Curse

Just.nl · Sep 16, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

I dont see a problem in AP. If you find AP a problem, there are way more skills that are a problem. You can spam Dragon Slash also, Shadow Form = Needed in every SC.

The could better nerf Shadow Form in place of AP. I dont see a problem in AP. I use it sometimes on my mesmer. And it is usefull..

/Notsigned

Lakdav · Sep 16, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Until today i saw AP overpowered, but this thread pointed out that it is indeed the PvE skills that are too powerful. I rarely use them, and if i do, use only the skills that suits my class (Mesmer-asura).

In a sense the AP-YMLAD!-FH!-assa support combo is like ursan was. Every1 can pick it with enough title-grind and an assa secondary, and it needs little skill in timing.
It is NOT that bad, but it looks like its little brother.

So far i only see it in forums as a must-have/try playstyle, haven't see it in pugs as a must-have yet(not like SF), so its not that much of a concern. Annoying when you get a (pick class here) only to find out he is not using 2 skills from his primary, but as long as it is not forced on pugs, i'm not complaining.

mathiastemplar · Sep 16, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

doesn't need a fix.
sick of "balance this" threads lol...

IronSheik · Sep 16, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Nerf Finish Him, Ranged Instant Death at 50% =Baed, even for PvE.

turbo234 · Sep 16, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

meh in conjunction with discord and ymlad its pretty powerful but even if this was nerfed there are plenty of other things to take its place.
at best i would say make a pve split with 10 second recharge without it recharging itself.
it's an idea, but i don't see this ever happening as i'm sure AP is the least of anet's worries right now.

BlackSephir · Sep 16, 2009, 09:21 AM // 09:21

I like how AP is too strong now, after retarded pve skills have been introduced.
Hey, that got me thinking, maybe it's the pve skills that should be nerfed?

Tenebrae · Sep 16, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Why ppl try to nerf an entire skill when they just wanna nerf some build/team config ?. If you really wanna nerf all uses of skill then no , notsigned , is not op. If you wanna nerf an specific use then make a change like for example it gives energy only for each skill recharge ( 0....2 ....3 ) or something like that .

MagmaRed · Sep 16, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

AP is not a problem. Yes, it allows for some powerful builds to exist, but none of them are imbalanced (in my opinion). And hex removal will ruin it instantly. Try using it in Factions when there are Expel Hexes Mesmers around, or in Eye of the North where there are Monks with Divert Hexes. And unless you supply a lot of attribute points to Deadly Arts, you have to make sure the target dies fast. Timing is key, but so is watching for hex removal.

If you want to 'fix' a skill, pick one that is imbalanced.

draxynnic · Sep 16, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

As has already been said:

1) SF is a much bigger problem.

2) It's not AP that's the problem so much as the skills used with it (mainly PvE skills, but part of its prevalence comes because it also supercharges Mark of Pain and, to a lesser extent, earth nukers).

3) If AP gets nerfed, it'd better be preceded by a few good buffs for Mesmers.

FireWhale · Sep 16, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

AP is a problem because pretty much any prof can run it and wreck with it. It's like, as someone said, Ursan's little sibling.

Anon-e-mouse · Sep 16, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Please stop trying to dictate to OTHER players how they should play the game, and leave it upto Anet. QQing about every fecking skill in the game YOU percieve as OP'd is not helpful, constructive or needed. Anet knows which skills are being abused and will act if they need to. Until they do that please STFU.

/notsigned in any way shape or form.

Targren · Sep 16, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

To paraphrase...

"The nerf bat is the last resort of the intellectually lacking"

/notsigned

Shasgaliel · Sep 16, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Please stop trying to dictate to OTHER players how they should play the game, and leave it upto Anet. QQing about every fecking skill in the game YOU percieve as OP'd is not helpful, constructive or needed. Anet knows which skills are being abused and will act if they need to. Until they do that please STFU.

/notsigned in any way shape or form.

Anet is too slow in reactions but indeed I would also prefer to leave it up to them instead of seeing those "balancing" threads popping up every day.

I do not use AP on any of my characters and heroes. I do not mind it being used by anyone else. /notsigned

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 16, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

The "logic" being thrown around in this thread is astounding. I know thinking is hard... but for many of you it seems like the equivalent of a quadriplegic trying to light a cigarette.

1) There are more OP skills so nerf them first: How about nerf them all instead of taking ages to get around to them and causing an imbalanced game experience for literally years at a time?

2) AP is only OP because it allows the use of other OP skills more often: Well sort of. AP is OP because of that AND because it makes the recharge of every skill on your bar effectively 10 secs or less, while ALSO giving you energy to use them at a minimal cost with virtually no downside. Even without using it with PvE only skills, there are plenty of powerful skills that are only balanced by a long recharge, which AP effectively ignores, destroying the balance of other skills.

3) AP has a counter in Hex-removal so its not OP: SF has counters too, they're easy enough to get around. Hex removal isn't all that prevalent in many places, and a halfway decent player can use a cover hex or 2, especially with a decent investment in deadly arts.

4) By asking for a nerf you're dictating to others how the game should be played: No. What a worthless argument... its been used to defend Ursan, SF. CoP and virtually everything else that deserved a nerf. Its not logic, more than it is opinion, and no one with half a brain finds it convincing. Striving for balance is part of a drive to make a great game more fun by making people actually play it the way it was intended, through balanced skillful play.

