Curse

Forgotton200 · Jan 03, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

PvP based.

1.Mark of Insecurity:
Either fix it (enchantments and stances expire faster than it says) or reduce its duration, increase the recharge.

2.Lingering Curse:
You need low investment in curses to keep enemies suffering atm. Healing reduction should be scaled by Curses attribute.
It should be changed to degeneration -1...-2...-3 (currently -1...-3...-3), healing reduction: 0%...%14...%20 (currently 33% non-scales). So that fast casting usage won't overshine it.

3.Palm Strike:
a. remove crippling, increase recharge to 8 sec. or
b. keep crippling, increase energy cost to 10, increase recharge to 12 sec.

4.Peace and Harmony:
Increase cast time to 3/4 sec, add 0...48...60 direct healing for this skill, this skill can only target on other ally.

5.Seeping Wound:
This elite is still weak (especially compared to Palm Strike).
Change it to:
For 20 seconds, target foe suffers 1...3...3 health degeneration, and if target foe is suffering from Bleeding or Poison, that foe takes 5..15 damage per second.

6.Clamor of Souls:
This elite is still weak.
Add Crack Armor to this spell.

The problem with nerf is getting nerfed way too much. To those people who plays those certain profession as primary, would you keep using it after getting similar nerf to what OP states or will it be completely thrashed? For example, if the assassin gets nerfed and palm strike no longer does cripple and recharge is 8 seconds, would you keep using it? It seems like izzy either nukes the skill or overpowers it and it's probably going to be either one.

ManMadeGod · Jan 03, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

The problem with nerf is getting nerfed way too much. It seems like izzy either nukes the skill or overpowers it and it's probably going to be either one.

Sigh, that did happen a lot of times.
The way to stop [Jagged Bones] -> tripled the recharge.
The way to stop [Oppressive Gaze] Spike -> [Oppressive Gaze] was destroyed.
They way to stop smiter -> [Smiter's Boon] was destroyed.

There is no fine-tuning at all.

Icy The Mage · Jan 03, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

It didn't happen to Shadow form, I think Izzy likes being invincible.

Forgotton200 · Jan 03, 2009, 11:29 AM // 11:29

I'm actually happy the meta changed slightly. Although if you see my other posts in the pvp section, you can see me flaming every assassin trying to defend their skills but seeing something other than this stale war is nice:

I don't check obs. too often but I see assassin here and there in Guild vs. Guild now. Instead of the usual warriors + warriors, I see warriors + assassin often now. I don't have any interest in other form of pvp so I can't comment on that but I'm know it's worse and understand why people hate it.

ManMadeGod · Jan 03, 2009, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

I'm actually happy the meta changed slightly. Although if you see my other posts in the pvp section, you can see me flaming every assassin trying to defend their skills but seeing something other than this stale war is nice:

I slightly agree with you.
But where did those [Wounding Strike] dervishes go after [Signet of Mystic Speed] nerf?
Haven't seen them for ages.
And ele and necro are somewhat replaced by Mes, mes can cast faster and still send you [Diversion] [Shame] or [Signet of Humility].

Sad to say but it's boring to see tons of guilds run similar builds.

Zabe · Jan 03, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

When I saw your suggestion of making SB/RI spike comeback, I knew you are retard. And on topic, this thread is pointless, there is bunch of high-end GvG'rs trying to tell Izzy how this game would be better, and he doesn't listen them. You are really thinking that he starts now listening to random Guru PvE'rs?

EDIT: And doing skillbalances just to change meta is utterly retarded too, which leads to bad and degenerating skills we have at the moment.

Klem Da Aussie · Jan 03, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

im sorry for all u guys hoping for a fix bt izzy has already said that he IS NOT!!!!!!! changing anything, as for those dervishes the main reason the aret used anymore is because the WE axe does more dam and has moar armour and shit.

Forgotton200 · Jan 03, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klem Da Aussie

im sorry for all u guys hoping for a fix bt izzy has already said that he IS NOT!!!!!!! changing anything, as for those dervishes the main reason the aret used anymore is because the WE axe does more dam and has moar armour and shit.

o rly izzy rly said dat? den i tink itz time 2 close dis thread and shit.

