Curse

Axeman002 · Dec 23, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

wernt u the people who wanted CoP nerfed...now they done that u want more mes buffs???...whats gonna happen next...6 months down the line wanting sin buffs back?

Trelliz · Dec 23, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

I take Power Return as a N/Me for a cheap, fast-recharging interrupt, has proven very useful several times.

Gun Pierson · Dec 23, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I think in PvE, mesmer skills are very useful as secondary profession. Mainly Inspiration with skills like Power Drain, Leech Signet, Either Signet and a few mantras for 600 and lolwtf signet smite. As a primary they lack the punch to make the difference in a team, especially in HM.

Maybe give mesmers the ability to shine in life degen (illusion) if the cap of -10 regen gets removed and some mesmer spells can do -15 or more and a few aoe life degen spells. Mesmers could potentially become real boss killers and wanted for their aoe damage. The drawback of those skills could be long casting times so Fast Casting becomes more important again.

HellScreamS · Dec 23, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

let's be honest, most classes are terrible for HM general play unless you rely on a secondary profession and pve only skills:

if u only use the skills from primary, almost all classes look like shite
war - defy pain tank? not my cup of tea. apply deep wound to one target? who cares
rang - traps? slow as arse. bow attacks? lol. beast mastery? good luck
mes - hex, degen or rupt 1 target? blows
monk - can pump heals or prots, but heroes and hench play terrible if you play as backline. you can play a rezbot (UA) or ROJ. how exciting.
derv - woo scythe attacks and pbaoe dmg! not.
para - 1 build and it relies heavily on pve skills
sin - sux nuts without SF, or AP caller capabilities

rit - excellent as we know
ele - good array of nukes
necro - MM or discord is decent

mesmer can do many things if you don't limit yourself to having to "play like a mesmer should":
600/smite for farming or running dungeons, FC ele nuker, AP caller for VQing, AP sin spam for VQing, spirit spammer for farming, FC MM, VoR deepfreeze spiker in DoA/Deep/Urgoz, FC ROJ for VSF, FC MoP for FoW, me/a perma using candies for UW, the list goes on...

FC nukes for a cleaner spike, VoR, CoP (used to be meta, still strong)

FC ebon standard or weaken armor

FC meteor shower, meteor, deepfreeze

this pretty much covers up everything ^

akio pwns · Dec 23, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

i think some people here dont realize one buff thats need or changed completly.... mysticism.

FyrFytr998 · Dec 23, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I would just say that interrupting skills should be made NOT timing dependent in PvE due to how fast monster skills cast and recharge. They all should function similar to the skills shame and guilt and diversion. Either that or the mesmer skills should be reworked so that they have less effect but more spammable and allow the mesmer to have a more sustained DPS.

^^This^^

I can understand Rangers needing to time interrupts with their weapons, but I've always felt that mesmers should have spammable hexes that that sit on an enemy until triggered liked the aforementioned skills. While I understand that could possibly be overpowered, I also say that humans don't have the godly reaction times NPC AI have. Throw the Mermers a bone here. I might even make one if this were done. I'd love to have a toon that I can just shut people down with.

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Maybe give mesmers the ability to shine in life degen (illusion) if the cap of -10 regen gets removed and some mesmer spells can do -15 or more and a few aoe life degen spells. Mesmers could potentially become real boss killers and wanted for their aoe damage. The drawback of those skills could be long casting times so Fast Casting becomes more important again.

Whatever you change on the player side can have vast repercussions to monster behavior as well. They already receive sheer numerical advantages and insane reaction time. Give them even more broken skills to play with and we go right back to square one. You can't fix what is fundamentally wrong with Guild Wars by continually upping the ante to "balance" professions out.

