Curse

Marzipan Marci · Sep 18, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

/notsigned

There were too many noob Dungeon Runners. UW is still possible without MoR, FoW is still possible without MoR, most of the dungeons are more than easy without MoR, if MoR nerf hurts you that much, go and farm red iris flowers or i dont know...

BlackSephir · Sep 18, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

/signed

I dont want to be pushed into using a SF sin!

Don't worry, SF will probably be nerfed soon.
But then you people will whine that AN forces you to PLAY THE GAME instead of farming. How dreadful.

sosycpsycho · Sep 18, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

God forbid anyone has to come up with a new farming build.

And that is my point, There will always be a new farming build. I have several that will never see Pvxwiki despite my not playing Guild Wars more than once a month now and I would love to share. I protect them from the public to keep them off the chopping blocks. People are so fast to derive amusement from nerfs when it's funny that a developer allows something to go on for a very long time, then remove it late down the road in an attempt to balance something. It is not balance it is "We have no content to add so we are pruning your power in hopes to tie you down to new projects"
When they nerf a skill it makes things take more time, if this was a nerf intended to directly effect 600 and mantra based farming builds then it's just the new beginning to a power creep. They will destroy the current "farming Meta" then OP new skills to create a new one all in the name of extending the life of the game keeping you the player occupied on trivial pursuits.

All these people talking about 600/Sf needing a nerf this is apples and oranges, if you played this game as long as I have you know it won't stop anything they will OP another skill and people will be farming with it then.
The point is A-net likes to let us all have our fun using some admittedly OP build and they wait just till about everyone has built it and then they do the bait and switch power shift. They figure at this point that so many people have these farming builds going that it's a good time to phase them out and create the powershift and personally I just think it's too late in the life of this game for them to be changing the dynamic simply to give people something else to do.

Back on topic, the Mantra of Resolve change was excessive and it made the skill worthless in a pve situation which it could be used by normal pve teams.
At this point anti-interruption skills are very weak with the Elementalist glyph, the Paragon shout, 2 Mesmer mantras, and one Dervish skill all that will stop possibly one interrupt at most. MoR eating excessive amounts of your energy as a cost and The dervish skill costing you an enchant every time pretty much make the skills a waste of space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marzipan Marci

There were too many noob Dungeon Runners.

I am sure you are a plethora of excellence that everyone should strive towards. So basically your a fan of bullying? Let's make everything just hard enough that those who can do it can rip off those who can't? That's a wonderful theory. How about instead of calling people noobs and qq's some of you come up with a sensible and logical support for your opinion other than putting yourself on some pedestal.

Red Apple · Sep 18, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I was worried about the farming builds but now,
Is it even useful for pve? now it only lasts 5s and takes 20r hmm..?
Balance? what balance?

cloud4905 · Sep 18, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Don't worry, SF will probably be nerfed soon.
But then you people will whine that AN forces you to PLAY THE GAME instead of farming. How dreadful.

Part of the point is that they already have a crap-ton of useless skills in this game that no one would ever touch for any reason. When they nerf a skill like this that some people actually like using in general, not just for pvp or 600 farming, that's one less decent skill to use. It's also sad that Linsey and the live team can't seem to understand the need to do a pvp/pve split on certain skills, as well as needing to not "Smiter's Boon" skills. Maybe they should take some tips from other MMO-operating companies on what "balance" means.

Little O B S I · Sep 18, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

/signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed

You clearly don't understand the problem. Telling people to use other builds is essentially saying "don't get upset over the flexibility being destroyed! Just use permas! Permas are the answer to everything!"

It's funny because your lazy, as is everyone else in this damned topic that feels a grave injustice has been cast about them. The whole point of nerfs/buffs is that it means players have to adapt and change their builds, you don't have to play permas, just use something else. Perma's aren't the only viable farming builds..

Jecht Scye · Sep 18, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

/signed.

It was ridiculous to nerf it for PvE.

Let this be a lesson to the LIVE team. If you want to change the way a skill works in one mode, just split the skill.

iTzF3aR · Sep 18, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little O B S I

It's funny because your lazy, as is everyone else in this damned topic that feels a grave injustice has been cast about them. The whole point of nerfs/buffs is that it means players have to adapt and change their builds, you don't have to play permas, just use something else. Perma's aren't the only viable farming builds..

This is the best thing that has been posted in this thread yet to be honest.

Coverticus · Sep 18, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

So many people have posted "omg... 600 is nerfed now, I want MoR back as it was" etc etc.

Sorry guys and girls, if you cannot 600 without it, either start learning to 600 more proficiently or walk away from it. 600ing can be done still, very easily. Granted certain areas (yes ok, I will mention Raptors) are now harder, if not nigh-on impossible to do (for most).

But seriously, MoR was ALWAYS OPd for what it was used for in this context. No one should be permanently un-interruptable (therefore draw a comparison to SF

), which a standard Mo/Me build would grant the player.

So you can't farm the Raptors. Oh well, find another farm area where interuptions are less or non-existant. There are plenty of these in game.

