Curse

MagmaRed · Sep 26, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

During the terrible VoD fortressway meta, Spliter weapon was one of the few skills that rewarded good play and punished poor positioning. It was nerfed for VoD farm, nothing more. The same VoD farm that iQ regularly brought glyph sac meteorshower to farm. Currently Spliter weapon is just not worth bringing, that is not a strong skill.

That argument is pretty stupid. You are assuming Anet nerfed it for ONE reason only. It may be the case, but only they know unless they explicitly stated they nerfed ONLY because of VoD. However, you are arguing a skill is not strong in PvE because of a change in PvP. If you aren't seeing Splinter Weapon (Spliter?) as a strong skill in PvE, then you have some problems. I am not saying it is better than other options ALL the time, but I am saying the skill does function VERY well in many PvE builds. I see it being used by Rangers, N/Rt's for Sab and Discord teams, E/Rt buffers, and Me/Rt players as well. People playing with heroes and hench will often toss it on a hero if they dont' have it themselves.

The skill works very well as it is in PvE. Buffing it will only make it become overpowered..... like it was, which is why it got nerfed.

I actually think the nerf to Splinter Weapon was one of the best nerfs they have ever done. I would like to see this kind of nerf done more often.

Being · Sep 26, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

/signed. Because I'd like to compete with SF if it isn't going anywhere.

This.

Honestly for general PvE there still wont be a huge difference; I recall many saying exactly that when the nerf did some around.

Changing it back would mainly bring it back for farming again, and with Perma Assassins still around probably for some speed clears like FoW.

/signed

Sir Mad · Sep 26, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

Splinter barrage would destroy mobs in seconds, along with making extremely powerful PvE spike builds that would probably break the game's elite areas even more than they are already broken. /Signed

It already destroys mobs in seconds if there are well packed...

HawkofStorms · Sep 26, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Indeed.

And some people already don't, I mean look, people even agreed with what I said!

Yep, it's sad just how many people don't realize this thread is trying to be ironic. Bah... I should just start playing Aion. Awful timing with the MoR revert A.net with that game coming out now (or really good, maybe it was an elaborate conspiracy by NCSoft to sell more stuff).

Reverend Dr · Sep 26, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

That argument is pretty stupid. You are assuming Anet nerfed it for ONE reason only. It may be the case, but only they know unless they explicitly stated they nerfed ONLY because of VoD.

They did, it was in commentary that I can no longer find. It was changed for VoD the same that Finale of Resto was changed only for the tiebreaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

The skill works very well as it is in PvE. Buffing it will only make it become overpowered..... like it was, which is why it got nerfed.

I'm all for removing all of the overpowered stuff in PvE. But to do so would require so many nerfs to so many skills and create such unrest in the community all while really having a very small effect upon the game itself, that it certainly isn't a surprise that Anet isn't doing so at this point. Until the multiple flavors of permanent invulnerability, many many different builds that easily do more than 100 DPS, easily maintained party buffs that render teams practically invulnerable, PvE-only skills, and I could keep going, until those are all taken care of the idea of "PvE balance itself is a joke."

And why would I ever run splinter weapon in pve? AoE is just much more effective on casters than trying to do it on melee. What would I rather have 40 damage on 3 adjacent targets for 3 hits, or +20 damage that is affected by asuran scan on every hit?

Sure, nerf a bunch of stuff and it'll be good in pve again. And I'm all for those nerfs, but good luck getting them to go through.

Shayne Hawke · Sep 26, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Yep, it's sad just how many people don't realize this thread is trying to be ironic.

Oh, what are you talking about, Hawk? I mean every word I ever say, ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

They did, it was in commentary that I can no longer find. It was changed for VoD the same that Finale of Resto was changed only for the tiebreaker.

Luckily for you, I have recently looked this up. Dev Updates, 11/08/2007.

stale · Sep 27, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Indeed.

And some people already don't, I mean look, people even agreed with what I said!

ah, but i agreed on the basis that letting everything revert to it's pre-nerf state, at least for a weekend, would be fun. the actual list of changes i'd love to see is seriously off topic for this thread, and wouldn't be popular anyway.

Shayne Hawke · Sep 27, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

I guess since people around here are getting pretty fed up with the "revert this, revert that" mentality, I may as well clarify why I brought this up.

Splinter Weapon pretty much has one use: throw it on someone who can dish out lots of attacks in a short period of time and nuke a whole mob of enemies to the ground. Always been that way. It became a lot less effective around two Novembers ago when ANet changed it due to GvG abuse.

