Curse

Lishy · Nov 21, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

In the spirit of the other thread about UW, this one tackles the problem directly.

I'll just be blunt and direct with the problem:
When you die in UW, it is always the npcs or reaper who die first and have the party booted. This is extremely annoying when doing 4H right before fighting Dhuum and the reaper gets spiked faster than the monks can heal.

This happens with way too many quests and not just 4H though. Too many quests require protecting something, and if even one of them dies, you're booted.
They aren't even marked as allies either. So making things worse, it's a pain in the ass to heal them too in the heat of the battle.
This is a flaw with Underworld since it happens so much to the point of annoyance.

So in short, I'll just say that UW needs either a tweak of npcs and enemy movement to make things more fair, or to have some of them auto revive, such as the reaper.

It is elite for a reason. With Aatxes hitting 300, I can completely understand how it is elite. But there is a line between challenging and unfair, to even just plain frustrating.
If you're going to be the typical "It's called elite for a reason", I would like to request you delve into the game design reasons why something like UW is plausible. Especially now with the additions of Dhuum and the skeletons.

The npcs die WAY too easily.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Nov 21, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

A few of the quests need to be fiddled with to make it more appealing to balanced as opposed to permawtfheadsmash.

upier · Nov 21, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Isn't that the point?
I mean, if they'd rez - wouldn't that make the game that much easier for solo-folks?

IronSheik · Nov 22, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

It's not that they die too easy, it's just now it's even harder for balanced groups to do UW, Especially pugs. And without a guild group, it's basically back to how it was, speed clears or nothing.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 22, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

UW should become easier, but it can't be done if speed clears are going to have the larger benefit from such a change. Stuff needs nerfed first.

majikmajikmajik · Nov 22, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

so then make certian NPCs targetable as allies during certain quests or make it just have the reaper appear as NPCs much like a Guild Leader would in GvG.

right? would make it easier, but practical as if it should already be there.

Arduin · Nov 22, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

so then make certian NPCs targetable as allies during certain quests or make it just have the reaper appear as NPCs much like a Guild Leader would in GvG.

right? would make it easier, but practical as if it should already be there.

This already happens. Reaper of the Labyrinth stays in your part panel during the entire UW. The other Reapers and the Spirits that may spawn when a quest is accepted gets added to the party panel, and removed when the quest is completed.

Joe Fierce · Nov 22, 2009, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

A few of the quests need to be fiddled with to make it more appealing to balanced as opposed to permawtfheadsmash.

I can think of two specific doozies in particular.

food for thought, silver dryders have deaths charge, making uw no longer a "core skill" area, why not give sig of disenchanment to one or two of the riders of dhuum, this will prevent sf sins from completing 4H. Then, ease back a touch on servants of grenth a bit to where it's more like it was before and they spawn in a place which doesn't require a gimmick build with 2-3 tanks, and tone down the skeletons of dhuum for the quest. These two changes will make uwsc impossible for sf gimmick heavys and will encourage balanced builds, which is what people say gw is all about.

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

I can think of two specific doozies in particular.

food for thought, silver dryders have deaths charge, making uw no longer a "core skill" area, why not give sig of disenchanment to one or two of the riders of dhuum, this will prevent sf sins from completing 4H. Then, ease back a touch on servants of grenth a bit to where it's more like it was before and they spawn in a place which doesn't require a gimmick build with 2-3 tanks, and tone down the skeletons of dhuum for the quest. These two changes will make uwsc impossible for sf gimmick heavys and will encourage balanced builds, which is what people say gw is all about.

The reason enemies have Core skills is because the area was made when only Core and Prophecies skills were around. There are quite a few Prophecies only skills around too, but nobody gives a damn then do they?

Sig of Disenchantment was once given to Mindflay Spectres (now removed) and everybody got very upset about it.

Servents of Grenth isn't too bad. Needs some planning though.

DragonRogue · Nov 22, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

I can think of two specific doozies in particular.

food for thought, silver dryders have deaths charge, making uw no longer a "core skill" area, why not give sig of disenchanment to one or two of the riders of dhuum, this will prevent sf sins from completing 4H. Then, ease back a touch on servants of grenth a bit to where it's more like it was before and they spawn in a place which doesn't require a gimmick build with 2-3 tanks, and tone down the skeletons of dhuum for the quest. These two changes will make uwsc impossible for sf gimmick heavys and will encourage balanced builds, which is what people say gw is all about.

