Curse

Targren · Jun 25, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

There are far better ways to fix balance than wildly brandishing the nerfbat.

/notsigned.

zelgadissan · Jun 25, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

still, if such a thing happens, assassins promise also should be assassin only skill because "elementalists can use assassins promise to spam meteor shower and its simply better than assassin" or "ritualist can use assassins promise to spam spirits and assassin is the worst class to use assassins promise"

/signed, make it Critical Strikes. Kinda surprised it hasn't already happened tbh, or at least just make it recharge your "attack skills" or your Assassin skills.

Still, Dervishes see no play in just about anything, and it's because other professions are simply better with their skills. The same thing was happening with Ritualists and weapon spells, and now they've been put a little more in check to where the durations are much shorter for non-Ritualists. This would be a similar and legitimate start to bringing Dervishes back for overall play.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Jun 25, 2009, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

You're still missing the point. Warriors and assassins use a scythe far more effectively than a derv. They also have higher AL and better IAS skills available.

In the comparison you have made your ranger IS in fact outhealing your monk, so something is terribly wrong. I never particularly liked dervs, but even I am happy to admit that they are seriously underpowered compared to the other two frontline professions in PvE - to the extent where they are worse at using their own weapon.

Then ask that Dervs get buffed instead of asking that a skill tied to a weapon line (as I understand it the reason every professions weapon lines are not their primary is so other professions can use those weapons) be nerfed so that only a Derv can use it, even though they are "underpowered compared to the other front line characters."

IMO the Dervish primary attribute affects are crap and need to be buffed drastically or changed all together. +1 health for each point in Mysticism +1 energy for each 3 points in Mysticism = junk for a frontline char. Give them more armor and longer enchat time for the points, +3 health and +2 energy for each point Mysticism, or more damage and increased attack speed something anything but the crap they are getting now. Also let Dervs have the possibility to run forms constantly in PvE.

If Dervs are the worst at using "their own" weapon why not ask that Dervs get a buff, it wouldn't hurt.

They did it for the Rits and Pargons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

/signed, make it Critical Strikes. Kinda surprised it hasn't already happened tbh, or at least just make it recharge your "attack skills" or your Assassin skills.

Not much synergy with the other professions.

Are you guys basically asking that Primary and Secondary profession skills have no synergy? Then why not ask that secondary professions be done away with.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 25, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

Then ask that Dervs get buffed instead of asking that a skill tied to a weapon line (as I understand it the reason every professions weapon lines are not their primary is so other professions can use those weapons) be nerfed so that only a Derv can use it, even though they are "underpowered compared to the other front line characters."

Because Dervishes do not need a buff. They are a very effective class. The trouble only lies within Warriors and Assassins, Who use dervishes primary weapon better then they do.

An earlier poster argued the point of AP. Assassin's promise is fine, IMO, because it does not allow other classes to outperform the Assassins' primary role.

Quote:

IMO the Dervish primary attribute affects are crap and need to be buffed drastically or changed all together. +1 health for each point in Mysticism +1 energy for each 3 points in Mysticism = junk for a frontline char. Give them more armor and longer enchat time for the points, +3 health and +2 energy for each point Mysticism, or more damage and increased attack speed something anything but the crap they are getting now. Also let Dervs have the possibility to run forms constantly in PvE.

Mysticism, abeit weak, is not crap if you know what you are doing. a player can easily micro a monk or N/Mo to use a quick, say, Patient Spirit, and give a dervish a free 4/5 energy. The health gain, IMO, is never, ever noticable.

I would like to see Mysticism buffed to make Dervs more effective.

and BTW, Dervishes can run forms constantly in PvE. It's called Eternal Aura.

Quote:

If Dervs are the worst at using "their own" weapon why not ask that Dervs get a buff, it wouldn't hurt.

They did it for the Rits and Pargons.

The only thing that got buffed about Rits was spirits, and they needed it. Weapon spells were reworded because currently, other classes did it better then Rits. Buffing and reworking are different things. Dervishes, like weapon spells, do not need a buff, they just need to make it so that other classes aren't superior to dervishes in pretty much every aspect.

Also, other classes, namely Warriors and Assassins ARE better with the spear then paragons are. It isn't an issue however, because that is hardly the focus -of- paragons.

Quote:

Not much synergy with the other professions.

Are you guys basically asking that Primary and Secondary skills have no synergy? Then why not ask that secondary professions be done away with.

No, if anything people are asking that certain sunspear/alliance skills be linked to primary professions.

Megas XLR · Jun 25, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Well, instead of taking away something from Aura of Holy Might, you could always add something to it.

Skill Description: Enchantment Spell. (20 seconds.)You deal +20...30...32% damage with your scythe. Initial effect: nearby foes take 40...48...50 holy damage. For every point of Mysticism you (balanced effect here). End effect: all nearby foes take 40...48...50 holy damage.