When that happened, my main qualm with it was it totally nerfed the farm of "Battle of Turai's Procession", which was something I was using a great deal at the time. At the time, I'm sure there were a few other builds that had been using this for farming purposes. Since they'd said at the time, "Splinter Weapon has been a favorite skill in high-end PvE and will be watching this change closely," that made me feel like the PvP/PvE skill split would have been the ideal time for them to adjust this back in PvE. No dice.

So I find it a little ironic when they do things like revert Finale of Restoration in PvE for a Paragon farming build when the main reason for its change in the first place was from GvG abuse, and the same with MoR being reverted in PvE, regardless of its change being unintentional or not, when the initial adjustment was also for PvP reasons. And yet, Splinter Weapon just stays right where it's at.

It's not like reverting it is going to make it that much more powerful in PvE anyways, outside of farming. How often is it that you fight groups of five or six enemies in adjacent range clusters, outside of your favorite farming spot?

The issue I'm trying to put out is that ANet's stance has always been pretty ridiculous when it comes to farming, but if their current stance is that skills should stay as they are or be reverted back to more powerful states when they cripple here-and-there farming builds, why not bother to revert back all of the other skills they decided to stick on the chopping block?

As a final note, I'm serious about asking for this change and am trying to provoke some discussion here, but regardless of whether it gets changed or not, I'll probably just go back to farming raptors.

Arkantos · Sep 28, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

It's already a very powerful skill in PvE, it doesn't need to be reverted. Just because ANet made a PvE/PvP skill split doesn't mean ANet should take already powerful skills and revert them to an even more powerful state.

IntrospectivePirate · Sep 28, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Remember many, many months ago when ANet changed Splinter Weapon to have a scale to how many enemies it would hit? I believe the reason was because it was being abused at the flag stand in GvG. The PvP/PvE skill split took place a few months later I believe, but this was never addressed.

I'd like that clause removed from the PvE skill.

Perhaps this is the reason it was nerfed, BUT it is likely that its abuses in farming had at least an equal weight in ANET's decision to nerf this skill. In previous days it was overpowered and worthy of perhaps even Elite status.
Elite status would have put an end to splinter/barrage builds, which were splinter weapon's main farming use, anywho.

I would just be happy they even let splinter weapon exist as a buff to barrage or other equally potent combinations.

This skill should NOT () be reverted without change to elite status.

FURTHER, yes it became alot less effective when they changed the skill to a less powerful form. That is called "nerfing" the skill, and is the expected outcome of nerfing.

Also, if we made changes to skills just to suit every little farming or pvp build we would end up......wait.....EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE NOW. Inconsistent power distribution across the different professions in game in different areas and as a whole. Perhaps it was always this unbalanced.

Not to mention every change will likely end up screwing someone over. This is not to say you shouldn't fight for what you want at the expense of other players.

Perhaps you should just feel guilty if you do get what you want.

Perhaps the best thing anet could have done is to have kept a little less hands on approach when it came to skills. If you really get down to it some things have always been relatively overpowered compared to others. Anet does not do a perfect job of balancing skills. Changing this skill back will change relatively little in game (of course some mobs would hurt more

)

lol. So i guess go for it.

reaper with no name · Sep 30, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Are you kidding? Splinter weapon is powerful enough as-is.

/notsigned

Thenameless Wonder · Sep 30, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

2 things to say. I really love splinter + barrage the way it is atm (didn't experience the OP skill so I don't know how it was like, Im sure it was great =D). But it has its advantages in its current state and its pretty powerful.

/notsigned

The Drunkard · Sep 30, 2009, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntrospectivePirate

Also, if we made changes to skills just to suit every little farming or pvp build we would end up......wait.....EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE NOW. Inconsistent power distribution across the different professions in game in different areas and as a whole. Perhaps it was always this unbalanced.

Skill balances are to change specific skills to Anet's fancy...they focus around "every little farming or pvp build."

There has always been a large rift between pve and pvp because of skills, and Anet had to balance between the two. Now with the split, anet should revisit skills that they have nerfed/buffed and change accordingly. The revert war has been escalated starting in the spring, where anet decided to buff skills such as Expert's dex, Lingering curse, Weaken knees, PnH, Palm Strike to create overpowered builds. Stop trying to tie the MoR revert with the power creep; they are two completly different concepts.

Looking at all the broken skills now (Searing Flames, HB+Mop combo, RoJ, CoP, signet of spirits) i fail to understand how a revert to splinter would degenerate the game any more. Give it a 10e cost so rangers can't abuse as much and take off the enemy limit.

/signed

Yawgmoth · Oct 01, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

/not signed

it's still a strong skill, other skills should be balanced better, PvE has already waaay too much ridiculous imba, no need to add more.

