Curse

Shriketalon · Jul 31, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

In the vein of the Rit/Para update, this is a small set of suggestions to buff or change underused portions of PvE. In particular, I'm talking about the Ranger's nature spirits and the assassin's shadow stepping.

This might get a bit long. So here's a short version for anyone who wants it.

-Improve targeting and decrease recharge on shadow stepping.

-Change the functions of several elite nature rituals to make them more friendly towards teams and mission setup.

As always, exact numbers may vary a bit. I'm no king of balance, so constructive criticism is appreciated.

First, Assassins!

Disregarding a certain elite skill which I would rather appreciate we avoid sidetracking the thread with, assassin's have some particular PvE problems. For the moment, though, let's talk merely about mobility. Shadowstepping is very potent in PvP where positioning is king, and swift repositioning to attack the backline or exit the fray can be quite potent. Not so in PvE, where you can walk right around the heavy hitters to bash the healer over the head.

As a result, a lot of the normal safeguards for these skills don't quite apply. Therefore, I suggest the following...

Death's Charge- decrease recharge to 15 seconds.
Death's Return- decrease recharge to 10 seconds.
Return- decrease recharge to 10 seconds.
Dark Prison- decrease recharge to 15 seconds
Shadow Fang- decrease recharge to 25 seconds
Shadow Prison- decrease recharge to 15 seconds
Shadow Walk: remove the 1 second of disabled attack skills.

General cuts to the recharge time should help them be more worthwhile, allowing the assassin to move around more. A few could use changes for targeting...

Aura of Displacement- change function to: Shadow Step to target. End effect: return to your original location. Decrease recharge to 10 seconds. Combines Shadow Meld with Aura, giving you an all around "Go there, come back" skill for ally and enemy alike.

Spirit Walk: change function to "Shadow Step to target." Decrease recharge to 5 seconds. Like the Aura buff, this makes Spirit Walk the quintessential Shadow Step. In its current state, it is useless, but this would allow you to have the perfect, elegant, and simple "I want to go there" skill.

And Recall is doing just fine.

By combining Aura and Shadow Meld's enemy/ally targeting, we get a free elite, as well as another currently unused shadow step Swap. Swap is currently ridiculously situational, you have to have a minion and you have to want to switch places with it. On the whole, not worth a slot.

So instead, we give the two free skills a bit more utility. Since this is a bit more freeform, here are a few options.

#1 Sudden Strike

Swap- Shadow step to target foe and deal X damage/effect/whatever. Counts as a lead attack.
Shadow Meld- Shadow step to target foe and deal X damage/effect/whatever. Counts as an offhand attack.

Keeping them in the shadow stepping line of abilities, these would merge effects to let you get that attack chain into motion faster. There are already plenty of shortcuts, mixing shadowstepping and hexing, or deadly arts skills. This would simply combine mobility and the initial part of the chain for bar compression.

Or if we wanted something more interesting...

#2 Summon Shadows. Basically a fun take on Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support.

Swap- Move to Shadow Arts. Change function to: You shadow step to a nearby location directly away from your target and summon a level 1...15...20 Shadow Assassin at your previous location. The Shadow Assassin lasts 3...7...10 seconds and has Unsuspecting Strike, Lotus Strike, and Critical Strike. A summoning twist on Viper's Defense, leaving a body blocker behind you to take the heat.
Shadow Meld- Move to Shadow Arts. Summon two level 1...15...20 Shadow Assassins that have Golden Fox Strike, Fox Fangs, and Nine Tail Strike. These summoned Assassins Shadow Step to target foe. Lasts 5...12...15 seconds.

In the same vein as Celestial Strike, getting a few friends to pile on the target. Using the Assassin graphics from the Bonus Mission Pack's Tengu Accords is recommended, but anything decent would do. Does take away slightly from the shadow stepping side of life, but hopefully the nifty effects would be enough. As usual, balance should be considered; levels, numbers of assassins for Meld, their skills, and how long they last may vary.

All in all, the aim is to allow assassins more mobility, getting them zipping around the PvE battlefield as they were meant to be. Bar compression and better targeting should make these skills more worthwhile, and the reduced recharge would mean they are more than a single use per battle set of abilities.

