Curse

phoenixtech · Jun 21, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Allow skill changes/attribute point changes/equipment changes mid game (except for rez signet or anything that is permanantly disabled) upon morale boost.

OR: Allow us to bring 3 different skill templates/equipment into the match and allow us to swap skill bars upon morale boost.

This would bring more flexibility to builds and allow more dynamic counters to be brought mid-game. It would also give morale boosts more useful effects.

Dont Nerf The Perma · Jun 22, 2009, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Theres no way to counter the other team with that, since everyone would change builds, everyone would find themselves fighting a completely different team. If the other team happened to a morale boost before the other they could change their builds to completely destroy the other team giving them no chance. It would turn the game into a race to get the first morale boost.

Thamior Shamus · Jun 22, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I'm sorry to say that that would do the opposite of making the game balanced.

Tender Wolf · Jun 22, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I never PVP and even I can tell that wouldn't balance anything. "Hey that guy has Meteor Shower! Quick, get a daze/interrupt build! Get that flag over there so we can get our morale boost!" Morale boost already gives us extra health and energy. /notsigned

the Puppeteer · Jun 22, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

primary set skills: all defences + snares for getting the morale from the flag
2nd set: counter X
3rd set: counter Y

no tnx
/not signed

Expherious · Jun 22, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard this would allow us to defeat anything in our way seriously 3 templates... 2 would be sufficient enough to wipe a team

ANTI-CASTER *BAM* ANTI-MELEE

Cmon man, this before you post.

Killed u man · Jun 22, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

This would bring more flexibility to builds and allow more dynamic counters to be brought mid-game. It would also give morale boosts more useful effects.

This is where you failed...

Currently, people have to run a build that's viable in all/most common situations. Thus, it can be called a flexible build because instead being really good in 1 thing, it's being good in EVERYTHING.

If people are allowed to bring 3 different skill bars, and thus 3 overal builds (for the intire team), the individual builds themselves would become complete 1-dmensional buttonbash builds.

Now for PvE, this wouldn't be a problem, because bars in PvE are already as one-dimensional as they can get, but in PvP, this would become a serious problem.

/notsigned forclearly being a bad suggestion from, no offence, someone who clearly doesn't understand game balance. (Yet)

Still Number One · Jun 22, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Words really can't describe how bad this idea actually is, so I'll just say...

no

subarucar · Jun 22, 2009, 03:54 AM // 03:54

So the team thats currently winning gets an even bigger advantage?

Darth The Xx · Jun 22, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Kind of defeats the purpose of making a build doesn't it?

Reverend Dr · Jun 22, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

Allow skill changes/attribute point changes/equipment changes mid game (except for rez signet or anything that is permanantly disabled) upon morale boost.

Aside from Skill changes (which would make anything with a hard counter completely useless) everything else used to be in the game, but was taken out.

Yichi · Jun 22, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

RotteN · Jun 22, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Please stop talking about PvP until you actually have a clue about what you're talking.

Thank you

Age · Jun 23, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

You want this like Territorial Wars that is in PWI.

phoenixtech · Jun 23, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Aside from Skill changes (which would make anything with a hard counter completely useless) everything else used to be in the game, but was taken out.

Hard counters are bad for the game. Encouraged rock-paper-scissors.

I guess I'll take the time to spell this out for people since so many just comes in and and trolls without doing anything constructive. First let's talk about how we got to this point.

1) The game balance was probably at it's pinnacle during prophecies, if you disagree with that don't bother reading any further and your responses will be ignored.

2) At prophecies, there were only so many viable builds available, and general purpose soft counters such as e-denial was actually functional back then. E-denial really doesn't work very well these days.

3) Once the new expansions came out, you now have to bring more and more specific bars in your team build to have a chance against more variety of "gimmicks".

4) The net effect of those changes pretty much limits build variety so that in order to be successful, most people generally play "balanced." Like one of the posters said, a jack-of-all-trades build.

The problem with the above, is that pretty much everyone runs the same damn build. Imagine a Starcraft where everyone is Terrans and there's no zerg or protoss around. This is where the game is at today, frankly, it's not very fun and No, reverting the power creep or deleting the expansion classes aren't an option.