Shasgaliel · Oct 01, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Why stop there? Let's PvE split ever skill that's ever been nerfed back to their unnerfed version.

easy to implement and we already got a flavour of it. Will make people play not only UWSC sins. /BIG signed.

@OP signed of course. If SF is fine and reserving mantra for whining farmers was fine then all other classes deserve some additional love....

BTW nobody mentioned putting ursan back to its previous form yet?

Fort Ranik is not too hard?

Elephantaliste · Oct 01, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

powerfull enough, that's why it is still one of most used Rit skills.

/unsigned

Drelias Melaku · Oct 02, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy

/signed

Splinter Weapon originally hit all adjacent, it stayed that way for a VERY long time, nobody complained. But then it got abused in PvP and nerf follwed.

Would be great to have the R/Rt or Rt/R margonite farm back... and Wardens, froggies etc with splinter weapon would get a boost. They could actually be dangerous in HM, instead of just tickling your minions.

All the knee-jerk "QQ", "OMG revert everything that ever got nerfed", "Regardless of what this thread is about, I must use it to say something about SF"... it's all getting really old. If you have a genuine reason that you think its a bad idea, then fine - EXPLAIN WHY instead of making meaningless knuckle-dragging reflex posts that just make you look dumb.

^ This

/signed for adding a couple more enemies to the PvE version, but I don't think we need ALL adjacent. It is a very powerful skill as it is.

lutz · Oct 02, 2009, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

During the terrible VoD fortressway meta, Spliter weapon was one of the few skills that rewarded good play and punished poor positioning. It was nerfed for VoD farm, nothing more. The same VoD farm that iQ regularly brought glyph sac meteorshower to farm. Currently Spliter weapon is just not worth bringing, that is not a strong skill.

Here, I'll fix it for you:

During the terrible VoD fortressway meta, Spliter weapon was one of the many skills that rewarded good ability to ball up NPCs and abuse their AI and play "farm the NPCs" instead of playing GvG. It was nerfed for VoD farm because it was an absolutely retardedly overpowered skill in VoD mechanics. The same VoD farm that iQ regularly brought glyph sac meteorshower to farm. Currently Spliter weapon is just not worth bringing because there is no VoD to ball NPCs and abuse their AI, that is not a ridiculously stupid skill.

Shasgaliel · Oct 02, 2009, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

All the knee-jerk "QQ", "OMG revert everything that ever got nerfed", "Regardless of what this thread is about, I must use it to say something about SF"... it's all getting really old. If you have a genuine reason that you think its a bad idea, then fine - EXPLAIN WHY instead of making meaningless knuckle-dragging reflex posts that just make you look dumb.

If the rational arguments are ignored guess what you will get. How many times we have to repeat ouserselves in every buff this buff that unnerf this unnerf that threads? Maybe when we have all OP skills back then people will realize how bad it all is and how dull the game can be when you play easy mode all the time.

But that is not the issue some care about is it? Dull and easy game is not the problem when people play to farm.

It is all again about farming... Some do not care how OP some skills are or can be and how broken the game may become. The points is to get easier ways to farm... People are tired of replying to this crap so they post sarcastic arguments. You will see more and more of them.

How many nerfs did break the game? How many buffs did? Compare those two numbers first. Also what ANET said the reason for nerf was does not mean it was not OP elsewhere.

And to all people with hidden (or often obvious) agenda "buff this skill so I can farm more" - it is all clear what you want regardless how elaborate arguments you use. It is just pathetic. To break a game even more so you can farm something easier....

Anyway all those Sardelac threads become another farmers v non-farmers discussion. I do not mind people farming however I do mind when they break my gameplay by farming oriented wishes...

The Drunkard · Oct 02, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

And to all people with hidden (or often obvious) agenda "buff this skill so I can farm more" - it is all clear what you want regardless how elaborate arguments you use. It is just pathetic. To break a game even more so you can farm something easier....

Why is it pathetic to ask to bring back a solo farm? There hasn't been any new content for a long time, so the only thing left to do is grind for money. You can either do that in PvE by A: running dungeons, B: playing through the game and doing quests until your eyes bleed out, or C: Farming mobs. Unlike 600/smites or permas, turai nets a large amount of common drops to net money. No item is worth over 5k, save for 2 mods and sup vig. It is also slower much slower than raptor farming. It gives rangers/rits a viable farm that nets a decent amount of money, not some super run that pulls in at least 70k an hour.

What about energizing wind...should we keep it nerfed because solo trappers could farm "easily." Just see how long a run lasts in the UW...I can guarentee that it's more than 30 min like what ursan and sf can offer.

As I said before, increase the energy cost (spirit silphon will augment for rits) and give other professions skills to farm with...It's not like reverting will ruin the game. Until pve skills and consets are removed from the game the game will never be "hard"