Next: Ranger's Nature Rituals. Has little to do with shadow stepping, sorry, but I liked the two-classes-update style.

Mostly, they stink. At least the elites do. Famine sees play due to farming purposes, but the rest of them aren't worth the precious golden slot. They have poor effects, they don't play nicely with teams, and there is no point in trying to build a party around them despite their massive area.

So, here are a few changes. I've posted this section before in another thread, but am revising it here. Thematically, the elites get shifted around a bit. I liked the Equinox flavor, as well as the Winter spirit, and the little not on the wiki about how Conflagration used to be called Summer got me thinking. So, here goes.

Separating the spirits into the four main types that show up, purely in terms of their names: winds, seasons, terrain, and the cycle of life and death.

The Four Winds (Quickening Zephyr, Energizing Wind, Favorable Winds, Roaring Winds) are mostly alright. I would recommend, however...

Favorable Winds: change to effect spears and projectile spells. Just a touch of help for anyone who loves fireball, and lets the para and the ranger get along well.

Roaring Winds: Overall, does not seem to see much use. Hypothetically, would this be more interesting if it were a counter to favorable winds, making projectiles less accurate and increasing the likelihood of them straying from the target? Would seem like the ranger shooting himself in the foot, but would make an interesting counter for when rangers bring other weaponry and want to deflect enemy fire.

Terrain Spirits (Brambles, Frozen Soil, Muddy Terrain, and Quicksand)

Brambles- Kind of pointless. So, here are a few function suggestions.

1) Inflicts bleeding on anything using a speed boost and over half health. Prevents the "spirit killing from far away" problem that could result if there is no health limit, punishes anything that tries to catch you. Still too situational, though, which is the entire problem.
2) Any creature that is over half health(optional) and running (moving at full normal speed or higher.) takes light damage/bleeding. Why running? because creatures out of the aggro range usually walk, ergo you can't use it as a free drop-and-watch-the-monsters-cry ability. Would be nefarious when teamed up with good pulling, but that's all part of being a ranger.
3) Increase knockdown duration as well as bleeding. More in keeping with its current effect, and allows much better synergy with the rest of the party. Knock 'em down, the brambles snare them, then they bleed coming back up. Simple, elegant.

Frozen Soil- is gold. Or silver. Regardless, is perfectly fine and lovely. Keep as is.

Muddy Terrain- Decent, I suppose. Offhand, the only interesting buff I can think of would be a Storm Djinn style energy loss while in motion, but that's more likely to annoy the party than anything else. Ergo, keep as is.

And finally, Quicksand- Currently just not up to snuff. Monsters generally don't give a damn about energy, and in HM they laugh at the mere mention of it. Therefore, the skill itself doesn't really have any point. Function changes as follows:

1) Keep in line with the current style, add a speed reduction of 15% just like the Quicksand environmental effect from Nomad's Isle. Would be reasonably useful for any defensive setup, especially the various challenge missions that involve defending versus waves.

2) Give it an effect like icy terrain; anything that stops moving "sinks in the quicksand" and takes a massive speed penalty until it starts moving for a while again.

3) Give it a punishing effect for anything standing still. Energy loss, a condition, or what have you, something that the party can prepare for, but turns a confrontation into a slippery slope, both sides being drained as each fights to finish the other faster.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure what to do with it. At present, it simply isn't worth the time and the elite slot, so any suggestion would be considered.

The Seasons. Winter you know, Summer existed before. Equinox, aka the halfway points in spring and autumn between the solstices, already exists. The idea is to take a few of the elites and rename them, grouping them together so they work well. To start...

Conflagration becomes Summer again. Change function to: Converts physical damage to fire damage for creatures in range. Does not affect spirits. You might recognize this effect already. Meanwhile, its big brother...
Greater Conflagration becomes Summer Solstice. Change function to: Fire damage causes burning for 1-3 seconds for creatures in range. Does not affect spirits.

Offensive and brutal. Together, they let massive amounts of degeneration fly. Of course, a party could take only the Greater version and have an edge, but would require a great deal more planning to do so. Then again, it would be like bringing Symbiosis into an area where the enemies don't use many enchantments; good preparation is part of the game.

