Curse

Megas XLR · Jun 25, 2009, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

AoHM, though, that's an interesting one. It's on the bar of everyone who uses a scythe. What if, like Critical Agility and Elemental Lord, it's power scaled depending on the primary attribute? Like, what if it's duration was 8 sec + 1 sec for each rank of mysticism (which at 12 mysticism, would be the same as it is now)?

I believe that this will give power back into the hands on Dervishes and make the profession a bit more unique by allowing Dervishes to specifically pump out holy damage and more comparable scythe damage. Turning Dervishes into a secondary profession is quite sad and some sort of effort to balance out the scythe-use after 6 months of being ignored would be nice.

You could do that or make Critical Agility only work with daggers.

Bob Slydell · Jun 25, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

I have a dervish, haven't had any problems, in fact last time I played him I had lots of fun.

Improvavel · Jun 25, 2009, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

I have a dervish, haven't had any problems, in fact last time I played him I had lots of fun.

That doesn't mean that the Dervish isn't the weakest of the 3 melee professions as in "Whatever the dervish do, the assassin or the warrior using a scythe can do better".

While changing AoHM could be an option, I would rather see some work on the dervish enchantments. Kind of damage at the beginning and/or ending + regular effect. Maybe even change mysticism health gain on enchantment ending to "deals damage whenever an enchantment ends on you" or just a dervish enchantment or whenever you cast an enchantment. The energy gain clause would remain the same.

shoyon456 · Jun 25, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Chrisworld:

The point isn't whether the Dervish is fun or not, so much as as effective as other classes while wielding a scythe in PvE.

We saw the nerf to "Way of the Assassin" last year due to overuse of scythesins and overeffectiveness in PvP. The same should be done to PvE.

And I agree with the OP, that if they want to keep Aura of Holy Might the way it is, they should make Critical Agility only usable with daggers OR make it untied to the Critical Strikes primary.

/signed

beatdownbob · Jun 25, 2009, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

I have a dervish, haven't had any problems, in fact last time I played him I had lots of fun.

Oh boy, did you come to the wrong forum to bestoll the virtues of "fun"!

Stop having fun and start running GI Joe Pro Daddy Classes with one of the two Gi Joe Pro Daddy builds. If you're not meta, you're just a drain on resources and a source of lag.

I know this, because I read it on Guild Wars Guru, four or five times a week.

Spiritz · Jun 25, 2009, 08:27 AM // 08:27

I dont get what this post is about - your moaning about a title skill in PVE .
If your were moaning about it in PvP use then id understand but wheres the problem in Pve ?.
Your not fighting anything but npcs and i dont see them complaining.
Why not also complain about Dervs Avatars and get them so anyone can use them for same length as a derv ?
Far as im aware Crit agaility does attack speed and some nrg regain - sins hit 1 foe with daggers yet dervs hit 3 with a scythe.
Why not then if your gonna change crit agility to suit your needs - lets change the scythe so it only HITS 1 foe instead of 3 max, Could also make the scythe weaker dmg as well .
Somehow i guess dervs wouldnt like that too much.
Its little things in each profession that sets each apart - the core ability for each profession or a title skill thats beneficial to them.
And be fair - sins have to have the worst weapon for dmg going - daggers with a puny 7-17 dmg , bit like using a toothpick lol.
What you may feel is an unbalanced or unfair skill may not actually be - Each profession/skill has its own pro`s an cons but that profession has its own boost or way round it.Dervs can keep up their avatars in pve almost endless etc.
Besides sins have Shadow Sanctuary - wow we get err blinded , bit of armor and a heal - compared to dervs skill ... id prefer the dervs skill.Oh wait anyone can use Shadow sanctuary.
I could go on but its pointless - sounds more like envy rather than using what you have and making the most of it - Btw there are other ways to increase any chrs dmg output

Chieftain Heavyhand · Jun 25, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Why not use Drunken Master to speed up your attacks, or pumpkin pie/rock candy?

Aren't there Dervish skills that speed up attacks?

Oh yes there are 4 of them Heart of Fury, Whirling Charge, Pious Fury, and Onslaught {E} where the sins have Way of the Assassin {E} (daggers only) and Critical Agility a PvE only skill.

So I'm not seeing anything that is stopping you guys from attacking faster.

Aura of Holy might is on everyone who is wielding a scythe build because it is a scythe weapon only skill. It is also on scythe weapon builds in PvE because it is for scythe weapon builds, hence the scythe only call out.

Dervs can increase their scythe attribute to 16 if they want, where the rest can only go to 12. They can also use their IAS skills freeing up PvE only skill spots to use Asura scan, Aura of Holy Might, and "I'm The Strongest!" or "By Ural's Hammer!" Along with their more powerful scythe attacks at 16 attribute points I really don't see where you guys can't out damage the other profesions.

So /unsigned

bna6789 · Jun 25, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Now back to the topic at hand... that it makes no sense why one of the dervishes most damaging skills is completely usable by other classes. Yeah, it would be great to see AoHM changed so that a dervish can use it, while a sin or warrior can't.

Just like dervishes can't take advantage of warrior or sin weaponry like they can since their primary attributes are key (strength adding armor penetration and critical strikes adding a great chance to critical), those professions, in turn, shouldn't be able to take advantage of the dervish line.