Farming areas come and go, either through a skill nerf or area nerf (prime example Griffons). This is where adaptation skills come into play. I hope ANet keep as it is now because in all honesty, this promotes things in the right direction from a game perspective.

Be thankful 600ing IS still possible - ANet could easily have batted Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond or Shield of Absorption. But they didn't.

Therefore /notsigned

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 18, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

/quityourbitching

Not signed for extremely obvious reasons.

Catchphrase · Sep 18, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Better analogy.
If your arms (SF) and your legs (600) are both broken (overpowered), would you rather the doctor fix your legs and leave your arms broken, or just keep them both broken?

If both limbs are injured beyond fix with cancerous tumors (OP), I would rather them be amputated to preserve my life (game balance). Yes, people will probably go back some sort of "immune to spells" tank-and-spank but at least it is not as easy and fast as the current SF with splitting made nigh impossible. And I don't believe it is an accidental oversight made by Anet else they wouldn't have written that page long developer's update without noticing what a senseless nerf they have made to MoR in PvE. Either that or they have eye cataracts. Does it hurt 600 smites? Maybe. But it hurts typical casters who are using it as a counter measure in those dungeons with loads of interrupts like Justicar Thommis.

fowlero · Sep 18, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

When i used to farm things got nerfed, you shouldnt QQ about it. Spend some time adjusting it to the area you used it in, or alternatively find some fresh area's/builds.

Also i'm pretty sure anet didn't design (all? i dont know what can

) the dungeons to be 600'd so i'd imagine that's why they didn't split the skill.

Impressive considering so many of you want SF nerfed, but god forbid they touch something able to small team as many area's as SF.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 18, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

If your arms (SF) and your legs (600) are both broken (overpowered), would you rather the doctor fix your legs and leave your arms broken, or just keep them both broken?

Answer: my arms and legs (330hp Vengeful Spirit Bonder) are doing just fine, and I laugh at the guy with the broken arms and legs.

D E C E P T I V E · Sep 18, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

/signed

it needed to be nerfed for the pvp builds that abuse it, but i dont think it needed to be nefed that bad really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Jim

But seriously, MoR was ALWAYS OPd for what it was used for in this context. No one should be permanently un-interruptable (therefore draw a comparison to SF

), which a standard Mo/Me build would grant the player

LoL, You can interrupt/shut down through mantra

guilt, shame, signet of humility, blackout, skills that end the stance, knockdowns, classes that can interrupt constantly can drain energy and eventually end the stance after which they will probably not get energy needed to get it up and running effectively again

I know a net made the argument, we want to make pve players think about what skills are really important, but comeon, lets make the pvper think a little.

Coverticus · Sep 18, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E

LoL, You can interrupt/shut down through mantra

guilt, shame, signet of humility, blackout, skills that end the stance, knockdowns, classes that can interrupt constantly can drain energy and eventually end the stance after which they will probably not get energy needed to get it up and running effectively again

600d much?

Yes there are skills available that go through MoR, however with Spellbreaker and the old ability to recast MoR relatively quickly (if you knew what you were doing) pretty much meant what I stated was true. K/Ds you just dealt with (unless running, for example, IAU).

Shadowmoon · Sep 18, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

/signed
Pvp nerf (read the reasons in dev update) ruining pve farming builds. Looks to me they nerfed the skill not knowing how it was used in pve. I'd have no problem with the nerf if they had an official statement (dev update, wiki entry, regina post) saying that it was also OP in pve. Otherwise i see this as collateral damage, and the pvp/pve split should be used. Why did they program that in for the first place?

D E C E P T I V E · Sep 18, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

[QUOTE=Terra Jim;4860689]600d much? QUOTE]

Yes, I see what you are saying and wasnt trying to offend. I know 600 is still doable,

anyway I was talking more towards PvP. Like I said in my post there are ways to interrupt or shutdown through MoR available to every class.

I just dont like A Nets Reasoning about wanting pve players to have to think about the game. Anyone that sees a caster with a me secondary should be thinking they could have MoR on them.

Like I said lets make the pvpers actually think a little... guilt, shame, signet of himility knockdowns, skills that end the stance, daze, keep int to end the stance.

Evil Eye · Sep 18, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

No. Leave it be. Wah wah my 600 can't kill 50 monsters in hardmode without trouble now.

HawkofStorms · Sep 18, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Apple

I was worried about the farming builds but now,
Is it even useful for pve? now it only lasts 5s and takes 20r hmm..?
Balance? what balance?

Balance compared to glyph of concentration and all the other skills that prevent interrupting. MoR was clearly superior to several other skills with similar functionality (same reason rip enchantment's recharge was increased, it wasn't necessarily TOO good, it was just better then all the alternatives).

@Shadowmoon, even if a.net says they nerfed this for PvP reasons, you have to think they knew this would nerf PvE builds as well, and did so intentionally.

Age · Sep 18, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Mantra of Resolve was used way before 600 and Raptor farming came into play.It was mainly used on the 55 for the UW and where interrupts were common.It now useless for this.

/sign for revert.