I'm not saying Mesmers can't use buff. I am saying don't buff them just to keep them in line with the overwhelming power creep already plaguing the game.

dr love · Dec 23, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

But your post shows you do nto really know strenghts of any classes, or how they are used. Blanket dismissal of physicals (warrior is no1 dps, assassin is no2), claiming that discord on necro is powerfull (no, it is weak sht, only used because as hero build because of how hero ai works)

yes you are right curses is OP and i didn't mention it.

but i must ask how often is warrior or assassin used for dps in high-end pve teams (i.e. speed clear etc)? 'tank, nuker, monk lfg' has been the general organized pve meta since i can remember, being sorrows furnace. the only exception being ursan era (maybe you are accustomed to that) where everyone was a tank and now manlyway spike, but caster spikes are faster and safer. a mesmer can make it onto almost any speed clear team. a warrior cannot, nor can a sin who doesn't use SF (sins are trash in pve without it, idc what anyone says). dervs as of yet, haven't received much spotlight either. rangers got splinter barrage, but again casters can generally pack more damage. rangers most used skill atm is a spirit. paragons are cool in their own way, but they generally are only used for one skill, "save yourselves". mesmers may feel at a disadvantage to eles and necros, but they still have many more options than other classes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Only reason caster spikes set record is because they actually had sf tank to ball everything and spank it, aggro half map and few basic nukes will work faster becuase they can actually hit more than one target, making them fairly efficient, take that sf-balling-tanking ability away and see teams strugge for speed. It is no secret that presf tankways were weeeeery slow compared to physicalways.

feel free to do your physical ways/orders/ursan in DoA and i'll do my obby flesh tank and spank.

Gun Pierson · Dec 23, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Whatever you change on the player side can have vast repercussions to monster behavior as well. They already receive sheer numerical advantages and insane reaction time. Give them even more broken skills to play with and we go right back to square one. You can't fix what is fundamentally wrong with Guild Wars by continually upping the ante to "balance" professions out.

I'm not saying Mesmers can't use buff. I am saying don't buff them just to keep them in line with the overwhelming power creep already plaguing the game.

True, but they can keep the -10 regen cap on players, just remove it from the creeps.

FyrFytr998 · Dec 23, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Whatever you change on the player side can have vast repercussions to monster behavior as well. They already receive sheer numerical advantages and insane reaction time. Give them even more broken skills to play with and we go right back to square one. You can't fix what is fundamentally wrong with Guild Wars by continually upping the ante to "balance" professions out.

I'm not saying Mesmers can't use buff. I am saying don't buff them just to keep them in line with the overwhelming power creep already plaguing the game.

Lulz, this makes me retract my first statement. Totally forgot the monsters would get the buff too, lol. Human caster would NEVER get a spell off then if it weren't timing dependent, lol.

Here. How about making Pain Inverter an AoE spell with a recharge of 10sec.?

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 23, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

The mesmer is fine in PvE. It's the other classes that need nerfing

. Shan has never felt underpowered or useless in any area I played. If anything it's a pleasure to play a class with such potential and interest.

Buffing/nerfing mesmer skills will do nothing except create even more imbalance in pve. If you really want to fix PvE for the mesmer, then it needs to be done for all classes. Here's my humble suggestion
1. Analyse the players skills when forming the instance.
2. Give the monsters skill bars that provide a reasonable counter for those skills.
3. Make mob composition and placement random.

Thats how you make PvE Challenging and varied and make the best use of the skills based combat system.

OFC it's much too late for GW1, but a system such as that above would be great for GW2

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

My suggestion...make it so you can actually deplete monster energy reserves. That's the single biggest advantage they have vs player controlled Mesmers. It seems to me Anet got a little wild with energy pools at some point and decided everything needed to have 20 Energy Storage in addition to whatever else they get.

Schnellburg · Dec 23, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Fast casting is horrible and completely worthless in HM. Then on top of that the other classes get it with a HCT mod on a 40/40 set so its not even unique. Then long cast times like 3 sec backfire negates it completely. FC is BS.

You realize with a 40/40 set you still don't cast as fast a mesmer right...Even then run in DoA with a N/Me in FoCway, and then run the same Me/N Tk bars, and tell me how FC is bullshit. Come back once you have tried that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

VoR doesn't do anything, you are lucky if it even triggers once before the rest of the party kills the mob.

Again, go throw a VoR on an Earth Tormentor, or on a Dementia titan, or a Stygian Hunger, and tell me how VoR doesn't do anything. VoR can single handedly take out a monk/assassin/derv with all of their skill spamming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Mindbender: For 10...15 seconds you have 15 Fast Casting.

