Curse

Janlijm · Jun 24, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I read a intresting topic on the guildwarswiki talkpages and thought that not everyone reads guildwarswiki so I thought maybe it is good to discuss it also here. I wil copie the topic in this thread. So that you can give your opinions too.

Copie from Guildwarswiki:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...wars_economics

Guildwars economics
I tried to ask regina about it and if she could ask other employers of arenanet about a opinion I have about the Economics in GW. But she was buzy. Maybe I have posted something in history(about the minipets) but I want to discuss it in its whole length now. And I hope other people will give their opinions too. And I know alot of highcore players read this, but don't flame the idea but think about it and then give your own opinion. I know you maybe already buyed a minipet for 10000ecto and don't want to make them cheaper for other people. But think about it, did you had fun to get those 10000ecto? Guess not. Ok I can explain more but I shall now give my opinion and if there are questions they can be asked after it and then I will explain them as far as I can. But I did like to hear your opinions too:

I want to share an opinion about the guildwars economy with you it is kind of long so dont be scared^^. Maybe it is good to share it with other anet employees and to share thought about it. I hope you will respect my opinion. I want to complain about the gw economy.

First people at the moment got little money or alot. This is because there are normal players who play the game and players who speedclear uw, doa, fow or zkeys in gvg. Today I saw 7people with 700-950ectos. They said they farmed it by doing uwsc etc. Those people want rare items which makes the items even more expensive. For example rare minipets like panda are now worth like 15000ecto so only the people who farm(in sick ways can get these items.) When people complain about it on wiki, the most people who will chat are people who dont want to change it since they do it themselfs. But what would be wrong if those minipets would be put ingame, but in a hardway(end chest etc, or maybe zreward:200goldcoins). They would be 300ecto maybe instead of 15000ecto. And the people who want them buy them. Maybe they quit or play less but whats wrong with players playing less, and in theend they will buy gw2 anyway. And if you say we cant make them ingame since they are given out for wins in past for japancontests. Look at gw market how many of them are traded do you really think the winners still got them. Of course not the sold them in the time they were given out since HoM didn’t exist and they could buy more items for the money they received.

The only way to get a lots of money is doa,uwsc etc and these instances are playable with good players who mostly form guildteams, but pugs in these towns fail most of the time(for example 6/10uwsc pugs fails or so). and changing uwsc wont help anymore since people already got there 9000ectos in storage and removing all ecto would make people angry. So maybe it is time to change things in gw, make rare minipets drop in rare chest so that prices drop to normal amounts. And yes you say I only say rare minipets but these are the best example of items were the economy is running crazy at, at the moment. I mean 15000ecto=600.000.000gold. I hope you guys will look into this. But if you look at other games it has alwese been this way but why? People who got everything play the game for fun but at the moment they just farm to get one of those minis since everyone want to fill there HoM. And gw doesnt have reasons to keep people playing so why let them play in sick ways the game.

WoW wants money each month gw doesnt, they just want that people buy there games and people will do this anyway since gw is just a great game.if you guys change it people can still buy ztitle with there ecto's so they wont get effected by it, or at better farmplaces to the game were normal people can farm, but those get nerfed to since they are grind and damage economy. Why not change the guildwars hardfarms? Normal people can earn less and less money and prices on rare items go up. Thats all I hope you guys will share your opinions to and if you got questions ask them. This is my opinion at the moment about gw economic. Owh and I dont want to flame gw for being a stopped game or something. Its the best game I have seen till now. Even Aion can't tip at it. But thinks can alwese be better isn't it

. (For the suggestion people among us, I ask for opinions we can make suggestions later when the stuff is fix on the wikipages for suggestions.)

Savio · Jun 24, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janlijm

I wrote a topic on the guildwarswiki talkpages

Fixed. Also you don't have to have everything in the game.

Island Guardian · Jun 25, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

I actually found getting XXXXe+ fun. i learned about the economics of the game and i enjoy trading. Why should Anet make minis drop from chests? they shouldn't. this would then decrease the price overall. The only reason people pay so much for these pets is because there rare. People want to stand out and not just be a part of the crowd.

Life isnt always fair. Guild wars isn't always fair. If you want a panda get 15ke if you dont then to bad. People who don't want to grind for titles grind for other things.

If your going to make getting mini pets easier make titles easier, make Pvp easier.
thats a lame way to look at life.

