Curse

FoxBat · Oct 24, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Old idea, but now we have new technology to make it happen.

If you haven't noticed, codex arena completely ignores unlock issues on characters. It lets your pvp chars use skills they haven't unlocked, it lets pve chars use skills they haven't bought, it even lets you use skills from campaigns you don't own. Instead your sole constraint is the skills available that day.

We know that in GW2 the e-sport PvP will feature full unlocks, while world PvP will limit you to whatever your RP character has achieved. The purpose of locks/limitations is 1) to gradually introduce players to new skills and 2) keep people busy with grind. These two work fine for unorganized casual environments where you can basically bring what you want and make it work, but it is a huge monkey wrench getting people into organized pvp with set team builds fighting on equal grounds, especially for newcomers. Yeah alot of us have done the UAS grind, but others haven't and it's just one more unnecessary barrier.

So the suggestion is to implement something like the codex unlock release in HA and GvG outposts. Unlocks will still be required for RA, factions pvp, and heroes, so they aren't useless. (And many, many more people are doing all of those than GvG/HA.) This will however help more teams get new players into 8v8 play, and get teams going faster without waiting on them to buy/unlock skills.

IronSheik · Oct 24, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

it even lets you use skills from campaigns you don't own. .

Really? I had more than one report from guildies that if they don't own the campaign the skill is from it's locked in game in the match.

FoxBat · Oct 24, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Really? I had more than one report from guildies that if they don't own the campaign the skill is from it's locked in game in the match.

I just tested, had a pvp char on a proph-only account spamming Glimmer of Light. Also prophecies skills I hadn't unlocked like mend condition.

Your primary/secondary are still limited by campaign though. Anyway if Anet wants to get a little greedy and demand campaigns for unlock, that would still be an improvement over needing to UAS.

Eragon Zarroc · Oct 24, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

all skills unlocked for HA/GvG, but only from the campaigns you own.

/signed

Keyspa · Oct 24, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

/signed. Good idea mate.

MagmaRed · Oct 24, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

/unsigned

If you want to PvP only, and not work on PvE to get skills there are already options. Either grind the Balthazar Faction to unlock the skills at a priest, or buy the PvP kits in the store. I actually think they should limit use in Codex too, but that is just my opinion.

Tenebrae · Oct 24, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

/unsigned

If you want to PvP only, and not work on PvE to get skills there are already options. Either grind the Balthazar Faction to unlock the skills at a priest, or buy the PvP kits in the store.

+1 to that. Dont see the point in that when there are already options.

IrishX · Oct 24, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

+1 to that. Dont see the point in that when there are already options.

Because there are already few enough people in GvG, and one of the hurdles is skill/equipment unlocks.

MagmaRed · Oct 25, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

Because there are already few enough people in GvG, and one of the hurdles is skill/equipment unlocks.

There is a reason for that though. A good reason in my opinion. Unlocking skills takes time. That time is spent playing the game and learning how to use those skills and make builds. Whether it is through PvE or PvP, they both teach you what is needed. If you already know those things and dont' need to learn them, there isn't a need to unlock skills and they should already be unlocked. But if you are still unwilling to spend that time, you can pay for the PvP unlock packs, which aren't that expensive. I know a lot of people invested in them not for use in PvP, but to have hero builds available.

I don't want GW to turn into a kid game where everything is handed to you at the start. Paying for it is bad enough, but just handing it to people is worse. Do you really want more people in GvG if they are going to run a Healing Breeze Monk with a pet? Thats what you may get if you simply give people skills to use without making them learn what is good and what isn't.

IrishX · Oct 25, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

But they don't run Healing Breeze monks. I know a couple of people who show potential and want to GvG, but oftentimes can't because they can't run the builds that are needed.

You say you need time to learn how skills work. I really don't think "target foe moves 66% slower for 5 seconds" is that difficult to understand. The fact is, the GW skill system is incredibly easy to learn, and the skills actually do what their skill descriptions say most of the time. As a result, once you learn the basic mechanics, the game is pretty much just refining your micro skills and team-wide tactics for the arena you are in.

Also, second accounts say sup.

Reverend Dr · Oct 25, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Yeah many pushed to get this at release. Hindsight generally says this was the reason a lot more of the competitive community (you know that community that keeps CS and Starcraft well populated) abandoned this game.

This game has needed UAS, but putting it in 3 years ago still would have been too late.

FoxBat · Oct 25, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

People lacking in unlocks at this point are likely to have guildies giving them bars and telling them what to do, even if it's some stupid gimmick build. They are very unlikely to stumble into these teams on their own and get to make their own builds. In the 8v8 situations we don't need the game holding newbs by the hand, there are already humans doing that and they do a better job.

UAS is just the basic starting point for 8v8 play. It's not a reward that should be held out like a carrot, that's what zkeys, titles, ladder rank are for, and given their lack of skill/experience they have a long enough way to climb as it is.

Ariena Najea · Oct 25, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

I've been discussing GvG and HA with my Guild and Alliance, and I have come to the following conclusion. In order to win in Competitive PvP, you must do one of the following:

Play meta bars better than the other teams
Play meta gimmick builds and learn little to nothing
Create new gimmick builds and learn a little
Create new "balanced" builds and probably fail miserably

Regardless of what skills are required, it is likely that some will need to be unlocked. Playing gimmick builds may result in some early wins versus other unskilled teams, however, in order to actually become skilled, you need to play balanced builds. Whether you are playing the meta "balanced" or creating your own, you need to have a little skill in order to play them even at a low level. Unlocking helps get teams to that point, and prevents players from trying to do too much too fast.

For the Codex Arena, unlocks do not make sense. For other PvP formats, unlocks are beneficial in the end. If someone doesn't want to spend the time to unlock skills (or keep Balthazar Faction on hand), or buy them in PvE, they aren't going to be PvPing for very long.