Curse

reaper with no name · Jul 08, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

One of the selling points of GW used to be that it was a game where you didn't have to grind. Any given lvl 20 character is no more powerful than another of the same profession/build combo.

But titles have royally screwed this up. I'm not talking about God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals or Sweet Tooth, I'm talking about titles like Sunspear, Lightbringer, and Norn. Unlike other titles (which primarily exist as in-game bling; something you can show off), these have genuine in-game effects. If you don't spend a year grinding out your kurzick/luxon title, you're less powerful than someone who has. This goes against the very concepts upon which GW was built.

So, I propose that titles with real in-game effects no longer have an effect on those bonuses. In other words, a person with a maxed out Asura rank will have just as much extra energy in Asura territory as someone at rank 1. Similarly, a max rank pain inverter will be just as effective as a rank 1 pain inverter.

If it turns out that giving everyone max benefits regardless of rank is too much, then guess what? It's too much for the max rank characters too.

The titles themselves wouldn't be affected, so people who like grinding titles and/or showing them off could still do so; they would merely no longer have a game-mechanical advantage in doing so.

But seriously, GW2 is coming. Believe it or not, there are still new players coming, and they're not going to have time to max out their titles the way the rest of us have. Why force them to grind their butts off for weeks or months and do nothing else just to avoid gimping themselves? It's not fair for anyone to have to do that, and it's against the spirit of the game. Let's end the insanity already.

TheodenKing · Jul 08, 2009, 01:54 PM // 13:54

OK... for starters... your titles don't give you an edge in PvP. So in that respect, GW doesn't require grinding like most other popular mmo.

If someone has a higher LB rank than you and can kill margonites faster, that doesn't mean YOU have to grind out LB points. Your heroes don't care what your rank in anything is.

Yes, it can affect how easy it is to get into pugs. But I will say this about pugs: They are not as effective as being in a guild/alliance. Your guildies will treat you a lot better than pugs. And for many titles, you will work on them while having fun with your guidlies, so the grinding is lessened.

When your guildies aren't available, use your heroes as much as possible. Heroes don't discriminate. Actually, a lot of pugs don't discriminate either.

My point is: YOU are the one that cares about your title progress... kind of like how YOU are the only one who cares about your bling. No one else is staring at your armor set. They glance at it maybe, then they are back looking at their own stuff. Same goes for titles.

caballo_oscuro · Jul 08, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

This has been suggested several times before. Linking titles to skills is a way to make a character more powerful of course. But the great thing about GW is that these skills are not necessary to be competitive. You don't require these skills to play the game, you don't need to grind out these titles. They're a reward for people who do and if you want those abilities, you can grind out the titles if you like.

As for people having time to grind out titles, especially new players, guess what? When Guild Wars 2 launches at some stage in the future, GW1 will still be active, and these skills will not apply to GW2. Only the titles will confer benefits...

Tenebrae · Jul 08, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

But seriously, GW2 is coming. Believe it or not, there are still new players coming, and they're not going to have time to max out their titles the way the rest of us have. Why force them to grind their butts off for weeks or months and do nothing else just to avoid gimping themselves? It's not fair for anyone to have to do that, and it's against the spirit of the game. Let's end the insanity already.

You mean to get those to the monument and get somethin in GW2 ?. Anyway is not fair because those titles dont require you to farm with X/X at some place. That title earning is by doing dungeons , misions , clearing zones and filling books and it doesnt take so much time.
That suggestion would be the same like giving a lvl 1 the att points , hp , armor and energy of a lvl 20 because its unfair. Every game has its progression and EOTN progression goes thru those titles so ...

/NOTSIGNED

upier · Jul 08, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Yes.
/signed

Although I'd also support (a) new PvE-only attribute line(s) into which you'd need to dump your attribute points and that would make you PvE skills stronger. Of course you'd be still limited with having 200 attribute points.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jul 08, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

While it would be nice for alt characters just by playing in EotN my Warrior has r8 in everything and the power of PvE skills is unnoticeable weaker than someone who has r10. Plus PvE never took "skill" to beat. It helps but it was never needed.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 08, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Something A-net did to address this issue is to narrow the gap between the power of PvE skills at lower and higher ranks. That way, people who haven't gotten very far along in a title's progression aren't at as much of a disadvantage as they were before that update.

Gift3d · Jul 08, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

force

You aren't forced to do anything. Get it through your head. If working on titles makes your blood vessels pop, then don't work on titles, simple as that.

Also what Kook said, there's not a huge difference. Also, PvE doesn't matter anyways.

cloud4905 · Jul 08, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

One of the selling points of GW used to be that it was a game where you didn't have to grind. Any given lvl 20 character is no more powerful than another of the same profession/build combo.

But titles have royally screwed this up. I'm not talking about God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals or Sweet Tooth, I'm talking about titles like Sunspear, Lightbringer, and Norn. Unlike other titles (which primarily exist as in-game bling; something you can show off), these have genuine in-game effects. If you don't spend a year grinding out your kurzick/luxon title, you're less powerful than someone who has. This goes against the very concepts upon which GW was built.

So, I propose that titles with real in-game effects no longer have an effect on those bonuses. In other words, a person with a maxed out Asura rank will have just as much extra energy in Asura territory as someone at rank 1. Similarly, a max rank pain inverter will be just as effective as a rank 1 pain inverter.

If it turns out that giving everyone max benefits regardless of rank is too much, then guess what? It's too much for the max rank characters too.

The titles themselves wouldn't be affected, so people who like grinding titles and/or showing them off could still do so; they would merely no longer have a game-mechanical advantage in doing so.