Xsiriss · Jan 03, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I can tell you're an elitist prick, half of your 'balances' just add survivability to monks who were grossly OP and what's with the huge compaints on palm strike? A profession became useable again with a spike that can be reused oh noes, monks can be killed oh noes !1!111 Seriously adapt, that's what people did in shadow prison days and this way there's life in PvP rather than half the team being there for surivability.

On topic, [Poison Arrow] defo needs a buff. Put it in marksmanship attribute, give it a 1sec cast time and/or give it some damage. [Quick Shot] should also be put into marksmanship ,or even expertise, and given some function/damage buff.

ManMadeGod · Jan 03, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klem Da Aussie

im sorry for all u guys hoping for a fix bt izzy has already said that he IS NOT!!!!!!! changing anything.

Is there any link that talks about this?
If skills will no longer change anymore, why bother hiring a skill balancer?

SOF · Jan 03, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

PvP based.
3.Palm Strike:
a. remove crippling, increase recharge to 8 sec. or
b. keep crippling, increase energy cost to 10, increase recharge to 12 sec.

b. ~ /signed

Anon-e-mouse · Jan 03, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Also needs moving to Sardelac, and not Riverside.

Lorinda · Jan 03, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive

It didn't happen to Shadow form, I think Izzy likes being invincible.

I really dont mind Izzy being a shadow. He will post on his wiki page or work on GW 2 ( main excuse ) I rather see some one of public relations online.

On Topic:
Palm strike is really over the top now.
High damage for a touch skill and cripple AND fast recharge.
With no if or else in it.

I highly doubt they will fix all the skills that are broken or just over powered atm.
The main excuse is, we are working on GW 2 any ways.

Tyla · Jan 03, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

[visions of regret] - Works on attacks only. - In conjunction with Backfire, this skill is absolutely stupid. Either get rid of Backfire or get rid of VoR. I would rather see the latter go.
[lingering curse] - 10E, 15% reduction, adjacent range, max duration 10. - Absolutely insane.
[palm strike] - 8R, half cripple. - 123415 omg u ded.
[mark of insecurity] - 50...75% enchant/stance time reduction, max duration 10 seconds. - This removes most form of prot from the game, meaning you have to heal through shit, meaning you can stare at red bars and get away with it. Encourages unskillful play while killing an incredible amount of defense for 5 energy, lasting for a while and having a petty recharge of 10.
[shared burden] - Range to adjacent.
[wounding strike] - Swap conditions, recharge to 6. - Make it more managable. That, and if I go further people will moan and then this thread will die.
[warriors' endurance] - Duration max 20. - Easy mode for Warriors. Having a spike ready as soon as is just stupid.
[rampage as one] - Recharge to 20, energy to 15. Max duration 10. - IAS and IMS at the same time is dumb, simple as.
[restore condition] - Max heal per condition 40. - Pretty dumb healing strength.
[soul bind] - Recharge to 15. - T, *Soul Bind*, *Cover*, *lol*.
[wail of doom] - Revert to old behaviour. - Removing someone from the game for 4 seconds is dumb. Simple as.
[blinding surge] - Revert to old behaviour. - AoE blind with a 4 second recharge and 3/4 cast is dumb. Simple as.
[mirror of ice] - No longer armour-ignoring. - Kills Kappaspike without killing the actual snares.
[avatar of melandru] - Max duration 30/40. - Immunity to blind, weakness, cripple and deep wound? You're friggin kidding me, even with the downtime of the skill. Heavy synergy with Wearying Strike is also here.
[primal rage] - Remove double damage, remove IAS, +5...20 damage if hitting a moving foe. - IAS and IMS at the same time is dumb. Simple as.

You can see that most of my list is based off nerfs. I'll update it with buffs when I care enough.

Edit: Thought I might update it a little, with reasons.

Dronte · Jan 03, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Ive created a same thread in sardelac a few days ago, whatever..

There u go: http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10345540
Might be a good idea to merch the two or something I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[wounding strike] - Swap conditions, recharge to 6.

Might be a bit too powerful for a non conditional dw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[warriors' endurance] - Duration max 20.

