Curse

iTzF3aR · Sep 18, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

/notsigned

You can still 600/smite l2adapt

DarkGanni · Sep 18, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

First of all 600 isn't nerfed, so much panic for 1 skill, cause you still can do most of the areas without.

The only reason I agree about the split it's due to the bad change 5 seconds duration with 10 energy and you ALSO need to spec high in inspiration to make the energy loss decent.

It's just not worth it the way it is now, it's more useless than balanced.

/signed

- Ganni

Effendi Westland · Sep 18, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

I am for nerfing SF and therefor I cannot be against the nerfing of 600.

AexIndex · Sep 18, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

As Linsey said they do not want to limit certain areas where noone wants to play something anymore.

That was the reason they didn't nerf SF

The reason they nerfed Ursan was because it was over used.

Now the 600's are being pushed into making Permas because they are the only thing that can farm certain areas now.

iTzF3aR · Sep 18, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

You do know they reason they nerfed Ursan was not because it was over used but because of the fact instead of people jumping in and playing, people started asking for ss10/lb8. 600 is NOT being pushed into making permas, the MoR nerf was more for PvP yes but how is 600/smite NOT op ?

prey monkie · Sep 18, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

change it back. or nerf sf 600 55 and any other farm

Kattar · Sep 18, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Poll added, options tweaked as well.

Revelations · Sep 18, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You can correct me if I ma wrong but mantra of reslove never go used in pvp.I would like an example if so.

You're wrong. VoR. Humsig. RTL. Probably abused in far more situations, but those are the three most recent ones I can pull off the top of my head.

OT: PvE is easy enough without this. So it killed a few degenerate farms? QQ. Either finish it the real way, or find another one. I hope it stays dead.

iTzF3aR · Sep 18, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

You're wrong. VoR. Humsig. RTL. Probably abused in far more situations, but those are the three most recent ones I can pull off the top of my head.

OT: PvE is easy enough without this. So it killed a few degenerate farms? QQ. Either finish it the real way, or find another one. I hope it stays dead.

You can't also forget E/Me SH with MoR.

Dawn Angelheart · Sep 18, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

The logic of "they should nerf all the farm builds at once, or none at all" is assine. If they had nerfed SF in this patch, but not 600, the qqing would have been the exact opposite (OMG why nerf SF and not 600, I don't want to make a monk). If they had nerfed both, people would just be threatening to rage quit (but not actually quit).

We all know this build should have been nerfed. Dungeons that should need a full party should not be 2/3 maned.

I expect A.net nerfed 600 before they nerfed SF just to gauge the reaction (ie, see how many people actually carried out their threats and quit the game) so they could know if it would be smart to nerf the much more popular SF.
Hopefully, the community doesn't rage too much. If you continue to threaten and complain about how nerfing 600 was bad, A.net might back down and not nerf SF, and completely undercut your own arguement.

Best thing in this thread i have read so far.

Catchphrase · Sep 18, 2009, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

The logic of "they should nerf all the farm builds at once, or none at all" is assine. If they had nerfed SF in this patch, but not 600, the qqing would have been the exact opposite (OMG why nerf SF and not 600, I don't want to make a monk). If they had nerfed both, people would just be threatening to rage quit (but not actually quit).

We all know this build should have been nerfed. Dungeons that should need a full party should not be 2/3 maned.

I expect A.net nerfed 600 before they nerfed SF just to gauge the reaction (ie, see how many people actually carried out their threats and quit the game) so they could know if it would be smart to nerf the much more popular SF.
Hopefully, the community doesn't rage too much. If you continue to threaten and complain about how nerfing 600 was bad, A.net might back down and not nerf SF, and completely undercut your own arguement.

This is a silly defense for that obnoxious update. Do you break your arm just to have a feeling what it is like to have your leg broken? I am annoyed because Anet has just been employing double standards to their updates. Sure 600 smite is kinda overboard but compared to how SF has been employed in nearly every elite areas and dungeons, it is a trifle. They nerf ursan because it destroy roles diversity in PvE but how does SF in anyway different from that?

And the "they do not want to limit certain areas where noone wants to play something anymore" line is nothing but pure excuse to protect the farmers, not the players who genuinely want to complete it within their own means. Sure elite areas are called 'elite' for the challenges they hold but why is it more punishing towards people running proper team builds than those farming builds? If anything, it should be the exact opposite.

AngelWJedi · Sep 18, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

they should nerf it into oblivion together with SF. Nobody forces you qq to use anything. What kind of flexibility you all are talking about if you are able just to use 600 or SF? Go learn how to play.

/notsigned

So you're saying i dont know how to play if i use 600 alot?

I only 600 cof when i need rin/chalices,dust or event items and title points. and i only used MoR when i lagged in cof. i've been playing gw for 24 months and the only was i was able to get maxed party and sugar and up to 7460 booze so far was with me doing cof and raptors for event stuff. Anet if you're going to nerf one way to farm in a update then why not nerf them ALL at the same time. Stop trying to force us into other ways to farm. If we wanted to farm those ways we would have. some of use just prefer to do 600 then idiot Permas. And i only farmed uw a few times on monk and it was never to clear it. So please stop nerfing us or gtfo with the high priced titles in gw.

ll Jamie ll · Sep 18, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

First of all 600 isn't nerfed, so much panic for 1 skill, cause you still can do most of the areas without.

The only reason I agree about the split it's due to the bad change 5 seconds duration with 10 energy and you ALSO need to spec high in inspiration to make the energy loss decent.

It's just not worth it the way it is now, it's more useless than balanced.

/signed

- Ganni

I agree with every point made here by Ganni. Couldn't have worded it better myself.

Also, /signed.

Tom Swift · Sep 18, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

.

