoF using a rit with this buff to Spawning Power, and the decreased recharge item spell (Spirit Vortex) you'd need high Spawning Power to constantly maintain VWK, so by doing this, you'd have to sacrifice points in protection prayers... I dunno it's possible you could work around this I guess - maybe using heroes with superior runes to increase the health for Vital Blessing? To make up for the lost hitpoints for the superior rune of Spawning Power.

In conclusion, Spawning Power is changed to: Spirits have an increased armor rating, follow you, have more skills which help out other aspects of the rit, I.E. item spells, faster healing etc. and do 1 more damage for each level in Spawning Power.

Aljasha · Jun 13, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

i like your idea, balcu, but i'd definately tweak it a bit.

you should be able to summon a ghost with a spirit as basis and you are allowed to have only one at a time. the gosts act like pets and could use one or two skills on their own. to balance the ghosts with the pets, some skills should be changed in their functionality. one calls the ghost and destroys the spirit (possible synergies) and others heal or buff the gosts ability temporarily.

edit: as long as you/your team is limited to one spirit/ghost of each kind, there won't be any problems in pvp.

MithranArkanere · Jun 13, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Hm... speed for summoned creatures? Hm...

brawler · Jun 13, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

I would personally like to see a speed increase with the higher level of spawning power. After you are done casting 3...4...5 spirits the battle is normally finished and it was a waste of effort.

Mikkelet · Jun 13, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

I like the Idea of "for every rank in SP, your enchantments last 2% longer". while still keeping the more hp for spirits function.

ogre_jd · Jun 14, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by brawler

I would personally like to see a speed increase with the higher level of spawning power. After you are done casting 3...4...5 spirits the battle is normally finished and it was a waste of effort.

Why are you casting 3...4...5 spirits in preparation for a battle, anyways? Pick two to specialize in and use the rest of your bar for other things.

spirit of defeat · Jun 14, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Why are you casting 3...4...5 spirits in preparation for a battle, anyways? Pick two to specialize in and use the rest of your bar for other things.

never used mobile spirits?
It works quite well. and uses 3-4 spirit's

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 14, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

never used mobile spirits?
It works quite well. and uses 3-4 spirit's

Awesome build! I love the ability of portable spirits! Thats really great and now I found my rit build!

Spawn all spirits, run up to foes, port spirits, run back and repeat as needed. lol!

PS: The idea of turning rits into necros is bad, even if the idea itself is good.
Being able to summon minion spirits without even needing a corpse is too powerful, but it would make rits one of the most played professions very quickly. The latest fad. Still, I like rits as they are.

Just add in a skill or spirit that extends the life time of spirits, if one isn't already in the game.

Teknikaali · Jun 14, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Spawn all spirits, run up to foes, port spirits, run back and watch your spirits die from one AoE hit. lol!

^ fixed.
This is the thing we are struggling with. I kinda wanted those 'mobile spirits' to actually be M like Moving and Mobile. Some spirits' models are actually chained to the spirit realm, while others like Recuperation isn't. Strange. A skill to UNLEASH THE DRAGO... err.. SPIRIT from spirit realm could be a nice addition.. Though taking up one slot is bad for such small profit..
Rt/Me Spirits of War is the one I randomly use while pugging Zaishen Quests..

So I really liked Balcu's suggestions.