Its well balanced now, Primal Rage is used more often these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[rampage as one] - Recharge to 20, energy to 15.

Noone uses RaO anymore, no need to nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[restore condition] - Max heal per condition 40.

Might be a good idea to nerf RC to bring other elites into competition, but that'd just bring back condition pressure builds without a good counter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[wail of doom] - Revert to old behaviour.

Its fine as it is. Its just a hex guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[blinding surge] - Revert to old behaviour.

I see no problem with the current BS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[mirror of ice] - No longer armour-ignoring.

Fine as it is, thats not the skill that should be nerfed in kappaspike imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[avatar of melandru] - Max duration 30/40.

No need to nerf, its bad already.

Lorinda · Jan 03, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

*loads of skills*

To continue the list you have started.

[Cleave] increase damage 12...30..35
Its not used at all.

[Shield of regeneration] 10e reduction armor bonus 20, reduction regen 2..7..9
It is a decent skill, but it needs some love.

[Aura of the Lich] Revert to old behaviour or remove the free minion.
Minions come from corpses, not out of the cold ground.

[Healing Burst] Increase healing 10..115..140, increase healing area members 10..25..30
Decent skill, just a little tweak.

[Scribe's Insight] Compleet redo, Monk signets heal for 25 % more and recharge 25 % faster.
Heavy signet builds dont need energy. Not loads any ways.

[Decapitate] 10 Adrenaline, Same damage, auto crit, deep wound when target is above 90% health. No loss of energy and adrenaline.
It is unusable now. Many warrior elites are far superior.

["It's just a flesh wound."] Ally recieves 1 energy and 1 adrenaline for every condition removed. If nothing was removed, you lose 5 energy.
Since it is a motivation skill it should do something usefull for your allies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dronte

Ive created a same thread in sardelac a few days ago, whatever..

Merging doesnt work out all the time. But we can continue in the oldst topic.

Tyla · Jan 03, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dronte

Might be a bit too powerful for a non conditional dw.

I agree, but if I go overboard I'll end up killing the thread...

...as usual.

Quote:

Its well balanced now, Primal Rage is used more often these days.

Good call. I forgot to put in Primal Rage. I'd rather see it as a running skill with +damage on moving targets, same recharge duration and energy and the double damage removed. An elite Rush.

IAS + IMS at the same time is just overboard.

Quote:

Noone uses RaO anymore, no need to nerf.

Having an IMS and an IAS up at the same time, as said before, is pretty overboard.

Quote:

Might be a good idea to nerf RC to bring other elites into competition, but that'd just bring back condition pressure builds without a good counter.

To me, the heal on RC is a little over the top. Removing 3 conditions will still result in a heal of over a 100, though.

Quote:

Its fine as it is. Its just a hex guys.

Removing people from the game isn't "fine". Especially when you can just go "olol pop dis on dat target" with little chance of interruption.

Quote:

I see no problem with the current BS.

When I say "original behaviour" I mean the one where you deal AoE blind if the target is enchanted. Having it automatically AoE is pretty dumb if you ask me, especially on 4 recharge.

Quote:

Fine as it is, thats not the skill that should be nerfed in kappaspike imo.

It brought Kappaspike, taking it down should get rid of it. You've got it coming at least 10 times so it's roughly 270 damage alone.

Quote:

No need to nerf, its bad already.

Immunity to deep wound is still pretty dumb. Saying that, in PvP Dervs in general are pretty dumb.

God_Hand · Jan 03, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

My thoughts in BOLD

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

PvP based.

1.Mark of Insecurity:
Either fix it (enchantments and stances expire faster than it says) or reduce its duration, increase the recharge.

What are you talking about? It says they expire 90% faster. This implies that they'd last around a little over half their normal duration, but they really only last 10% of their normal duration. ANet just worded it funny.

2.Lingering Curse:
You need low investment in curses to keep enemies suffering atm. Healing reduction should be scaled by Curses attribute.
It should be changed to degeneration -1...-2...-3 (currently -1...-3...-3), healing reduction: 0%...%14...%20 (currently 33% non-scales). So that fast casting usage won't overshine it.