Predatory Season becomes Autumn. No other change, cosmetic to fit with theme.
Infuriating Heat becomes Autumn Equinox. Change function to: Doubles adrenaline gain and creatures in range gain 1 energy whenever they hit with an attack.

For the melee types. The autumn setup would allow the frontliners, the ranger, and the paragon to flourish over their spellcasting counterparts. Also a very offensive style.

Winter stays Winter. Hooray!
Equinox becomes Winter Solstice. Change function to: Cold damage causes weakness for 1-3 seconds for creatures in range. Does not affect spirits.

More for the caster side of life. As an alternative, Winter Solstice could cause a slowing effect to keep with the icy theme.

Fertile Season becomes Spring. No other change, cosmetic to fit with theme.
Laceration becomes Spring Equinox. Change function to one of the following. A bit more tricky, needs something more defensive. Options include...
1) All healing is increased within the area.
2) Everything in the area receives a small amount of healing every second.
3) Enchantments last longer, hexes end soon.

The idea is to create a defensive setup, useful for missions and challenges that involve protecting NPCs and staying alive, rather than killing the opponent. In case you are wondering, should any of this renaming occur, Laceration would fit better as Spring Equinox simply due to Wardens. If Equinox was changed, it would mean wardens ran around echovald casting Winter Solstice. Which would be silly.

The Cycle. (aka the rest lumped together. Everything from tranquility to pestilence.) Just a few quick changes here and there.

Toxicity- Change function to: Poisoned or Diseased creatures within range take (small amount of damage) per second. Like Seeping Wound and its friends, this would let you keep using degeneration without worrying about the ten pip mark.

Edge of Extinction: just fine.

Famine sees use in farm builds, good enough reason to keep it the same.

Pestilence: expand to range to nearby, allowing better positioning of the effect. Alternately, give it other effects- 1) Corpses within range inflict disease on anything adjacent, 2) All diseased creatures are also weakened, 3) All diseased creatures receive less benefit from healing. Personally, I'm fond of the latter two, as it helps coordinate strategies in the party.

Primal Echoes: for fun, this skill could also have a slight reduction of energy costs for shouts, chants, and echoes. Might not be the most balanced, though.

Winnowing: make the damage dependent upon Wilderness Survival level.

Overall, hopefully these sorts of changes should help ranger spirits actually benefit the team. Ideally, they should play a fairly decent role in deciding the overall team setup, and the elites should be a core component of a good group build.

Anyway, for all those who read through it, that's my lump sum of ideas on those two fronts. What do you think?

Are any of them decent?

Are there skills that you actually think are currently useful, and need no change?

Do you have better ideas for functional changes?

Share your thoughts.

king_trouble · Jul 31, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

I smell balancing issues with most of these changes

upier · Jul 31, 2009, 07:05 AM // 07:05

PvE.
Shadowstepping:
1. Remove all disable effects. If there are any.
2. Elite shadowsteps - recharge 5.
3. Normal shadowsteps - recharge 10.

Nature Rituals:
1. Activation time - 1 sec.
2. Recharge - 10 secs.

Hermos · Jul 31, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

I like these changes, actually, especially the Assassin ones.

I don't know; I don't really see any damaging consequences.

/signed

Spider of the UW · Jul 31, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

I agree with the shadow stepping. Asins are a class that is suppose to be able to move armoudn the battle field quickly.... In fact shadow step is pretty much their own unique quality. And yet.. it is not use very often used.. and can not be used more than once per battle really with the long recharge time. as the first shadow step is the get in.. after that....one recharge.....

M @ T · Jul 31, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Hell NAH on Death's Charge! That way perma sins can stay alive by just spamming it.

Tenebrae · Jul 31, 2009, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

PvE.
Shadowstepping:
1. Remove all disable effects. If there are any.
2. Elite shadowsteps - recharge 5.
3. Normal shadowsteps - recharge 10.

Nature Rituals:
1. Activation time - 1 sec.
2. Recharge - 10 secs.

Totally agree , still casting range and foe doesnt lose target so , good changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M @ T

Hell NAH on Death's Charge! That way perma sins can stay alive by just spamming it.