Agreed to this idea. since the mechanic of proph only skills has been eliminated with the addition of death charge, it opens up all the other skills in the game to now be added. Sig of Dis added around the areas now with any of the monsters is not a bad idea. it allows for perma to not be nerfed and still used, but makes it much much harder for pilaging of this area. even god-mode needs to have a balance.

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

Agreed to this idea. since the mechanic of proph only skills has been eliminated with the addition of death charge,

Starburst is Factions too.

DragonRogue · Nov 22, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Starburst is Factions too.

Addition Correction: And Starburst. lol.

Arduin · Nov 22, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Sig of Disenchantment was once given to Mindflay Spectres (now removed) and everybody got very upset about it.

Everybody? No the Perma SF Planes farmers got upset because they couldn't round up all the Spectres anymore and make ecto showers.

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Everybody? No the Perma SF Planes farmers got upset because they couldn't round up all the Spectres anymore and make ecto showers.

Hyperbole.

1. (uncountable) Extreme exaggeration or overstatement; especially as a literary or rhetorical device.
2. (uncountable) Deliberate exaggeration.
3. (countable) An instance or example of this technique.
4. (countable, obsolete) A hyperbola.

I'm sure you can see that 4 isn't applicable.

MithranArkanere · Nov 23, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

ALL NPCs that do not appear in the party panel should auto-resurrect automatically.

If the NPC is to be protected, like the villagers in Divinity Coast or the Turtles in Gyala hatchery, then hey should appear in the party panel. If do not appear, then either they are unimportant or they must resurrect automatically when there are no enemies around.

And that goes for ALL the game, not just elite or normal missions.

Eluvatar · Nov 30, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

ALL NPCs that do not appear in the party panel should auto-resurrect automatically.

If the NPC is to be protected, like the villagers in Divinity Coast or the Turtles in Gyala hatchery, then hey should appear in the party panel. If do not appear, then either they are unimportant or they must resurrect automatically when there are no enemies around.

And that goes for ALL the game, not just elite or normal missions.

/signed ^^ sounds good to me

Shadowhaze · Nov 30, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I would agree. It's darn frustrating when you go with a balanced team, only to have a npc die on one of the last quests and then you all get booted. There goes two hours down the drain for maybe a few ecto (depends on your luck), which isn't worth it imo if you're trying to go for drops/completion sake. Being with a group of buddies makes it more bearable, but still it's ridiculous.

J I L T · Nov 30, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I don't think the npcs are the problem, it's the monsters. Several quests in UW require your party to split up which isn't a bad thing in fact I like it but the quests need to be adjusted for it. In servants of grenth you have to split up now but only about 5 enemies go towards the frozen king while 30 go to the reaper. They should send an equal number of foes to each npcs.

Also the foes have really crappy builds so they just send huge numbers of them at you which is just ridiculous they should make individual foes tougher but decrease their numbers.

If they make any change allies it should just be to giving them that passive anti spike mechanic togo, mhenlo and those forgotten in foundry have.

Hyperventilate · Dec 01, 2009, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Isn't that the point?
I mean, if they'd rez - wouldn't that make the game that much easier for solo-folks?

I was discussing something similar with some friends a while back.

When a warden dies, I think you should have to visit all the previously visited wardens to revive him. That way, the incentive to keep him alive is still there, but if he died it's not the end of the world. Because who wants to backtrack through x, y and z places just to come back to right where they started?

Disable the warden teleportation to force the player(s) to manually visit each one. Lore-wise they could just say that their forces aren't strong enough to teleport you or something.

It'd still be an inconvenience, but I know that when I'm in the UW, I'd want those wardens to stay alive because going back on a hike through the previously explored areas isn't going to be too fun, just to turn around and come right back to where I was.

zwei2stein · Dec 01, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by J I L T

If they make any change allies it should just be to giving them that passive anti spike mechanic togo, mhenlo and those forgotten in foundry have.

Care to describe it / link to wiki?