Curse

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 26, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Because DERVISHES ARE NOT BAD. THEY DO NOT NEED A BUFF. THEY ARE HOWEVER OUTPERFORMED BY WARRIORS AND SINS

Caps for emphasis to those who can't read.

I mean, give or take, I'd gladly take a buff, but still..

Destro Maniak · Jun 26, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

maybe making mysticism more usefull for SCYTHE purposes is the answer

giving them a energy management skill like warriors endurance (non-elite mysticism related)
giving them an IAS
removing "remove enchantment" from some skills

and some other stuff maybe

Arkantos · Jun 26, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

No, Arkantos, it won't. However, if this change was included in say, the next major profession overhaul like how this month's had two major profession overhauls, then it will be something to make people prefer Dervishes over Scythewars and Critscythes. And, hopefully, put Dervishes on par with warriors and assassins.

I'd agree with a major dervish overhaul (because they really are subpar to warriors and assassins in most places), but buffing this one skill alone won't change anything.

Coast · Jul 06, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

Mysticism: Whenever an Enchantment ends, all nearby foes take 2 holy damage for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Mysticism.

I can see it now.. a new build called Dervish Bombing consisting of 5 Dervishes and party-wide enchantments.

alrdy excists tho

reaper with no name · Jul 06, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Wow. I feel so proud to have spawned a suggestion thread.

Assassins and Warriors being able to outscythe dervs is like an elementalist being able to outdagger a sin, or a sin being able to outhammer a warrior. The whole point of dervishes is that they are scythe wielding holy warriors. Sins and wars are not supposed to be able to beat them at the scythe game. At all. A ranger who picks up a hammer cannot outhammer a warrior. A dervish who picks up daggers cannot outdagger a sin. A monk who picks up a bow cannot outshoot a ranger. Why should a warrior who picks up a scythe be able to outscythe a dervish?

Should other classes be able to use a scythe effectively? Sure. But should they be able to do it better than the guy who was built specifically to do so? Heck no. You hear people complain about elementalists outhealing monks, and monks outnuking elementalists, and necros out-ritting rits (well, not any more, but...). This is the same exact thing. The easiest way to fix it is to modify the skill that every scythe wielder uses. It may not be the best way, but if it works, who cares? It's not like it's going to stop scythe sins and scythe wars from being viable; it's just going to stop them from making the dervish almost completely redundant.

Marverick · Jul 06, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Dervishes really need a maintainable IAS. Current options are far too impractical. Also Mysticism needs to have another benefit. And finally better energy management options need to be available; that's a main reason why sins/warriors/rangers can use a Scythe so well.

Some suggestions:

Heart of Fury: this needs to be maintainable. Increase duration to 5...25..30 and decrease energy cost to 5e. Also move 25% faster. It's an enchantment with a long recharge, so it shouldn't be op'ed.

Mysticism: this is just too weak in it's current state. For every 3 ranks in this attribute, you deal 1% more damage with your Scythe for each enchantment on you (max 25%). Whenever an enchantment ends on you, you gain blah blah blah (current functionality).

Pious Fury: you move and attack 10% faster for each enchantment active on you. Lasts 0...5..7 seconds, recharge 10.

Lyssa's Assault: gain 0...2..3 energy for each enchantment on you, and an additional 1 energy for every 3 ranks of Mysticism. Lower energy cost to 5.

Zealous Sweep: strike target foe twice, gaining 0...5..6 energy each hit. You have -4 energy degeneration until you hit target foe again.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Jul 06, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Wow. I feel so proud to have spawned a suggestion thread.

Assassins and Warriors being able to outscythe dervs is like an elementalist being able to outdagger a sin, or a sin being able to outhammer a warrior. The whole point of dervishes is that they are scythe wielding holy warriors. Sins and wars are not supposed to be able to beat them at the scythe game. At all. A ranger who picks up a hammer cannot outhammer a warrior. A dervish who picks up daggers cannot outdagger a sin. A monk who picks up a bow cannot outshoot a ranger. Why should a warrior who picks up a scythe be able to outscythe a dervish?

Should other classes be able to use a scythe effectively? Sure. But should they be able to do it better than the guy who was built specifically to do so? Heck no. You hear people complain about elementalists outhealing monks, and monks outnuking elementalists, and necros out-ritting rits (well, not any more, but...). This is the same exact thing. The easiest way to fix it is to modify the skill that every scythe wielder uses. It may not be the best way, but if it works, who cares? It's not like it's going to stop scythe sins and scythe wars from being viable; it's just going to stop them from making the dervish almost completely redundant.

The problem with War and Sin being able to out do the Derv comes from their primary. Wars get armor penetration, Sins get increased critical hit chance, Dervs get bumpkis.

The Derv primary gives a small bump in health and energy whooped-dee-doo. Doesn’t do much for their damage output now does it.

The War and Sin get their advantage from their primary, why wouldn’t they be able to swing a melee weapon better regardless of what type or whose line it came from? Better primaries related to damage so instead of qqing about them being better qq about how the Derv primary doesn’t do squat to help.

MithranArkanere · Jul 06, 2009, 11:27 PM // 23:27

If the change won't actually affect primary dervishes that put 10..12 points in Mysticism, then there is no problem with the change on the skills.

Changes that make the primary profession use the skill better than secondary are always good.

Hm... let's see...

Many Dervish skills are all about being in the middle of a bunch of monsters, and "Mystic" in the name of a skill usually means that will have some kind of effect "For each enchantment on you".
Mysticism could get an extra effect to go in that lines...

For example, possible choices...
* When an enchantment ends on you, adjacent enemies take 1 holy physical(the holy damage weapons and the lightbringer's gaze do) damage for each rank in mysticism.
* Adjacent enemies move 2% slower for each rank on mysticism.
* Gain some extra energy or health when enchantments end on you the more enemies surround you (with fixed maximums per rank, of course) or the more enchantments you have on you.
* Slight increase in the range for the initial and final effect of PBAoE enchantments cast on you.

Megas XLR · Jul 07, 2009, 12:44 AM // 00:44

I wish they would just buff up PBAoE skills to do more damage, I'm kinda irked that there are no PBAoE elites nor any elites that have an end effect.

Random Scrubinator · Jul 07, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

If you were there during the nightfall pvp event, contemplation of purity dervish bombing was hilariously overpowered. But seeing how ritualists were completely overhauled in pve, they could just do that

GourangaPizza · Jul 07, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

2 crappy attribute lines; Earth Prayers and Wind Prayers. Majority of the skills in there are pointless and subpar. Maybe they should remove the healing crap and add in more offensive oriented stuff like hexes, KD and 'Frenzy-like' IAS.

Pious Fury [5e, 12r]: Lose all enchantments. For 1..3..8 seconds, you attack 33% faster but receive 33% less benefit from healing.

IronSheik · Jul 07, 2009, 05:11 AM // 05:11

AoHM doesn't need a rework, scythe mastery/mysticism in general does. In almost all cases a sin is a better tank and DPSer

I never use mysticism on my derv, only the 3 extra I have laying over, and I use a pure scythe mastery/wind prayers build.