Yeah because we all know that permas have 80 energy and 6 pips regen to spam it while keeping shadow form and using skills to kill something .....
.... oh wait

Faure · Jul 31, 2009, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

PvE.
Shadowstepping:
1. Remove all disable effects. If there are any.
2. Elite shadowsteps - recharge 5.
3. Normal shadowsteps - recharge 10.

Nature Rituals:
1. Activation time - 1 sec.
2. Recharge - 10 secs.

This.

Shadowstepping in PvP is indeed a convinient thing that needs balance. But in PvE it's mostly a funny trick you add. A split would be better, so the PvE skills have some use, or at least don't spoil the fun of shadowstepping.

Masmar · Jul 31, 2009, 11:27 AM // 11:27

I like the look of these, dont see too many issues that couldnt be fixed with just a little tinkering

Shayne Hawke · Jul 31, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

This sounds like a proper boost to unappreciated skills that won't create many problems and may let some skills see more light of day. Some of your numbers could need adjustment, but I like your ideas as a whole.

Ugh · Jul 31, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

The uselessness of Nature Rituals has been bugging me for a long time; they take up 25 skills and only like 5 of them are useful.

I really like your changes, though. But, in addition to the name and effect changes, I think there should also be a significant reduction in casting and recharge times (for pve only, ofc). Mabye cut recharges in half and subtract 2 seconds from the casting times? So, all the elite rituals would have a 1 second casting time, and the non-elite would have a 3 second casting time. Better and faster rituals might also help rangers to see more play in high-end PvE.

MagmaRed · Jul 31, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21

A decrease in recharge times for shadow steps I can see (for PvE only), but nothing else. Combining Shadow Meld and Aura of Displacement is pointless... it just makes one of the 2 worthless, and require a complete new function. The renaming and complete overhaul of the Nature Rituals will never happen, and most of them don't need a change. True, some of them are rarely used, but not EVERY skill in the game needs to be used regularly. And some of those skills do have uses outside of farming even in PvE, but it does require a team to know how to use them, which means no PUG.

Ariena Najea · Jul 31, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

This sounds like a proper boost to unappreciated skills that won't create many problems and may let some skills see more light of day. Some of your numbers could need adjustment, but I like your ideas as a whole.

Well said.

Excellent idea (some need some good old balancing) and you clearly thought this one out. Although I like your proposed changes to the Ranger Spirits, renaming elites at this point is probably a bad idea, particularly if these skills are undergoing a PvE/PvP split. Still, great concepts!

trankle · Jul 31, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Looks nice.

I wouldn't mind a PvE version of a shadowstep that looked something like:

"Name": 5e 1/4c 2r
Shadowstep to target foe. Sacrifice 10% health.

It would keep the user highly mobile, but restrained by the cost in sacrifice.

Abedeus · Jul 31, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I really, really, REALLY want Nature Rituals update. It still infuriates me that Ritualist spirits cast in 1 second TOPS, and every single Nature Ritual is 3-5 seconds, making them USELESS.

Except for Hard Mode mobs...

MithranArkanere · Aug 04, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I only like the name changes, there can't be winter without the other seasons, XD.

M @ T · Aug 05, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yeah because we all know that permas have 80 energy and 6 pips regen to spam it while keeping shadow form and using skills to kill something .....
.... oh wait

So now not only make them lolICanTankEverything and kill them too, but also give them a chance to selfheal on demand for 5 energy. gg.

Elitezz · Aug 05, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17

lol..Shadowstepping in pve seems ..silly though i agree with bringing those dead skills back out..but maybe in a few different ways. Name changes so good :P Yeah. I sign xD . We really need dead skills like that out of those useless states

Skye Marin · Aug 05, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Wouldn't it be easier to just improve the PvE-only shadowsteps, instead of splitting a dozen skills? I understand it takes a fair bit of resources to split a skill. Something like:

Ebon Escape - If target is a foe, causes cripple to adjacent foe before you step, and target foe. If target is an other ally, heal yourself and them for 100..180 health.

Sneak Attack - Shadow step to target foe. If attacking, they are blinded for 5..8 seconds. If casting a spell, they are interrupted, and if moving, they are knocked down. This counts as a lead attack.