Or you could make it so the +20...30...32% could be lower like +10...18...20% and every point of mysticism = +1% damage.

ChocoboLIVE · Jun 25, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Ît's still make selfish skill. Besides it was a pve secondary option. Limiting or just brand nerfbat are the ones killing games. If you ever notice so far.

zelgadissan · Jun 25, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

Are you guys basically asking that Primary and Secondary profession skills have no synergy? Then why not ask that secondary professions be done away with.

Not remotely. What I eventually hope for (and know is never coming) is for a secondary to never be able to be that profession better than that primary. Prime example would be the Ritualist and the N/Rt. Another one would be the Monk and the Ether Renewal E/Mo. In PvP, for a while (and maybe still, haven't obs'd lately) it was the Elementalist and the FC Me/E.

For the record, a prime example of what I like to see is the basic dom Mesmer - a lot of their powerful skills (Diversion, Signet of Humility, etc.) have long casting times, and the primary attribute helps them do it better than anyone else. An example of the synergy you speak of that I like would be boonprot - using Inspiration (or Blood if you're old-school) for e-management while the strength of your build is primary driven (Divine Boon).

I love the secondary system and hope that it or something very similar exists in GW2. My problem comes when people can play a profession better than the profession itself. In this case, Assassins and Warriors are better Dervishes than the Dervish. Is this idea a correct fix? No. But it's at least a step towards making the Dervish an attractive option.

tl;dr - wall of text and river of tears.

Megas XLR · Jun 25, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Mysticism: Whenever an Enchantment ends, all nearby foes take 2 holy damage for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Mysticism.

I can see it now.. a new build called Dervish Bombing consisting of 5 Dervishes and party-wide enchantments.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Jun 25, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Guys I was just checking.

As far as having skills tied to their primary profession, isn't AoHM already tied to the Dervish profession by having the requirement that a scythe be the only weapon this skill can be used for?

It is tied to the Dervish profession, but you guys want to have a double req on it that it is tied to the Scythe line as well as the Mysticism line.

While Sins and Wars are better at using the Derv's weapon than the Derv doesn't that mean that there is something lacking on the Derv end that needs to be buffed to put them even with the other two front line fighters.

As I stated and is the reason weapons are not primary attributes of any profession they are meant to be useable by all professions.

The reason the Warrior and Sin are better at swinging a scythe isn't because they use the weapon any differently but because their primary attribute makes them better at it. Which means if the Derv's Primary attribute was buffed or changed (leaning toward changed) Dervs could use the scythe more effectively and better than the other two.

shoyon456 · Jun 25, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

The reason the Warrior and Sin are better at swinging a scythe isn't because they use the weapon any differently but because their primary attribute makes them better at it. Which means if the Derv's Primary attribute was buffed or changed (leaning toward changed) Dervs could use the scythe more effectively and better than the other two.

I agree. However that would also involve several skill changes and be a drastic rework involving much more effort than changing one skill. The underlying problem will never be fixed, as the live team is down to a few people and they can barely do what they're supposed to (failed XTH, buggy updates, etc...).

The optimal outcome would be a rework, but after nf anet pretty much tried to close the book on the dervish, and officially closed the book on GW after eotn.

Simply put, we have a much better chance at getting them to alter one skill than change a primary attribute. But in the end, I doubt anet will do anything because they just dont give a flying f**k anymore.

EDIT* WTH am I saying, they just did a change to Spawning Power and all thhose rit spirits. Surely this is simply profession discrimination on Anet's part.

pinguinius · Jun 25, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

This would do nothing to help dervishes, and in fact would only serve to hurt them in builds with lower mysticism (e.g. onslaught, EDA, conjure). The reason other professions can wield scythes more effectively than dervishes is that their primary attributes are better. Buff mysticism or its skills if you want dervishes to be more useful, don't lock every dervish into the running the same wounding strike/quick attacks/AoHM/HoF with 14 scythe and 12 mysticism by nerfing AoHM.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Jun 25, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

They have been reworking all kinds of skills, I'm not saying they should redo the whole profession but instead make the Primary do something besides a small bump in health and energy.

like I said change it so that it increases damage output, attack speed, armor or enchantment length something besides the insignificant bump in health and energy.

I think allowing the Derv to go over the 133% attack speed limit so that they swing a scythe at the same attack speed as an ax or sword would greatly improve their ability to use a scythe. It would defiantly make them better than Sins and Wars using a scythe.

Example for every point in Mysticism Dervs gain 1% base attack speed 100% being normal base level the attribute level and skills/cons cap can be stacked to 133..140..150% maximum.

0-10 = 133% max, 11-15 = 140% max, 16+ = 150%max

Trade off would be Derv critters would be swinging Scythes as fast as daggers.