It needs a nerf, but this might be overkill.

3.Palm Strike:
a. remove crippling, increase recharge to 8 sec. or
b. keep crippling, increase energy cost to 10, increase recharge to 12 sec.

I see what you're going for. Good idea.

4.Peace and Harmony:
Increase cast time to 3/4 sec, add 0...48...60 direct healing for this skill, this skill can only target on other ally.

Ohh, MAN! EVER HEARD OF DIVINE FAVOR???

5.Seeping Wound:
This elite is still weak (especially compared to Palm Strike).
Change it to:
For 20 seconds, target foe suffers 1...3...3 health degeneration, and if target foe is suffering from Bleeding or Poison, that foe takes 5..15 damage per second.

I feel that that would make 17.5 pips of degen way too easy to accomplish. (7.5 from the natural damage of the skill)

6.Clamor of Souls:
This elite is still weak.
Add Crack Armor to this spell.

No. The fundamental problem is that there's no reason to use this over Caretaker's Charge, which does more damage, recharges faster, and gives you the initial energy back if you're holding an item as well. Adding Cracked Armor probably won't convince anyone to use it.

Other suggestion: (just some ideas, some may be overpowered so the numbers are just for references)

Recurring Insecurity:
And also reply when target suffers a new hex.

With the latest fix in which it doesn't reapply when forcefully removed, RI has pretty much fallen out of the meta. And this won't bring it back.

Visions of Regret(PvP):
Increase recharge to 25 seconds. No longer hexes adjacent foes.

I think you meant to say "Remove VoR from the game."

Feast of Corruption:
Reduce energy cost to 10.
Functionality changed to: "For 5 seconds, target foe and all foes adjacent to this location take 5...37...45 shadow damage each second and steal x...y...z health from foes suffering from a hex".

Great, a Jesus Beam (Ray of Judgment) that MOVES WITH ITS TARGET. That's great. Oh, and it does more damage if they're hexed? Ok, talk about overkill...

Onslaught:
Change it to a Stance.

No.

Reaper's Sweep:
Decrease cast time to .25 second. Increase recharge to 10 seconds.
Functionality changed to: "Interrupt target foe's action, this attack deal +x...Y...Z damage if it hits. If a skill is Interrupted this way, Reaper's Sweep inflicts a deep wound for 5...17...20 seconds."

No.

Magehunter Strike:
Increase recharge to 10 second.
Functionality changed to: "If this attack hits, you interrupt target foe's action. If this attack hit, you deal +5...17...20 damage. If your target is under the effects of an Enchantment, this attack cannot be blocked."

Just what I wanted! An elite Savage Slash! But in all seriousness, absolutely not. Underpowered elite is underpowered.

Weapon of Quickening:
Decrease cast time to 1/4 second.

Why?

Defiant Was Xinrae:
Increase energy cost to 15, Hold Xinrae's ashes for up to 15...51...60 seconds. While you hold her ashes, you cannot lose more than 40%...15%...10% of your max Health from a single hit. When you drop her ashes, you steal 5...41...50 Health from all nearby foes.

Eh... maybe. Probably not, though...

Tranquil Was Tanasen:
Decrease energy cost to 5.
Increase duration to 5...22...25 seconds.

Good lord, what were you smoking when you suggested this? You DO realize this skill gives you armor out the wazoo, but also prevents interruption? And you want to make it cost LESS and last LONGER? Eh, whatever, noone uses this anyway.

Soul Twisting:
Move to Spawning power line, increase energy cost and recharge. No longer target anything.
Functionality changed to: " For x...y...z seconds, your rituals cast 0%...50%...66% faster.

Still seems underpowered as an elite, even with your change.

Cultist's Fervor:
For 20 seconds, your Necromancer spells cast 5%...36%...40% faster but you suffer from bleeding for 10 seconds each time you cast a spell.

That would make this skill absolutely worthless.

Virulence:
Increase energy cost to 10.
Functionality changed to: "If target foe was already suffering from a condition, that foe suffers from Poison, Bleeding and Deep Wound for 0...12...15 seconds."

Deep wound? Uh, no.