Why pay for the cow when the milk is free?

Why waste a skill slot on something that you can spec into for free? Any Mesmer with half a brain with spec atleast 9 into FC. Plus why waste a PvE slot on Mindbender when you can bring EVAS/Pi/Technobabble/etc.

Shadowspawn X · Dec 23, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

The mesmer is fine in PvE. great for

The mesmer is fine in pve if you like to work 5 times harder than everyone else to get 1/3 of the results.

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Why waste a skill slot on something that you can spec into for free? Any Mesmer with half a brain with spec atleast 9 into FC. Plus why waste a PvE slot on Mindbender when you can bring EVAS/Pi/Technobabble/etc.

Who said anything about using it on a Mesmer? P.S. 7 is a far superior break point considering the only thing the primary does is reduce activation time. That leaves you a lot more attribute points to put into places where you really need it, like energy management.

Schnellburg · Dec 23, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Who said anything about using it on a Mesmer? P.S. 7 is a far superior break point considering the only thing the primary does is reduce activation time. That leaves you a lot more attribute points to put into places where you really need it, like energy management.

Considering the title of this thread is Mesmer needs PvE-useful Fast Casting skills (actually, need PvE buff overall), one would think it would be run on a mesmer. As for energy management, it is PvE, you don't need energy management on a mesmer, and if you do, chances are your running a fairly bad bar. GoLE is all you should honestly need, and if worse comes to worse, run Energy Tap.

7 points reduces casting time by 28%, while 9 points takes 33% off. That extra 5% is worth investing in.

upier · Dec 23, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

You realize with a 40/40 set you still don't cast as fast a mesmer right...Even then run in DoA with a N/Me in FoCway, and then run the same Me/N Tk bars, and tell me how FC is bullshit. Come back once you have tried that.

Again, go throw a VoR on an Earth Tormentor, or on a Dementia titan, or a Stygian Hunger, and tell me how VoR doesn't do anything. VoR can single handedly take out a monk/assassin/derv with all of their skill spamming.

Mending is one of the core skills in a 55 build.
Does that make Mending good?
No. It just means it fulfils a role in a farming build.
Same thing with FC.
Play the game normally and FC completely loses it's point.

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Considering the title of this thread is Mesmer needs PvE-useful Fast Casting skills (actually, need PvE buff overall), one would think it would be run on a mesmer. As for energy management, it is PvE, you don't need energy management on a mesmer, and if you do, chances are your running a fairly bad bar. GoLE is all you should honestly need, and if worse comes to worse, run Energy Tap.

7 points reduces casting time by 28%, while 9 points takes 33% off. That extra 5% is worth investing in.

You are spending 20 attribute points for 5% you will never notice. GoLE gives you essentially 2 free spells every 30 seconds. In 30 seconds the fight is over so did you carry your team or did your team carry you? More importantly did they even notice you were there.

BogusDude · Dec 23, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I love my mesmer, theres lots of stuff it can do when you actually learn how to play it properly. Admittedly there are lots of skills that are under used but i'm suprised not to hear any mention of skills like IW, SV/AV, channeling, etc so far. Signet of Illusions is probably one of my most favourite skills in the game, you don't even need to worry about maxing your titles out for alot of the pve skills, SoI will do it for you. Slap SoI on and follow up with some empathy, backfire, pain invertor on someone and see how quick they drop. Lots of potential with mesmer is a fantastic class to play with. 55 mesmer is great fun wether your IW/SV/Mantra of choice or Echo/SoJ with some fast cast or CoP or w/e.

Mesmers aren't dead characters at all just not as appreciated as much as they probably should. They pwned many a day in Urgoz and DoA and still do. The CoP nerf just moved the attention back to Esurge but CoP is still in there.

dr love · Dec 23, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The mesmer is fine in pve if you like to work 5 times harder than everyone else to get 1/3 of the results.

so ele and necro have almost always been preferred over mesmer for pve. mesmer is not the bottom class by far. if you enjoy playing on your mesmer, you can find spots on teams. yes, you may have to prove your worth over an ele or necro (titles, personal cons etc.) but at least you can get a spot.