So going forth, how could be improve on the situation, if it isn't too late already. Seeing from the responses from this post, it's pretty obvious very little good players play anymore. Well, you could re-design a whole bunch of skills so at the individual level, each bar would have more soft-counters built it. Basically buff a whole bunch of non-elites to d-shot level of pwnage. This option seems very unlikely given the amount of resources ANET has on GW1 (the 2 man team I believe they have on GW1).

The second option, would be bar-expansion. There's two easy ways to do this, first is to expand teams to 12v12. With the amount of people in the game, this would be very counter-productive since it is hard enough just to get the 8 players required.

The second way to do this, and it would also benefit all other PVP types such as RA, TA, and HA, is to do limited bar-expansion at the individual level. Which is where this idea of skill substitution or template swapping comes in to play. Now, granted the swapping upon morale bonus thing was just the first random idea that comes into my mind and was probably not well thought out, but the discussion should be on whether we should be doing LIMITED bar expansion at the individual levels, and by LIMITED I mean you can't just swap skills at will, and remember, you are still locked in to your primary class.

I guess a sport analogy would be subbing in players to counter certain tactics from the opposing team during timeouts/dead ball.

Constructive comments welcome, trolls that comes into every thread just to say "DUMBEST IDEA EVA!!!" can kiss my ass.

Yichi · Jun 23, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

Constructive comments welcome, trolls that comes into every thread just to say "DUMBEST IDEA EVA!!!" can kiss my ass.

You cant constructively comment on something that defies logic and borders on the realm of stupidity...

Chocobo1 · Jun 23, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

Seeing from the responses from this post, it's pretty obvious very little good players play anymore. .

Firstly: Your suggestion would break the game, and is the exact opposite to flexibility. Don't get mad because your suggestion wasn't well reciieved, maybe get a little info on what you are discussing before making changes that would completely change the game.

Secondly, I hear this a lot. Good players don't play anymore, the game is filled with bad players. Newsflash, the game has always had bad players. The good players aren't noticed anymore because the skills are so ridiciously overpowered that it takes so little thought to play at a competitive level. There are many good players in the game, but apart from a few little things there is barely anything that sets them apart from the next Palm Strike sin etc.

phoenixtech · Jun 23, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Firstly: Your suggestion would break the game, and is the exact opposite to flexibility.

The game is already broken.

I also gave a details on how this would be implemented, one example would be you can give 2 skill changes per match. Now you want to give me some details on how this would be the exact opposite to flexibility?

Hell, let's get even more detailed. Say you are in match going up against a FOC spike team back in the day, and you aren't built for it. Auto-lose then cry buildwars and cry for nerfs to FOC? Say both sides had the option to bring sub out 2 of your 8 skills per match (except rez). This would be less flexible?

Chocobo1 · Jun 23, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

The game is already broken.

I also gave a details on how this would be implemented, one example would be you can give 2 skill changes per match. Now you want to give me some details on how this would be the exact opposite to flexibility?

Hell, let's get even more detailed. Say you are in match going up against a FOC spike team back in the day, and you aren't built for it. Auto-lose then cry buildwars and cry for nerfs to FOC? Say both sides had the option to bring sub out 2 of your 8 skills per match (except rez). This would be less flexible?

You have 8 players. Some skills on your team should be able to counter the others. Switching skills out just promotes relying on lame builds and then switching to the counter as soon as you figure it out. Not really skillfull.

phoenixtech · Jun 24, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

You have 8 players. Some skills on your team should be able to counter the others. Switching skills out just promotes relying on lame builds and then switching to the counter as soon as you figure it out. Not really skillfull.

I think you've missed my point. Yes you have 8 players, and you are now forced to bring all sorts of stuff to counter the others or atleast most of the common builds that you might potentially face. The problem with this approach to the game, is that it eventually converges everything into one single mainstream build: the jack of all trades "balanced" build. See my starcraft analogy on why this is bad for the game.

My idea of game balance is Starcraft where you have different styles of play that all have a equal chance of winning. Where you can dynamically switch strategies mid-game to counter opponent strategies, so an RTS-like approach. Oh for the idiots that will say "then go play starcraft" I plan to, so don't bother trolling.