Curse

Ugh · Jul 23, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Once you hit level 20, gaining experience is pretty much useless. All you get are skill points, but those build up fast and then they just start collecting dust (unless you like crafting mass amounts of consets).

And, after level 20, you start capping more elites (5000 exp at level 20), you gain access to quests with 10000+ exp rewards, you unlock HM (+50% exp per kill), and you'll probably end up doing some farming, vqing, etc.

So, shouldn't that exp have a bit of purpose other earning you than some skill points?

Some reward ideas:
-Gamer Points (GW is a game, after all.)
-Small amount of munies (Probably not a great idea as it would just reward farmers with more money.)
-Title for getting a certain amount of exp. Like 5-10mil for max. (meh)
-Further uses for skill points (No idea what, though. o.o)

Martin Alvito · Jul 23, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

You DO get money. That skill point has value on the open market once you transform it into part of a consumables set. You just have to go to the effort to tap that value.

Bob Slydell · Jul 23, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Plus... Skill points for Signet's of Capture.

afmart · Jul 24, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

/not signed dont change main game mechanics

The Air Revenger · Jul 24, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

50 skill points = 1 z-key would be fair

Martin Alvito · Jul 24, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

50 skill points = 1 zkey would be less than the current monetary value of a skill point when you craft a consumables set. No one with a brain would do that, unless they don't have EotN.

Look, the math is simple:

Suppose that dust = 3k/stack, iron = 5k/stack and feathers = 10k/stack. Two stacks of dust, two stacks of iron, a stack of bones (call it 2k) and a stack of feathers yields five cons sets.

6k+10k+2k+10k = 28k. 5 cons sets @ 7k per = 35k. 35k-28k = 7k profit. You spent five skill points to do this. The value of a skill point is therefore given as 12k/5k = 1.4k, or about 1/3 of a zkey. Time price eats some of this up, but not much at the prices I quoted.

Doesn't anyone in this game think any more?

HawkofStorms · Jul 24, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Or... people could just get the z-keys because they don't care about the money, don't like spending time spamming in Kamadon/LA, and don't need OP gimmicks consumables.

Doesn't anybody play the game for fun any more, rather then just cost/benefit anaylize everything?

Ugh · Jul 24, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

/not signed dont change main game mechanics

I don't think any of these would be that difficult to implement. But I could be wrong.

Quote:

50 skill points = 1 z-key would be fair

Making zkeys more available may not be such a good idea; their prices already dropped from tournament points.

Quote:

You DO get money. That skill point has value on the open market once you transform it into part of a consumables set. You just have to go to the effort to tap that value.

Fair enough. I didn't really think monetary benefits were a good idea, just a possible option.

But what about Gamer Points or an Experience title?
The title is kinda iffy but I definately think you should get Gamer Points. The Gamer Title is a massive grind and can only be advanced on holidays. And, anyone willing to play GW enough to get the title with exp would have to be a pretty serious gamer.

Anyone have any other ideas?

MagmaRed · Jul 24, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Anyone have any other ideas?

Do nothing about it. The game was not designed to be a grind fest of leveling for better stats/items/etc. Creating a reward for gaining XP only encourages people to stop playing and start farming. And 5-10 million for a max title is ludicrous. I have 10 PvE characters (1 of each class), and 3 of them have over 10 million, 2 have over 5 million, the other 5 have between 1 million and 3 million. Yes, I play a lot, but so do farmers and bots.

If you don't need more skills or elites, and don't need or want consumables, then you are playing for fun. If you don't want to play for fun, why play at all? If you are playing PvP and worried about XP gain, you're doing something wrong.

Ugh · Jul 24, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Do nothing about it. The game was not designed to be a grind fest of leveling for better stats/items/etc. Creating a reward for gaining XP only encourages people to stop playing and start farming. And 5-10 million for a max title is ludicrous. I have 10 PvE characters (1 of each class), and 3 of them have over 10 million, 2 have over 5 million, the other 5 have between 1 million and 3 million. Yes, I play a lot, but so do farmers and bots.

If you don't need more skills or elites, and don't need or want consumables, then you are playing for fun. If you don't want to play for fun, why play at all? If you are playing PvP and worried about XP gain, you're doing something wrong.