/NOT SIGN LOL

citizensmith1001 · Jun 25, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

/Notsigned
Same as the real world economy the guild wars economy need rare and luxury items for people to aspire to own,i don't know about you but i think i would find guild wars very boring if you could buy any item ingame for a few thousand platinum and if after a few months work you could buy anything and everything in the game , one of the reasons people continue to play after 2 or 3 years is because they want to get enough money together to purchase the rare and sought after minatures and weapons.

Bob Slydell · Jun 25, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Try to break it up into readable segments by separating the points so you don't have a giant block. Makes it easier to read. If you want to post something to get a point out, you gotta make it readable.

Elephantaliste · Jun 25, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janlijm

For the suggestion people among us, I ask for opinions we can make suggestions later when the stuff is fix on the wikipages for suggestions.)

Opinions about what ? you should make at least some conclusions from all what you said, if ever you have some to do. If not what the point of your topic, none gonna read your huge paragraph.

Until then, cool story bro...

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 25, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

You want us to go communist?!

subarucar · Jun 25, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Rare items create a goal for certain people, make those items easy to get, and you take away that sense of achievement.

Icy The Mage · Jun 25, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Guardian

I actually found getting XXXXe+ fun. i learned about the economics of the game and i enjoy trading. Why should Anet make minis drop from chests? they shouldn't. this would then decrease the price overall. The only reason people pay so much for these pets is because there rare. People want to stand out and not just be a part of the crowd.

Life isnt always fair. Guild wars isn't always fair. If you want a panda get 15ke if you dont then to bad. People who don't want to grind for titles grind for other things.

If your going to make getting mini pets easier make titles easier, make Pvp easier.
thats a lame way to look at life.

/NOT SIGN LOL

QFT

As said, the reason people are still bothering with this game is either PvP, chatting / hanging with friends and those people who are title grinding or grinding to own these rare minis & items etc...

Doing this would dramatically decrease a lot of the population of GW.

Martin Alvito · Jun 25, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

/notsigned

You have a logical inconsistency in your argument. You say that, "removing all ecto would make people angry." However, making rare minipets common is functionally equivalent to removing large quantities of ecto from the storages of a small number of players. This would make those players at least as angry as the "people" in your argument.

To remove the inconsistency, you must explain why it is morally right to make a small number of players VERY unhappy, but not morally right to make a large number of players unhappy. As it stands, you exclude the possibility of one injustice but advocate another injustice that is functionally equivalent to the affected players.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 25, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

I have 36-37 different mini's and I plan to get each and every one. Making it easier to get them would defeat the purpose of them being a collectable. If someone walked up to me and gave me a free Kanax, I would be happy and accept it, sure.

But I would not feel the same amount of satisfaction when I looked at my collection.

My collection is built through work, dedication of hundreds of hours, grinding and making that money. I would welcome NEW mini's that drop from chests, but not pre existing ones.

Plus its already easy to get like 89%-90% of the mini's in the game. You don't even have to do anything to get them. You make a character and come back in a year and "poof" you got a mini. Whats easier than "don't have to do anything to get something"?

If waiting 365 days is hard work, then lol. Besides, theres less than 30 mini's in the game that actually cost a lot. You spend 1 year grinding fow for ecto's or RoT for ambraces and you will be so freaking rich you could buy every single mini and still have money left over. Thats not even hard work with current builds. Its just time consuming and repetitive, but not hard.

Point of my long, unneeded post is...
/notsigned.

Janlijm · Jun 25, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

I have 36-37 different mini's and I plan to get each and every one. Making it easier to get them would defeat the purpose of them being a collectable. If someone walked up to me and gave me a free Kanax, I would be happy and accept it, sure.

But I would not feel the same amount of satisfaction when I looked at my collection.

My collection is built through work, dedication of hundreds of hours, grinding and making that money. I would welcome NEW mini's that drop from chests, but not pre existing ones.

Plus its already easy to get like 89%-90% of the mini's in the game. You don't even have to do anything to get them. You make a character and come back in a year and "poof" you got a mini. Whats easier than "don't have to do anything to get something"?

If waiting 365 days is hard work, then lol. Besides, theres less than 30 mini's in the game that actually cost a lot. You spend 1 year grinding fow for ecto's or RoT for ambraces and you will be so freaking rich you could buy every single mini and still have money left over. Thats not even hard work with current builds. Its just time consuming and repetitive, but not hard.

Point of my long, unneeded post is...
/notsigned.