Signet of Suffering
Decrease cast time to 1 second.
For each hex on target foe, that foe takes 5...29...35 damage (maximum 140 damage) and suffers a deep wound for x...y...z second.

See "Virulence".

To be continued...
any suggestions are welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[visions of regret] - Works on attacks only.

Elite empathy? I believe you meant to type "Works on attack skills only."

[lingering curse] - 10E, 15% reduction, adjacent range.

Agree, with reservations.

[palm strike] - 8R, half cripple.

Agree.

[mark of insecurity] - 50...75% enchant/stance time reduction.

75%? That's not really that big of a nerf.

[shared burden] - Range to adjacent.

Sure, why not?

[wounding strike] - Swap conditions, recharge to 6.

Kills Dervishes.

[warriors' endurance] - Duration max 20.

Primal Rage has taken WE's throne.

[rampage as one] - Recharge to 20, energy to 15.

When you think about it, this is kind of a buff. There's only 4 seconds where you don't have it up, and it only costs 7-8-9 energy?

[restore condition] - Max heal per condition 40.

Not in my book.

[soul bind] - Recharge to 15.

Not that big of a nerf. I don't think it needs it anyway.

[wail of doom] - Revert to old behaviour.

Can't comment, seeing as how I can't find its old behavior anywhere.

[blinding surge] - Revert to old behaviour.

Can't comment, seeing as how I can't find its old behavior anywhere.

[mirror of ice] - No longer armour-ignoring.

It's fine, leave it.

[avatar of melandru] - Max duration 30/40.

I believe you meant to type Avatar of Lyssa

You can see that most of my list is based off nerfs. I'll update it with buffs when I care enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda

To continue the list you have started.

[Cleave] increase damage 12...30..35
Its not used at all.

Still wouldn't make it "used".

[Shield of regeneration] 10e reduction armor bonus 20, reduction regen 2..7..9
It is a decent skill, but it needs some love.

I don't feel that 10e justifies reducing the armor. Way to nerf it.

[Aura of the Lich] Revert to old behaviour or remove the free minion.
Minions come from corpses, not out of the cold ground.

I agree, this skill needs a complete overhaul. But I guess in Tyria & Cantha & Elona, there's plenty of corpses lying under the earth.

[Healing Burst] Increase healing 10..115..140, increase healing area members 10..25..30
Decent skill, just a little tweak.

Still doesn't justify it as an elite. 10 recharge? Too long...
Edit: Oops, looked at the Guru tab for this skill, hasn't been updated in a while. A four second recharge is much better!

[Scribe's Insight] Compleet redo, Monk signets heal for 25 % more and recharge 25 % faster.
Heavy signet builds dont need energy. Not loads any ways.

Here's one I'll completely agree with. How is this an elite?

[Decapitate] 10 Adrenaline, Same damage, auto crit, deep wound when target is above 90% health. No loss of energy and adrenaline.
It is unusable now. Many warrior elites are far superior.

Auto crit & No energy or Adren loss? OVERKILL! So, no.

["It's just a flesh wound."] Ally recieves 1 energy and 1 adrenaline for every condition removed. If nothing was removed, you lose 5 energy.
Since it is a motivation skill it should do something usefull for your allies.

I feel this skill, along with "Can't Touch This!", "The Power is Yours!", etc., were put in the game just to have the pop culture references.

Merging doesnt work out all the time. But we can continue in the oldst topic.

kostolomac · Jan 03, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

My suggestion:
MoI : increase recharge and fix it because 90% means that stances and enchants will last a bit over half of their normal duration.

PnH : add double divine favor bonus

VoR: Increase energy cost

Lingering : increase energy cost to 20 , keep it aoe and increase recharge a bit
or keep the same e-cost and make it a single target hex

Palm strike : reduce cripled duration and up the recharge to 6 or 8 seconds.

Robbert Monga · Jan 03, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

My personal issue with Palm Strike is not that it is spammable, but rather that there is no penalty for it. I say leave it as is, but add gray print: "If this attack fails, damage and cripple applied to you". That way 3000000 narutards wont stop spamming it, but I'll have more fun killing them.