I was kinda hoping that with a title based around exp, people would actually do those side quests with only exp rewards. Like the quests from Glint in Droks that give 20k exp each. Not really sure what a good cap would be, my main only has about 3.5 mil so... :\

And something definately needs to be done about the Gamer title. Titles were built around grind but that title's just ridiculous. There are still unconfirmed tiers on the wiki so I'm assuming no one actually has it max yet. And it takes 90000 points to get to (10) which is 9000 wins in Snowball arena. I know it's supposed to be difficult, but this is overkill.

draxynnic · Jul 24, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

One thing I'd like to see is an option to be able to buy skills purely off skill points rather than skill points and gold. Possibly, given Martin's analysis and a premium for not spending time spamming WTS, the ability to buy a skill for 2 skill points. (This would set the value of a skill point at one platinum, 400g less than Martin's estimated 1.4k.)

This would probably just postpone the problem, but it does mean people can avoid a situation where they have hundreds of skill points and plenty of skills they'd like to buy, but don't have the platinum to pay for them.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 24, 2009, 06:16 AM // 06:16

More uses for skill points is what we need. Creating a balance between skill points and money required when buying skills is a common/popular suggestion (there a million threads on it, so I won't elaborate).

laksa and curry · Jul 24, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

No offence TS but that is a bad idea.

GW should remain the way it is IMO

Martin Alvito · Jul 24, 2009, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Or... people could just get the z-keys because they don't care about the money, don't like spending time spamming in Kamadon/LA, and don't need OP gimmicks consumables.

So what you're saying is that you'd rather get 1 zkey for a single click, rather than spend ten to twenty minutes of your time turning that 1 zkey into 17 or 18 zkeys? That's a pretty efficient farm right there that you've passed up. Much better than anything else in the entire run of Guild Wars.

You'd be hard pressed indeed to find a power trader that can increase their initial investment by a factor of seventeen in twenty minutes.

Yet you'd still be unwilling to take advantage of this? No use for sixteen or seventeen zkeys? Don't play XTH? Really?

Based on the number of people that play XTH, I'm guessing that you're in the minority. The OP's suggestion wouldn't really be harmful at the end of the day, except to those that voluntarily chose to throw their money away. It'd be needless work for the Live Team, and that's the real reason to oppose it. There's no reason to waste their time on a feature that rational players would never use.

zwei2stein · Jul 24, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Just let me exchange 1 sp for 10 copper zcoins and i'll be happy picking my own reward.

Arduin · Jul 24, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

So what you're saying is that you'd rather get 1 zkey for a single click, rather than spend ten to twenty minutes of your time turning that 1 zkey into 17 or 18 zkeys? That's a pretty efficient farm right there that you've passed up. Much better than anything else in the entire run of Guild Wars.

You'd be hard pressed indeed to find a power trader that can increase their initial investment by a factor of seventeen in twenty minutes.

Yet you'd still be unwilling to take advantage of this? No use for sixteen or seventeen zkeys? Don't play XTH? Really?

I'm at a point in Guild Wars I simply don't care about money, and because of that, even 20 minutes to make some money instead of 'playing' the game is too much for me.

So yes, I'd rather walk over to the skill points to Zkeys converter, than spending more time getting materials for crafting consumables, and finding some buyers. Why? Because it is free money without too much hassle, just like XTH.

Anyways, I don't think Skillpoints needs another use. As said, some people already have 1000+ of them, and I still like to think this game is not about grinding.

TheManowar · Jul 24, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Look, the math is simple: (...) The value of a skill point is therefore given as 12k/5k = 1.4k, or about 1/3 of a zkey. Time price eats some of this up, but not much at the prices I quoted.

Doesn't anyone in this game think any more?

You meant 7k/5 = 1.4k maybe? The math is simple indeed, but it seems not to be so for everyone (take it easy, i'm joking

)

Nereyda Shoaal · Jul 24, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Since some people claim skill points are worth something on the market I'm ready to sell 2000 of them at a discount price of 1mil. I might have 3000 (on all chars)... I dunno because I don't care. Stacking something which I can't use

Any buyer?

Reverend Dr · Jul 24, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

Any buyer?

plenty of buyers for consumables

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 24, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

do something to it other than

"my char has 40 mil exp, im 1337!"
"mine has 1 mil exp."
"you're so newb!"

maybe make z-keys CUSTOMIZED?!

O.o