Sure its not PvP, so why does it matter? Oh wait, not everyone in guild wars PvP's, so PvE still matters. Sure its not causing a huge influx of golds like keg farming or raptor farming and it may not be directly giving a huge reputation bonus or anything like that.

Even still, the fact that AoHM is completely usable by any other profession when wielding a scythe shows that it needs to be altered to being only successfully used by a dervish, unless a dervish will be able to take advantage of sin or warrior weapons by the requirement of "while you are wielding a scythe" be turned into "while you wield a melee weapon" (however that change could be awesome if done!).

/signed

Revelations · Jun 25, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Everyone is kind of missing the OPs point. Scythe sins and warriors do it better. Warriors have a small amount of armor penetration, plus incredible energy management, attack skills, and armor. They also have a better IAS. Scythesins get insane crits, better energy management, and a ridiculous IAS.

All that a scythe using dervish gets over a warrior/sin using a scythe is Avatars, 13+ scythe mastery, and a free secondary. The first of these two are pretty insignificant benefits, aside from in niche areas or builds. The free secondary does add more damage or utility, but nothing compared to what a warrior/sin using a scythe can pack.

Many other Sunspear/Faction pve skills are linked toward primary attribute, and tbh I really don't see anything game breaking doing it with this one. Dervs will still be mediocre, but will at least be superior with their own weapon to a secondary derv.

Sookie · Jun 25, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I am one for mixing up the professions. It is okay to let a ranger use a spear, a scythe, a sword, a thumping hammer or a staff. My ranger uses her bow and sometimes a staff when called upon to trap or to heal (yeah, she heals and does it quite well). Let people do what they will with mixing and matching because no matter how well my Ranger heals (only in our guild's Ranger-Only runs), she will never be able to out-heal a real monk.

None of this mixing has made any professions extinct.

Look at it this way...sabway didn't make monks extinct...in fact in some HM areas, I would rather have an HB Dunkoro and a ZB or P&H Tahlkora.

MithranArkanere · Jun 25, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

And what about making the multiple targets of the scythe linked to Scythe Mastery much like double hits with daggers?

Rank 0..8: 1 Hit (No extra hits)
Rank 9..12: 2 Hits
Rank 13..15: 3 Hits.
Rank 16..18: 4 Hits.
Rank 19..20: 5 Hits.

That would make Dervishes definitely better with Scythes, since they will be able to use runes...

Oh, well, there's the part of the criticals and the huge maximum damage too... hm...

Megas XLR · Jun 25, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enolena Sedai

I am one for mixing up the professions. It is okay to let a ranger use a spear, a scythe, a sword, a thumping hammer or a staff. My ranger uses her bow and sometimes a staff when called upon to trap or to heal (yeah, she heals and does it quite well). Let people do what they will with mixing and matching because no matter how well my Ranger heals (only in our guild's Ranger-Only runs), she will never be able to out-heal a real monk.

None of this mixing has made any professions extinct.

In turn, it wouldn't limit Sins/Warriors/Rangers to have the ability to use Scythes. They'll still have other great qualities such as higher armor, armor penetration/crit strikes, constant IAS, or loads of blocking.

This would give Dervishes a positive side to using over other classes with holy damage and uniquely being able to boost Scythe damage.

Coast · Jun 25, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

AoHM is fine as it is right now

Revelations · Jun 25, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enolena Sedai

no matter how well my Ranger heals (only in our guild's Ranger-Only runs), she will never be able to out-heal a real monk.

You're still missing the point. Warriors and assassins use a scythe far more effectively than a derv. They also have higher AL and better IAS skills available.

In the comparison you have made your ranger IS in fact outhealing your monk, so something is terribly wrong. I never particularly liked dervs, but even I am happy to admit that they are seriously underpowered compared to the other two frontline professions in PvE - to the extent where they are worse at using their own weapon.

Kendel · Jun 25, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Theres a difference between Critical Agility, a skill which every single profession could use as a perma IAS/AL boost and was in many cases, better than everything else they had available, and Aura which is only ever useful on a Scythe wielder, giving each profession a different advantage.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 25, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

IMO, all PvE skills should be profession based and linked to the primary attribute of said profession.

So, of course I /sign.

zelgadissan · Jun 25, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

So this is a thread about trying to nerf Scythewars and Critscythes, making the Dervish the only class to abuse the scythe?

Okay. Konig couldn't have said it better. /signed

Oh, and before people come and blast Kendel for not knowing what he's talking about, Critical Agility was originally not tied to Critical Strikes.

ChocoboLIVE · Jun 25, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Lol, if nerfed only class for Dervish. Would be funny. As current PvE skill that make one class only. Useless skill. I am looking at you sunspear monk skill. A 60 sec cooldown and a 10 sec appear is no-one will use. But then 1000 skill often are useless when come such typical mass produce.

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 25, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

/notsigned

Because I have an assassin who sometimes uses critical scythe builds with AoHM and I have no dervish character.

Destro Maniak · Jun 25, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

/notsigned

I only play assassin
for obvious reasons

still, if such a thing happens, assassins promise also should be assassin only skill because "elementalists can use assassins promise to spam meteor shower and its simply better than assassin" or "ritualist can use assassins promise to spam spirits and assassin is the worst class to use assassins promise"

your argument doesnt make sense in my opinion

not because those statements are wrong
because my answer would be "so what"

assassins promise wil have a much better usage for other classes
aothm has better usage for assassins or warriors

no need to nerf anything