But seriously, GW2 is coming. Believe it or not, there are still new players coming, and they're not going to have time to max out their titles the way the rest of us have. Why force them to grind their butts off for weeks or months and do nothing else just to avoid gimping themselves? It's not fair for anyone to have to do that, and it's against the spirit of the game. Let's end the insanity already.

I've been playing a little over 13 months, and have maxed LB/SS on several characters, maxed the EOTN rep titles on my main, and Maxed Kurzick in a few weeks+double weekend of DTSC. None of these titles take THAT long, or are THAT much of a grind. The only ones that take a while are Kurzick/Luxon, and guess what, they should. They are ACCOUNT WIDE titles, and max those skills for all of your characters. Anet even reduced the ranks required for those skills to reach maximum effectiveness a while ago, such as giving a MAX 6 second "Save Yourselves!" to people with rank 10 Kurz/Luxon, which is only 1/2 way to maxing the title, point wise.

If the game didn't reward people for playing the game more or working on things, there would be no point in even playing. These titles give players a way to "level up" their characters past 20 and make them stronger. Just because a game starts with a certain "ideal", such as you have stated, does not mean that it should not change according to circumstances. Sticking to an ideal purely for the sake of stubbornness without looking at the surrounding circumstances is foolish. In this case Anet probably realized that, with Factions, Nightfall AND EotN, it would be smart to give something extra for players to work towards such as this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and there is plenty of time. GW2 doesn't come out until 2010 or 2011 at the earliest according to the new estimate.

/completely not signed

Tomm · Jul 08, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

I'd like that all Sunspear, Lightbringer, Asuran, Norn, Dwarven and Vanguard titles become account based, because i want them maxed on all of my characters (there are great title skills), but it's so boring to farm points with all of my characters, one at the time.

I just want to farm them once, so I can play rest of the game in peace.

Ebony Shadowheart · Jul 08, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

/not signed

There is nothing saying you have to max the titles, even if you want to use the skills. Most of them are still pretty helpful at lower ranks and you can easily get the first several ranks of most of the titles just by playing through the game(s).

You get rep points by vanquishing, doing quests, missions, etc. Heck a good chunk of the pve skills are gotten through a quest which also rewards you rep points!

The only way you wouldn't get a substantial amount of the points simply by playing was if you were being ran everywhere, which is just plain laziness. At which point you don't really deserve them anyway. But that's just my 2 cents.

Shursh · Jul 08, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Although I'd also support (a) new PvE-only attribute line(s) into which you'd need to dump your attribute points and that would make you PvE skills stronger. Of course you'd be still limited with having 200 attribute points.

^ that would actually be really cool, especially if you could then have PvE skill tomes.

MithranArkanere · Jul 08, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Although I would agree to ease the increase of titles the more you max (i.e. requiring 10% less points per rank for each character that has maxed the title in the account), skills were already change to make less important having the max.

What you can't do is just making account wide the plot related ones.

Aljasha · Jul 08, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

i like the idea of linking skills to attributes, tough, i would have done it another way.
in order to decrease the grind of titles and the superiority of pve skills among others, i'd have placed all pve skills in the primary attributes of their respective core professions and add a scaled benefit based on the rank of the title.

this benefit would be major on low attribut levels and minor on a higher level, regardless of the title rank. by choosing wisely you may have 4 high level attributes, nothing really overpowering but you'd feel the effect of a higher title rank.

MagmaRed · Jul 08, 2009, 08:10 PM // 20:10

If they do that, we would then have a forum full of people wanting to get Asuran/Norn/Deldrimor/Monument armor with only rank 1 of a title. And to buy consumables at rank 1 too.... and weapons....

The grind is not required, and it isn't grind if you just play the game. The quests and missions provide more than enough points for the titles, you don't need to 'grind' them at all. And the increase in skill effectiveness decreases as the title rank increase. You will see a larger difference between rank 1 and rank 3 then you will between rank 8 and 10. Simlpy beating the game once will provide you with rank 4 of all the Eye of the North rep titles easily, and at least one should be rank 8. If you don't want to play the game, then you don't need the skills.

I only see this as benefiting people who want to farm/run and not play.

/unsigned

shoyon456 · Jul 08, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36

/SIGNED x100

Title-Linked skills NEVER should have been part of GW, and is proof of the misdirection Anet has gone through.

stale · Jul 09, 2009, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yes.
/signed

Although I'd also support (a) new PvE-only attribute line(s) into which you'd need to dump your attribute points and that would make you PvE skills stronger. Of course you'd be still limited with having 200 attribute points.

/singed, 10000 times over.

if they change anything, they ought to do the above.

talon994 · Jul 09, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Stop bitching about Guild War's PvE. Please its broken we know that, no need to leave us handicapped though. Without the buffs from the titles alot of the game on the PvE side would just die. Besides it's not like everyone play's PvE properly anymore.It's just farm,farm,farm.You even said yourself GW 2 is coming so why bother adding/removing major things like this on GW.As long as Anet fixes XTH and keeps the server up and running 80% of the people won't even give a flying %$@^.

/end rant

glacialphoenix · Jul 09, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

If someone has a higher LB rank than you and can kill margonites faster, that doesn't mean YOU have to grind out LB points. Your heroes don't care what your rank in anything is.

The thing is that your ranks apply to your heroes as well, I believe? So while this wouldn't really matter for something like SS or Kurzick/Lux (which you'd be using for the skills), it would matter if the title added a buff, the way Norn/LB/Asura does - because your heroes would be getting a R8 LB buff if you're R8 LB, but significantly less if you're R1 LB, too.

Kattar · Jul 09, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

PvE skills don't make you any better, they just make it easier to get into groups. Back when Ursan was popular you had to be maxed rank to get into vanquishing groups. Not because you were that much better at max rank, but that's just how PuGs are.

I'd say the OP's problem isn't with skills as much as it is with the idiots using them.