Curse

upier · Jan 05, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Current description:
Assassin allegiance skill.
You are Blinded for 5 seconds. For 10 seconds, you gain 7...9 Health regeneration and +40 armor.

What I propose is a PvE shadow step:
5 energy cost, 1/4 sec activation time, 5 sec recharge.
Shadow step to target creature. All foes in the area of target creature are crippled for 1 ... 5 secs.
All your spells are disabled for 5 ... 2 seconds.

Since the target is a creature, rather than foe or ally, this allows the skill to be used offensively and defensively. I am also aware how obscenely overpowered the idea is - but then again, when you can only use 3 PvE skills at a given time, if a skill isn't really good - you'll never use it. And a self-heal just does not do the trick.

Reformed · Jan 05, 2010, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I actually do use this skill and while it may seem useless at first compare it to Feigned Neutrality and suddenly it starts to look pretty good.

@16 Shadow Art, Feigned is going to give you a net of 140hp (+7 for 10) or 168hp if you are running a +20%.

@0-2 Allegiance, Sanctuary provides the exact same healing power.
@11-12 Allegiance, it provides 200hp (+10 for 10) or 220hp if you are running a +20%.

You could also throw Shadow Refuge into the mix here for comparison but it doesn't have an armor buff associated with it. The 5 second blind, extremely easy to remove, is a much nicer drawback than end-on-hit/skill. I'm probably one of 5 people left in GW who doesn't believe in using the allotted 3 PvE skills. If I am messing around A/ or /A and for whatever reason can't work in Refuge then Sanctuary is it. If they get rid of the lousy aftercast to Shadow Steps in PvE I might change my mind.

impulsion · Jan 05, 2010, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Shadow Sanctuary is a very useful skill as it is. Buff something that needs buffing.

Beta Sprite · Jan 05, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I've used Shadow Sanctuary in builds in the past, and it's quite nice. If you absolutely need to hit something, there are ways to remove the blind quick (Plague Touch/Antidote Signet). It's fine as it is.

upier · Jan 05, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I am guessing these were solo builds?

MagmaRed · Jan 05, 2010, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Your description does not match the name of the skill. True, not all skills are named well, but the current skill matches the name quite well. Yours doesn't come close.

Secondly, the cripple isn't terribly useful for 'general' PvE, it sounds more like a farming option. Blind would fit into the skill name better, and still be effective for 'general' play.

And although I do not use (and never have) Shadow Sanctuary, I have seen it used quite a few times. Each time I have seen it used was in a PUG or guild/alliance group, and never did I think the person had a bad build. I questioned the use of a skill that blinds the person using daggers for damage, but I didn't see a problem for the person using it.

Unless you can come up with a reason WHY the skill should be changed, leave it alone.

Warvic · Jan 05, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

1) It's almost the same skill as feigned and the other one.
So a change would be ok
2) It's not bad, it's one of the better self heals so a change is not needed.
3) Your idea looks funny, because you can surpise someone and snare him, so u can attack him.. But u have to wait tho. wich makes it not overpowered. For PvE it's not that good imo.

So I'm not sure about it.

FoxBat · Jan 05, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

This is anet, you know they'd rather make PvE splits of every single shadowstep than make one good pve-only skill.

Reformed · Jan 05, 2010, 05:27 PM // 17:27

The skill has zero drawback on a caster. If you run it in a group as a melee chances are good you will have a cleaner of some type which gives you even more healing given some forms of removal. Being forced to take self condition removal/transfer is also not necessarily a bad thing.

Cuilan · Jan 05, 2010, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

The skill has zero drawback on a caster.

But not mesmers, they need to wand and stuff while they're recharging and waiting for energy.

upier · Jan 05, 2010, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Your description does not match the name of the skill. True, not all skills are named well, but the current skill matches the name quite well. Yours doesn't come close.

Secondly, the cripple isn't terribly useful for 'general' PvE, it sounds more like a farming option. Blind would fit into the skill name better, and still be effective for 'general' play.

And although I do not use (and never have) Shadow Sanctuary, I have seen it used quite a few times. Each time I have seen it used was in a PUG or guild/alliance group, and never did I think the person had a bad build. I questioned the use of a skill that blinds the person using daggers for damage, but I didn't see a problem for the person using it.

Unless you can come up with a reason WHY the skill should be changed, leave it alone.

The point of cripple is simple - in HM where every foe's movement speed is increased, skills that increase the players movement speed are a must if you want to be dealing damage in melee. This skill achieves that by:
1. allowing you to reach the target through the SS
2. allowing you to catch up to foes due to them being crippled

Blind, while absolutely decent, is in no way as good as cripple for melee characters.

