Curse

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 15, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Assassin's promise.

We all love it. Most of us use it. If we were really honest with ourselves, we'd all admit that its way over-powered. Free skill recharge (for ALL skills, including itself) PLUS extra energy just for killing a target? All this on a skill that ANY profession can use effectively? Shenanigans.

So, in my opinion, just like SF, its time has come. Why? Not because it breaks the game from farming and SCs like SF, it doesn't really. Just the plain simple reason that it makes the game experience unbalanced and because it makes people think everything else sucks in comparison. Whenever you have a skill where pretty much everythign sucks by comparison, its is by definition unbalance and over-powered.

So, what are some possible nerfs? Well, you could compare it to reaper's mark, the next closest skill in terms of similar effect. Reaper's Mark uses the Necros primary attribute and doesn't recharge skills. So there's a possible option for making it more balanced. Another is to make it not recharge itself. Yet another is to reduce the duration of it to make it harder to use. Any others?

To be honest I mostly expect people to respond with "OMGNOOBGTFO" (paraphrasing of course) but perhaps the GWG community will refrain from being dumb-GO RED ENGINEs for once and realize that the game becomes more fun for all player when its well balanced. What's that you say? You doubt it? Yeah me too. Anyway, flame/discuss/QQ/piss and moan away.

Chocobo1 · Sep 16, 2009, 12:07 AM // 00:07

There is so much that needs fixing in PvE, why bother with this? Sure it's pretty damn strong, but I'm not really worried about it. To me it kinda boils down like this:

Stupidly insane Tier: Shadow Form
Overpowered Tier: AP, RoJ (It's still pretty insane), Most PvE Skills, more stuff that I cbf listing
Good Tier: Spiteful Spirit, Savanah Heat, (stuff like this that isn't woamg overpowered but is still useful)
Meh Tier: Everything else.

I'm too tired to talk about it, but the Overpowered Tier would have a lot more skills if I could be bothered listing it, the Meh Tier would be filled with junk and the Good Tier would have a few staple skills. The point is, there are so few decently balanced skills that hitting one overpowered skill won't really make an impact unless they decide to do a huge change to PvE there is no point in changing these skills.

dasmitchies · Sep 16, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

AP isn't use in speedclears and farming just as you said. So how does it unbalance the game? NO NERFbat required

branamanp · Sep 16, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

hex removal can make make your whole bar useless if it is based on AP
/notsigned

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 16, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

There is so much that needs fixing in PvE, why bother with this? Sure it's pretty damn strong, but I'm not really worried about it. To me it kinda boils down like this:

Stupidly insane Tier: Shadow Form
Overpowered Tier: AP, RoJ (It's still pretty insane), Most PvE Skills, more stuff that I cbf listing
Good Tier: Spiteful Spirit, Savanah Heat, (stuff like this that isn't woamg overpowered but is still useful)
Meh Tier: Everything else.

I'm too tired to talk about it, but the Overpowered Tier would have a lot more skills if I could be bothered listing it, the Meh Tier would be filled with junk and the Good Tier would have a few staple skills. The point is, there are so few decently balanced skills that hitting one overpowered skill won't really make an impact unless they decide to do a huge change to PvE there is no point in changing these skills.

I was hoping someone would make this point. Why not make another thread for each OP skill rather than say, "there are plenty of OP unbalanced skills so let's ignore them all." The live team has shown a few things to us players recently... one of which is that they're basically too busy to focus much on skill balance, even in PvP. Why not help em out a little by listing and discussing various OP skills/builds and ideas to fix em?

Gift3d · Sep 16, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

it's a terrible skill in pvp. which is, you know, what guild wars is about.

and in pve nothing's "overpowered" cause its just c-space pve skill here ridiculous monster skill there. if you dont like to pve with it dont use it. cause other people pveing with it won't affect you, directly or indirectly, whatsoever.

Smarty · Sep 16, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Only if mesmers are given a serious buff (in PvE) at the same time.

Chocobo1 · Sep 16, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I was hoping someone would make this point. Why not make another thread for each OP skill rather than say, "there are plenty of OP unbalanced skills so let's ignore them all." The live team has shown a few things to us players recently... one of which is that they're basically too busy to focus much on skill balance, even in PvP. Why not help em out a little by listing and discussing various OP skills/builds and ideas to fix em?

I know what you are trying to do, but Anet rarely looks at these forums, and it's even rarer to find them taking advice from us. If you want to fix PvE, you will have to hit all skills at the same time.

At this point in the game, there is really no hope for PvE. The game was designed for PvP, then tried to shift to PvE and made it incredibly bad. There is issue upon issue that needs fixing, and it goes beyond our skill selection.

Schnellburg · Sep 16, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

LOL so nerf something that just about everyone uses...? Yeah...Nerf UA or WoH or Hell even Dragon Slash why your at it. These threads are getting out of hand. If you don't like it, just don't use it. Why do you wanna ruin the fun for other?