I guess you cant get those items if you have got a hardfarm guild is it? So people who just want to chat with other people in there guild they are playing with for 4years. Cant get this rich because just most pugs cant run these hardfarm builds. And they arent good for the economic in Guildwars either. And since everyone wants these rare minipets. They will only become more and more expensive. So if you say farm 1year and you can buy them that can't be true because alot of players are doing this. Because they want one but there are only a few of them. I would say let them drop maybe 0.1% at a endchest sothat people still need much money to buy them.

But in this way they wont cost 15.000ecto but maybe 300-500ecto. Thats still alot of work to get. If you got a hardfarm guild who does Uwsc's this is easy to get but what about people who dont got these things(guilds who hardfarm or gvg alot.) And say it yourself are these uwsc fowsc fun. No it is one big grind to do it just 10000times to get these ectos. But mark my words I guess next year a unded panda will cost 30.000ecto. If there are any unded panda's left. I dont want to make them very easy to get just reason able to get and 30.000ectos or 15.000 isnt normal for a item in guildwars.

Operative 14 · Jun 25, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janlijm

... But mark my words I guess next year a unded panda will cost 30.000ecto. If there are any unded panda's left. I dont want to make them very easy to get just reason able to get and 30.000ectos or 15.000 isnt normal for a item in guildwars.

However, these aren't 'normal' items either. I agree with most of what you say, I even support the sentiment. However, I also have to agree with the above posters in that the thing that makes GW playable for me at this moment is building up my funds for something down the road. I think no matter what there will always be super rare items in the game.

From what I could gather, your suggestion is to make Pandas and other incredibly rare minis either drop from the Z-chest, or cost exorbitant amounts of Z-coins to keep them rare, but not that rare. I think I'd have to /sign that idea. Mini Polar bears are still quite valuable even though they are a chest drop (albeit for 3 weeks out of every year). I think it would give the average player a chance at something extraordinary, whether it's in the form of a rare minipet or a huge payday from selling it.

However, I think they would have to keep them relatively limited so that they don't get over farmed, as it were. Last Christmas Mini Polar bears went from 1200e to 300e in a matter of weeks. If we were able to farm them all year 'round, I'd wager that they'd be worth less than 100k right now. The implementation, through whatever means, would have to be finely balanced.

Bristlebane · Jun 25, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I'm a causual player for 3+ years, I tend to avoid everything that ends with SC as I think it takes the fun out of gaming. I had maybe 150k and a dozen ectos at most. That being said, chance is very small I would own rare minipets even if it would be fun. I still enjoy the game, maybe even more than all the **SC, power traders and 4-12h daily hardcore farmers.

There is no need to get theese ultra-rare minipets or weapon, you can enjoy the game just as much without it. Let theese hardcore farmers have something to work for and spend their money on and find pets/items that you like without checking at the price tag. It doesn't matter if you find common items attractive, important is what you like and not what everyone else like (hence the high price tags).

I like many of the newbie armor sets as I find a lot of them more estethically pleasing than elite sets. I do have a few elite sets but that's not why I would get them. Same with minipets.

I'm sorry to say but,
/notsigned

MithranArkanere · Jun 26, 2009, 03:13 PM // 15:13

As I've said many times, the only thing GW's 'ecomoney' (I refuse to call it economy) needs is a way to make trading fast an easy for all players, withut having to leave the game or spend time spamming in outposts.

That's the only thing needed: Sell in-game, sell while playing.

No matter how much you farm or play, you'll get real cash by trading with other players.

Make trading accessible to anyone, and you fix the 'ecomoney'.

slith · Jun 26, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

As I've said many times, the only thing GW's 'ecomoney' (I refuse to call it economy) needs is a way to make trading fast an easy for all players, withut having to leave the game or spend time spamming in outposts.

That's the only thing needed: Sell in-game, sell while playing.

No matter how much you farm or play, you'll get real cash by trading with other players.

Make trading accessible to anyone, and you fix the 'ecomoney'.

/agree, im almost 4 years of playing myself and i always hated trading, then i even had trouble making money to buy the nice gear i always wanted. The thing i would love to see is an in-game auction system kinda like WoW but better. that way you could drop of your weapon (for a fee of course) and go on with your life, and if you still want to you can spam in trade chat. but the op's idea is un-needed and pointless

/no-sign

Travaail · Jul 03, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

easy way to fix ingame economy: nerf perma. enough said.