Curse

reaper with no name · Nov 12, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Heart of Fury
10 energy 3/4 activation 20 recharge
For 5...17 seconds, you attack 33% faster. If this enchantment lasts its full duration, you are set on fire for 3...1 seconds.

Because dervishes need a better IAS.

IronSheik · Nov 12, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Lowering recharge by 10 and reversing end effect isn't a good IAS. Most (good non avatar) builds don't use mysticism at all. This requires high speccing+Enchant mod to maintain.

You either get set on fire and take damage, or let it run out to get a small return of energy to keep casting the 10e spell, that isn't good motivation.

Tombguard321 · Nov 12, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Heart of Fury
10 energy 3/4 activation 20 recharge
For 5...17 seconds, you attack 33% faster. If this enchantment lasts its full duration, you are set on fire for 3...1 seconds.

Because dervishes need a better IAS.

Think someone has mis-read the skill i see it as

Enchantment Spell. (5...17...20 seconds.) You attack 33% faster. End effect: inflicts Burning condition (1...3...3 seconds) on nearby foes.

Take a secondary as i believe sin has no ias without elite or via a pve skill. wouldn't they want the same.

reaper with no name · Nov 12, 2009, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Better IAS. Doesn't have to be great. Also, since when is encouraging the use of a profession's primary attribute a bad thing?

No, the setting self on fire thing is intended to balance out the shorter recharge and give it a drawback more like that of other 33% IAS's (think flail and it's movement penalty) while encouraging the stripping of it prematurely when it's near end.

MagmaRed · Nov 12, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

I don't see a problem with it as it is. Take Warrior IAS skills as an example for balance. Any of the skills that allow a permanent upkeep are balanced.

Frenzy = double damage
Flurry = reduced damage
Flail = reduced movement speed
Soldier's Stance = requires shout/chant and your elite

Then look at the skills that can't be maintained 100% (like Heart of Fury).

Tiger Stance = 9/20 seconds at 12 Strength
Berserker Stance = 10/20 at 12 Strength
Burst of Aggression = 8/12 at 12 Strength
Primal Rage = 12/15 at 12 Strength
Dwarven Battle Stance = 10/20 at 12 Strength

If you buff Heart of Fury, you would need to buff all the other classes IAS skills as well.

/unsigned

lilondra · Nov 12, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Ow Magmared stop being such a noob! We all know the broken to the bone class that often sees play just because it has WS needs more buffs! I mean instead of reworking a RAW DAMAGE CLASS we need to buff it to MOAR RAW DAMAGE.Because thats what skill is all about.

Tenebrae · Nov 12, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Woah , what a drawback , being set on fire 3...1 second . No , lets make it loose 15...8....5 HP per second its active for example

.

/notsigned

Desert Rose · Nov 12, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

PvE-only changes:
Heart of Fury - Reduces recharge to 25 seconds.
Whirling Charge - Reduces recharge to 15 seconds.

Unlike sins and warriors, dervishs have no good IAS-skills in PvE. Still not permanent, but more on a par with the usefulness of flail or critical agility.

IronSheik · Nov 12, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Because dervishes don't need any IAS in PvE, IMS does more. Good builds take fast activating skills like mystic's/eremite's/protector's. These when cast in succession don't take the full 3/4s they say they do to activate.

lilondra · Nov 12, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Dervs can crit 100+ damage and can hit more then one foe,they can spam DW every 3 seconds and are F**** brainless.What do you want ? Anet should give them instakill just to make your game more Brainless and easy ?

BlackSephir · Nov 12, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilondra

Dervs can crit 100+ damage and can hit more then one foe,they can spam DW every 3 seconds and are F**** brainless.What do you want ? Anet should give them instakill just to make your game more Brainless and easy ?

But scythe sins can do it better!

Desert Rose · Nov 12, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Good builds take fast activating skills like mystic's/eremite's/protector's.

Even attack skills with a fixed attack speed are influenced by an IAS making sins and warriors better at using a scythe than the dervish itself.
Buffing Heart of Fury and Whirling Charge wouldn't change this, but at least would make them a little more equal in power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilondra

Dervs can crit 100+ damage and can hit more then one foe,they can spam DW every 3 seconds and are F**** brainless.What do you want ?