Fyi Ap is used in Speed Clears AP+MoP+Barbs=3 standard skills on a MoP for Manlyway/Physway.

Chocobo1 · Sep 16, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

LOL so nerf something that just about everyone uses...? Yeah...Nerf UA or WoH or Hell even Dragon Slash why your at it. These threads are getting out of hand. If you don't like it, just don't use it. Why do you wanna ruin the fun for other?

Fyi Ap is used in Speed Clears AP+MoP+Barbs=3 standard skills on a MoP for Manlyway/Physway.

Even though I disagree with nerfing AP, by your reasoning we should have an Auto-Kill skill, because if you don't like it dont use it.

Schnellburg · Sep 16, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

AP isn't use in speedclears and farming just as you said. So how does it unbalance the game? NO NERFbat required

He says it right there AP isn't use in Speed Clears.

I didn't say that, by my reasoning ppl complaining about stuff they either can't use, or won't use is killing this game, not overpowered skills. People are jealous that others are making more money then them, and making their E-Peen larger. You nerf SF and I'll bet money that you nerf a large populations farming area, IE FoW/UW. Ap nerf isn't needed, nor will it affect other builds at all. There is no reason for it, plain and simple.

Xx Da Best Xx · Sep 16, 2009, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Actually Im pretty sure AP is part of the MoP build i run in FoWSCs...Yet i wouldnt call it OP. You have to time it right since its only a 10-14sec ish hex. If it were to ever change, which i dont think it should...It should recharge Assassin skills rather than all skills, or just reduce the duration of the hex...

Still
/notsign

drunk n angry · Sep 16, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

/notsigned what does it matter? not used to farm with, this dont make your precious ectos drop in price.... its like saying "OMFG>>> WE NEED TO NERF TROLL UNGUENT CAUSE IT CAN GIVE BETTER HEALING THEN HEALING BREEZE> WTF?!!!!" come on man if you are going to suggest a nerf make it one that is an actual problem, not a skill that you are just throwing out your butt into the nerf bat

majikmajikmajik · Sep 16, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunk n angry

/notsigned what does it matter? not used to farm with, this dont make your precious ectos drop in price.... its like saying "OMFG>>> WE NEED TO NERF TROLL UNGUENT CAUSE IT CAN GIVE BETTER HEALING THEN HEALING BREEZE> WTF?!!!!" come on man if you are going to suggest a nerf make it one that is an actual problem, not a skill that you are just throwing out your butt into the nerf bat

id also like to add that if your gunna suggest a nerf, suggest an idea for the nerf, instead of saying its OP (when its not used for elite farming or pvp).

Jeydra · Sep 16, 2009, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

There is so much that needs fixing in PvE, why bother with this? Sure it's pretty damn strong, but I'm not really worried about it.

Agree, especially since the REAL Gods of DPS in the game aren't based on AP. AP might be overpowered compared to the other skills around, but so long as the even more overpowered skills exist I see no reason to hit AP.

Shayne Hawke · Sep 16, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

AP is good, but it's nowhere near imbalanced.

KZaske · Sep 16, 2009, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I agree with part of what the OP is saying, it is a slightly over powered skill. Does it deserve a nerf bat, I don't think so.
Chocobo1 is right about the relative power of various skills
"Stupidly insane Tier: Shadow Form
Overpowered Tier: AP, RoJ (It's still pretty insane), Most PvE Skills, more stuff that I cbf listing
Good Tier: Spiteful Spirit, Savanah Heat, (stuff like this that isn't woamg overpowered but is still useful)
Meh Tier: Everything else."

Not much else needs to be said. /Not signed.

Axel Zinfandel · Sep 16, 2009, 03:27 AM // 03:27

AP is not overpowered because it is used in a lot of builds with skills that have long recharge times, so that you can spam skills more often. It also has a large recharge timer itself.

Many builds are absolutely worthless if AP is cast at the wrong time and runs out, or is removed. You will them be sitting there useless for sometimes what is the remainder of the fight.

The build that is most overpowered with this consists of the PvE skills "Finish Him!", Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, and usually "You move like a Dwarf!".

The only skill mentioned there that I believe should get a nerf is Assassin Support because there should have been allowed only one assassin in play at a time from the very beginning, like Asuran summons.

The problem is not always where you think it is :P

Skyy High · Sep 16, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

The problem is AP allows PvE skills, which are already absurdly OP-ed, to be spammed even more. It basically lets all of your play revolve around casting 3 PvE skills of choice, over and over again, with instant recharges, and it even throws in a Soul Reaping effect (or just doubles your SR, if you're a necro already). People are talking about how it's useless with hex removal or if your target doesn't die, but a) it's PvE; you KNOW if there is going to be hex removal, and tricking the AI into wasting it isn't hard, and b) if you're not killing one monster every 10 seconds in PvE, you're just horrible, and certainly not in a position to talk about how powerful AP is/can be.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

As previously mentioned, AP isn't the problem. It's the stupidly overpowered PvE skills that it fuels that is the problem. Making it not work with PvE skills is really all you need to do with it.