Would also turn Dervs into sewing machines with daggers, swords and axes. Which might throw Pvp off balance.

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Nerfing scythes for warriors and assassins isn't going to make dervishes any more powerful or wanted, so I really don't see the point.

gameshoes3003 · Jun 26, 2009, 12:49 AM // 00:49

I personally thought this enchantment was pretty good. But perhaps I'm just not "pro" enough.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 26, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

No, Arkantos, it won't. However, if this change was included in say, the next major profession overhaul like how this month's had two major profession overhauls, then it will be something to make people prefer Dervishes over Scythewars and Critscythes. And, hopefully, put Dervishes on par with warriors and assassins.

Improvavel · Jun 26, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Nerfing scythes for warriors and assassins isn't going to make dervishes any more powerful or wanted, so I really don't see the point.

On the other hand scythes are wanted.

I would still prefer if the dervish enchantments were more offensive in nature, with multiple effects - on casting, on duration and on ending - and then make mysticism effect required to run said enchantments.

Or remove the Heal from mysticism and give holy damage per rank of mysticism when you cast a dervish enchantment.

Cause lets face it - only in places Dwayna or Mel Avatars shine, do dervishes come close to the efficiency of the Warrior or Assassin,

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 26, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatdownbob

Oh boy, did you come to the wrong forum to bestoll the virtues of "fun"!

Stop having fun and start running GI Joe Pro Daddy Classes with one of the two Gi Joe Pro Daddy builds. If you're not meta, you're just a drain on resources and a source of lag.

I know this, because I read it on Guild Wars Guru, four or five times a week.

Lmao. What kind of believe-whatever-is-in-text person are you?

"I once read grass was blue in a book....it must be true".

Being a meta does not mean you are a waste of anything, this game was for PvP and PvE and you could be casual or hardcore, it's what YOU decide.

/unsigned

The dervish CAN do a lot of unique abilities, and, it gives it multiple fuctions due to the enchantment-battery powers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bna6789

Even still, the fact that AoHM is completely usable by any other profession when wielding a scythe shows that it needs to be altered to being only successfully used by a dervish, unless a dervish will be able to take advantage of sin or warrior weapons by the requirement of "while you are wielding a scythe" be turned into "while you wield a melee weapon" (however that change could be awesome if done!).

And what you're saying is make it so wars+sins only can use AoHM, but only melee-weapons can be effective with it?

Last time I checked....hammers were melee.....or was I drunk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

They have been reworking all kinds of skills, I'm not saying they should redo the whole profession but instead make the Primary do something besides a small bump in health and energy.

like I said change it so that it increases damage output, attack speed, armor or enchantment length something besides the insignificant bump in health and energy.

I think allowing the Derv to go over the 133% attack speed limit so that they swing a scythe at the same attack speed as an ax or sword would greatly improve their ability to use a scythe. It would defiantly make them better than Sins and Wars using a scythe.

Example for every point in Mysticism Dervs gain 1% base attack speed 100% being normal base level the attribute level and skills/cons cap can be stacked to 133..140..150% maximum.

0-10 = 133% max, 11-15 = 140% max, 16+ = 150%max

Trade off would be Derv critters would be swinging Scythes as fast as daggers.

Would also turn Dervs into sewing machines with daggers, swords and axes. Which might throw Pvp off balance.

Love your idea bud, but it was just....PvP cant have PvE-only skills?

Ferminator · Jun 26, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I'll only sign this when I'm told to leave my group because the sin over there can use MY scythe better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinguinius

This would do nothing to help dervishes, and in fact would only serve to hurt them in builds with lower mysticism (e.g. onslaught, EDA, conjure). The reason other professions can wield scythes more effectively than dervishes is that their primary attributes are better. Buff mysticism or its skills if you want dervishes to be more useful, don't lock every dervish into the running the same wounding strike/quick attacks/AoHM/HoF with 14 scythe and 12 mysticism by nerfing AoHM.

I totally agree with this because I also use certain builds that don't use mysticism and I use AoHM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

Mysticism: Whenever an Enchantment ends, all nearby foes take 2 holy damage for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Mysticism.

I can see it now.. a new build called Dervish Bombing consisting of 5 Dervishes and party-wide enchantments.

Oh yeah! This would totally rock. Aura of Displacement+Mystic Sandstorm bombing anyone?

Destro Maniak · Jun 26, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

/signed, make it Critical Strikes. Kinda surprised it hasn't already happened tbh, or at least just make it recharge your "attack skills" or your Assassin skills.

There is no need to be jealus of your skills being used by other professions

Lishy · Jun 26, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

HEY! I HAVE A WONDERFUL IDEA!
Why not buff DERVISHES if they're so damn bad?
The scythe line is crap. If it weren't for the high critical rate of a paragon and assassin, and the strength-based melee attacks of the warrior, scythes would be crap.