We all know this build should have been nerfed. Dungeons that should need a full party should not be 2/3 maned.

No we do not all know that

As the dungeons are at the moment they are a complete waste of time for a full party and are only worth someone's time if they can be done quickly and for the profit from customers paying for the run to fill their books.

I don't even run dungeons and I still think this was one of the most bone-headed moves A-Net ever made.

Fate Crusher · Sep 18, 2009, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Linsey mentioned in their Q&A session that, in a way, they respect solo and duo farming builds to the extent that they do not harm these farms extensively. I believe they weakened MoR strictly on the current state it's being used in PvP.

I'm only saying they should split it PvP/PvE because:
1. PVE COMMUNITY IS ANGRYYY. rawr.
2. PVE COMMUNITY CANT FARM COF ANYMORE (what's the point!?). rawr.
3. So many in the PvE community will see this as a terrorist attack on the farming populace that they will quit and spread the word that Anet are douches for ruining their hours of lonesome gameplay.

Seriously. If someone can give me a 600 farm that requires MoR and yields high rewards, I will understand why so many people are complaining over this skill.
I occasionally 600 the UW with Bonnetti's and Frenzy and tbh, that is probably the highest rewarding farm... However, i don't know the build for Shards of Orr, but a good BDS is very very rare.

Oh and to all those who are saying Anet are nerfing this skill to stop farming: Where on earth does it say that on their official statement for changing the skill? They did it to stop how OP it was in PvP and to be honest, It's quite OP in PvE as well. Honestly, MoR isn't used in ALL 600 builds. Grow up and take your blinkers off. Or make a 40/20 staff.

P.S. you can still use the bloody skill.
P.P.S. I can understand that some dungeons are needed for completing HM books/titles/bla bla... Unless you're going for Master of the North, just do some Speed Booking. Oh wait, that requires a perma. *Shock & Awe*

Stranger The Ranger · Sep 18, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14

If it stops the farmers from crying...

/signed

BrettM · Sep 18, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Out of cusiosity, what goals are unobtainable for a dedicated by playing the game for 1 year.

What do you mean by "dedicated"?

Here is one example: I would like to max Treasure Hunter. I currently have 5900 chests left to open, and I'm following the cheapest strategy of only opening 600g chests using lockpicks. If I open 25 chests each day, it will take me 236 days -- a good portion of a year even if I take no days off -- to max the title. This takes about 45 minutes per day, and I break on average about 10k worth of lockpicks each day (buying picks at the standard 1.25k rate from other players). I might get around 3k back by merching the drops, so I have to cover 7k per day from other sources. That would take a few hours of regular play each day unless I get a very, very lucky drop. I can spend a couple of hours in a HM EotN dungeon and not come out with 7k.

Oh, but wait. Making a chest run for 45 min is farming, not playing the game! So, forget that. I'll have to open 25 chests encountered while playing the game. How many hours do you think I will have to play each day to run across 25 600g chests? Or, if I open any chest I find up to 25 -- including HM chests where I have a low retention rate -- it will take less time to find them, but I'm going to break many more picks. And it will still take longer than 45 min. So, either I will have to play even more hours per day to afford this, or I will have to open fewer chests, lengthening the time it takes to earn the title.

That's only one title. What about elite armors, Destroyer weapons, other expensive titles, etc? Meanwhile keeping myself supplied with ID and Salvage kits, and other incidental expenses. Am I supposed to be able to do all this in a year by just playing the game? Should I give up my job and lock myself in a room 10 hours a day to play GW?

If that's what you mean by "dedicated", then count me out. I'm going to farm to get these things, as I think any sane person would. It will still likely take me a year, but it won't consume my life in the process.

Tramp · Sep 18, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

/signed

I dont want to be pushed into using a SF sin!

HawkofStorms · Sep 18, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catchphrase

This is a silly defense for that obnoxious update. Do you break your arm just to have a feeling what it is like to have your leg broken? I am annoyed because Anet has just been employing double standards to their updates. Sure 600 smite is kinda overboard but compared to how SF has been employed in nearly every elite areas and dungeons, it is a trifle. They nerf ursan because it destroy roles diversity in PvE but how does SF in anyway different from that?

And the "they do not want to limit certain areas where noone wants to play something anymore" line is nothing but pure excuse to protect the farmers, not the players who genuinely want to complete it within their own means. Sure elite areas are called 'elite' for the challenges they hold but why is it more punishing towards people running proper team builds than those farming builds? If anything, it should be the exact opposite.

Better analogy.
If your arms (SF) and your legs (600) are both broken (overpowered), would you rather the doctor fix your legs and leave your arms broken, or just keep them both broken?

SF should and likely will be nerfed.

Keep in mind, most of these nerfs in this update, including the MoR one, were directed at PvP. And the reason to not split every single skill in the game is because that leads it to being too complicated of a skill system. If every single skill in the game has 2 functionalities, there is no longer a game called Guild Wars. There is instead, Guild Wars: PvE and Guild Wars: PvP. Unifying skills allows for people to more easily transition from one to the other.

And yes "we" do know that speed clears and dungeon runs are bad. Games are about having fun. Not going through it as fast as possible to get your phat loot. Being afk while a SF or 600 runs you through a dungeon is not fun. If all you care about is loot, well, enjoy your pixels.

I'd rather beat bloodstone caves in 30 min in HM with my H/H no consumables and get 2 diamonds from the end chest, then I would being afk and get a 45 min run through SOO and get a Bone Dragon Staff. At least in the first one I'm doing something fun. The second... I'm mooching and getting something for zero effort.

Kattar · Sep 18, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

I dont want to be pushed into using a SF sin!

God forbid anyone has to come up with a new farming build.