The best approach would be to completly rework the necromant, assassin, ritualist, dervish and paragon; however, this is highly unlikely to happen.
The second best approach (and more or less what ANet does right now) would be to use a skill split to nerf them in PvP so they are never seriously used but buff them in PvE so that they are nearly equal with the other classes.

jaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

being able to do aoe melee damage with a scythe and having mystic/eremites/prot strike and WS is fine without an ias, dervs dont need one because of this.

as for the argument that crit scythe sins or endurance warriors do it better, id sure as hell hope so because those two classes are nearly PURE melee. yeah there are casters sins, but whatever.

dervs CANNOT be as good as sins or warriors in melee as well as being able to heal almost as well/if not better than a monk.

HawkofStorms · Nov 12, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I still don't understand how making the skill worse makes it better.

lilondra · Nov 12, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

being able to do aoe melee damage with a scythe and having mystic/eremites/prot strike and WS is fine without an ias, dervs dont need one because of this.

as for the argument that crit scythe sins or endurance warriors do it better, id sure as hell hope so because those two classes are nearly PURE melee. yeah there are casters sins, but whatever.

dervs CANNOT be as good as sins or warriors in melee as well as being able to heal almost as well/if not better than a monk.

Even if you are one of the exeptions that is a derv healer then you do either of those things.If you don't know what you are talking about pls don't post.

jaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilondra

If you don't know what you are talking about pls don't post.

clearly you dont understand the concept of balance. the dervish was a-nets repsonse to people wanting to be wammos. this was the caster melee class that people wanted. now people are whining to get versatility + performance equal to that of classes specifically designed to do one thing. so, if people get what they want again, (which would be utterly stupid) and have dervs equal to the two melee classes in melee, then they should have to lose all of their abilities to do other things. if this happened, itd be stupid to play a derv with less armor when you could play a warrior with more.

dervishes are to melee as rits are to healing. since both can do multiple things they cannot be as good as single focus classes in the things they do.

Puebert · Nov 12, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I still don't understand how making the skill worse makes it better.

This suggestion makes the skill significantly better. ~17 second IAS and only take ~1 second of burning? I'll take that over any other Derv IAS.

Regardless, this change is bad because it makes it hands down better than any other derv IAS, so nty.

/notsigned

Axel Zinfandel · Nov 13, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

The problem probably isn't with the dervish skill so much as it's a problem with Critical Agility and scythe sins in general.

Dervish fans are essentially whining because sins do everything better, while having this stupideasy IAS and +armor skill that dervishes can't even match. Nerf that and you fix the threshold. Frankly, I think it should be -armor instead of +.

HoF is perfectly maintainable in builds with Eternal Aura for Forms, and I would MUCH rather see something like Avatar of Balthazar buffed to a much more widely usable, offensive form like it -should- be.

Nevermind the fact that I dislike the idea of hitting more then one enemy in -general-, but you have to expect their to be a downside to being able to do so. Dervishes in most builds can't attack 24/7, and have to buff themselves with enchantments, taking up time and DPS potentiality. This is a perfectly logical downside along with NOT having a maintainable IAS skill.

IronSheik · Nov 13, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

This suggestion makes the skill significantly better. ~17 second IAS and only take ~1 second of burning? I'll take that over any other Derv IAS.
/notsigned

17 seconds at 12 spec mysticism. No dervish uses that high mysticism unless you're stupid and use avatars. Mysticism is useless, sins don't amp up crit strikes just to fuel Crit agility, so why should I amp up my myst for a crappy IAS?

FengShuiDove · Nov 13, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Heart of Fury
10e, 3/4s, 20s

Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, you attack 5...27...33% faster.

Adjust the numbers and add in effects, whatever. Make it one of those enchantments that easily can be kept up, but needs a moderate investment to be worthwhile. With this, just as an example, a secondary Dervish would be wasting a skill slot -- sure it's maintainable but 5% IAS without Mysticism investment. Also, ideally, an investment of 6 or so could get you maybe 16-18%... an easy attribute split with better results than Drunken Master. A 12-10-8 leaves your build wide open to mods, say a Conjure, and gets you over 20% IAS easily maintained.

These are my thinks.