Anon-e-mouse · Sep 16, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

The "logic" being thrown around in this thread is astounding. I know thinking is hard... but for many of you it seems like the equivalent of a quadriplegic trying to lite a cigarette.

Almost on a par with the 'logic' that for the most part how other people would like to play their game IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

If I wanted to kill raptors from now until GW 3 came out that's entirely upto me if I wanted to do that.

Asking Anet to nerf raptors because they're to easy to kill, *IS* trying to dictate to other players how and what they should be doing in the game. No sugar coating, you are DIRECTLY trying to get the way they play the game changed because YOU percieve it to be a problem.

Leave it to Anet to decide what they think is a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

4) By asking for a nerf you're dictating to others how the game should be played: No.

Yes you are. Saying no, does not make it less true than it is. YOU think it's a problem, and YOU want Anet to change it.. That's YOU dictating how YOU think other people should play THEIR game. Saying you're not is an outright lie both to yourself, and everyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

What a worthless argument... its been used to defend Ursan, SF. CoP and virtually everything else that deserved a nerf.

It's not your job to decide what needs a nerf and what doesn't, that's Anet's job. Please leave it to Anet, they'll act if they perceive it to be a problem.

And for the record, I don't currently use AP, nor have I ever used AP in the past. I'm just fed up of every fecker under the sun telling me how I should or shouldn't be playing GW's. I play GW's my own way tyvm, and you should be playing your own way. Not trying to change what other people are doing.

Tenebrae · Sep 16, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

It's not your job to decide what needs a nerf and what doesn't, that's Anet's job. Please leave it to Anet, they'll act if they perceive it to be a problem.

And for the record, I don't currently use AP, nor have I ever used AP in the past. I'm just fed up of every fecker under the sun telling me how I should or shouldn't be playing GW's. I play GW's my own way tyvm, and you should be playing your own way. Not trying to change what other people are doing.

Did you notice that this forum is for suggestions ? if you dont like ppl suggestions is fine and you can argue about that but you CANT tell ppl what to do , what to suggest to add ingame , or not asking for a change/nerf of a skill . If you dont like suggestions at all you shouldnt be reading this section at all . Give reasons to be against this nerf , that "no , you cant tell me how to play GW" doesnt work here , is not a valid argument.

FoxBat · Sep 16, 2009, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Make it recharge assassin skills only, very simple.
That limits it to the stupid but fun spike-chain builds in PvE.

The Drunkard · Sep 16, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

As previously mentioned, AP isn't the problem. It's the stupidly overpowered PvE skills that it fuels that is the problem. Making it not work with PvE skills is really all you need to do with it.

Yup.

Even if AP was nerfed, people can still use MoR(mesmers) or air of superiority.

/signed-but-doubt-it-would happen

Chocobo1 · Sep 17, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

The "logic" being thrown around in this thread is astounding. I know thinking is hard... but for many of you it seems like the equivalent of a quadriplegic trying to light a cigarette.

2) AP is only OP because it allows the use of other OP skills more often: Well sort of. AP is OP because of that AND because it makes the recharge of every skill on your bar effectively 10 secs or less, while ALSO giving you energy to use them at a minimal cost with virtually no downside. Even without using it with PvE only skills, there are plenty of powerful skills that are only balanced by a long recharge, which AP effectively ignores, destroying the balance of other skills.

3) AP has a counter in Hex-removal so its not OP: SF has counters too, they're easy enough to get around. Hex removal isn't all that prevalent in many places, and a halfway decent player can use a cover hex or 2, especially with a decent investment in deadly arts.

Without the PvE skills being recharged, AP would see a lot less use. The problem is that AP is balanced because it takes up an elite slot for negating recharge. That means you have no actual elite skill that contributes, you just spam your non-elite skills more often. PvE skills are often on par with elites, and in some cases much greater. So you effectively are able to spam 3 incredible skills with no recharge. So the problem is the PvE skills really.

Did you really compare SF to AP? Hex Removal is FAR more common than enchant removal that can get through SF. Unless your farming the early parts of the game, you will run into hex removal. And AI is incredibly fast to react to any hexes. I think you said at one point that you can bring a junk hex to make them waste there hex removal. The problem is, the group will more than likely have 3-4 sources of Hex Removal, and you are now wasting a skill slot for a hex you hope they remove. In general, if they have hex removal you have to put AP on them the second before they die (Kind of a pain considering in PvE stuff just explodes) or hope they don't remove it.

kazjun · Sep 17, 2009, 02:20 AM // 02:20

/notsigned

Don't really see a problem with this. Did the kournans team up with the margos and raptors to form a union to complain about being killed in pve? I may have seen people being turned away for not having ursan (though to be fair they were going ursanway so trying to join without ursan was wtf?) but I've never seen anyone say AP only. Or even request you bring AP. Ever.

Most of the time its just used for discord priming with H/H anyways, and frankly thats just to make things a bit neater. A well set up H/H discord team should roll pve while you go afk and chat with guildies anyway, so AP is hardly essential. Sure, its amusing the first time or two to try and see how many EV sins you can have going at once but frankly, its not all that. My necro can't even be bothered bringing it and I usually run 5 necros in the party (me, 3x N/ heroes, eve, two hench monks and a mes hench). As for being OPed, going spirit spam is far more OPed and easy to run.