The farming issue with it is:
1. solo farming - that is somewhat remedied by the spell-disabling clause (which could be even longer for all I care since the point is to promote dagger combat though the snare - I have no issues with the spell-disable lasting for up to 5 secs or even a decreased cripple.)
2. tank'n'spank - this could be real problem though because it would allow players to jump in fast, slow down everything and set the grounds for an AoE nuke. But then again - this is just an improved shadowstep + Grasping Earth (but having a much bigger range and being much more spammable).

The skill changed could actually be any of the crappy PvE skills, but let's be honest - it's hard to get crappier than a PvE only selfheal. Plus reworking SS forces you into a specific class combo which is also a bit of a restriction.

Wuhy · Jan 05, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

But not mesmers, they need to wand and stuff while they're recharging and waiting for energy.

what. are. you. talking. about.

Xsiriss · Jan 05, 2010, 08:31 PM // 20:31

It's a dam good self heal for casters that doesn't require any attribute points...it's functionality and useage are also quite different for feigned neutrality.

smilingscar · Jan 05, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I think it can stay the way it is. While it may seem overly similar to feigned neutrality, keep this in mind:

1. It's the best self-heal in the pve-skill set
2. It requires no specs. My assassin quite enjoys running around with max critical strikes and dagger master, while still having an emergency self-heal. I'd be quite sad to lose it.

MagmaRed · Jan 05, 2010, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The point of cripple is simple - in HM where every foe's movement speed is increased, skills that increase the players movement speed are a must if you want to be dealing damage in melee. This skill achieves that by:
1. allowing you to reach the target through the SS
2. allowing you to catch up to foes due to them being crippled

Blind, while absolutely decent, is in no way as good as cripple for melee characters.

The farming issue with it is:
1. solo farming - that is somewhat remedied by the spell-disabling clause (which could be even longer for all I care since the point is to promote dagger combat though the snare - I have no issues with the spell-disable lasting for up to 5 secs or even a decreased cripple.)
2. tank'n'spank - this could be real problem though because it would allow players to jump in fast, slow down everything and set the grounds for an AoE nuke. But then again - this is just an improved shadowstep + Grasping Earth (but having a much bigger range and being much more spammable).

The skill changed could actually be any of the crappy PvE skills, but let's be honest - it's hard to get crappier than a PvE only selfheal. Plus reworking SS forces you into a specific class combo which is also a bit of a restriction.

There are lots of ways to deal with the buff monsters get in HM for movement speed. I have not seen Dervishes, Warriors, or Assassins complaining that they can't play HM because they can't catch monsters to hit them. If you need a skill to compensate for poor playstyle there are a lot of them. Assassin skills alone include Shadow Prison, Leaping Mantis Sting, Dash, Horns of the Ox, etc., etc., etc. In other words, if you can't figure out how to target and attack something to be effective, make use of the skills we already have. You want to change a skill many people find effective as it is, simply because you can't snare, knockdown, or chase a foe in PvE easy enough?

Axel Zinfandel · Jan 05, 2010, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuhy

what. are. you. talking. about.

Sarcasm. Mesmer skills generally have a long recharge, so when your done using those skills and recovering energy, the only thing you can do is wand people

lern 2 humor

upier · Jan 05, 2010, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

There are lots of ways to deal with the buff monsters get in HM for movement speed. I have not seen Dervishes, Warriors, or Assassins complaining that they can't play HM because they can't catch monsters to hit them. If you need a skill to compensate for poor playstyle there are a lot of them. Assassin skills alone include Shadow Prison, Leaping Mantis Sting, Dash, Horns of the Ox, etc., etc., etc. In other words, if you can't figure out how to target and attack something to be effective, make use of the skills we already have. You want to change a skill many people find effective as it is, simply because you can't snare, knockdown, or chase a foe in PvE easy enough?

The point of this change would be to create a PvE-only shadow step - a mechanic that is really fun and actually has a point in PvE but can not be experienced fully due to PvP balance issues.
I stated why cripple is a much better option than blind and that's in no way to "compensate for poor playstyle".
I also explained that the reason why I selected Shadow Sanctuary to be remade into this is because the current SS is not only obscenely sub-par, but it's also completely sub-par to what the reworked version would be like.

Tenebrae · Jan 05, 2010, 11:59 PM // 23:59

So basically the point is making it an offensive skill with a little defensive usage. Mmmmm , dont see it ; i think the word "sanctuary" is there because of something. I would give it a buff , something like adding "if you are hexed or under a condition when shadow sanctuary ends , this skill recharges 30% faster" .

Giga_Gaia · Jan 06, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

How about a PvE version of death's charge - you shadowstep to target (friend/foe/both?) and are healed for 50....250 health.

5e 1/4c 10r

Do I win?

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 06, 2010, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Leave it as it is.

1 - What you want to turn it into is a pointless skill.
2 - Making it into a PvE version of Death's Charge is redundant. Assassins are already one of, if not the most, durable classes for general HM PvE.
3 - Shadow Sanctuary is very useful for the Mo/A runner.