Curse

Shasgaliel · Jan 13, 2010, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Yeahh, good luck finding friends/guild/alliance who want to play high end areas that aren't about speed clears, which only cover a few classes. I doubt there's even 1 guild left in this game that does elite areas with its members regardless of class or reputation titles and does them for the fun challenge, not speed clears...

There are such guilds even many of them but then people complain about speed and leave....

Arduin · Jan 13, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

what if instead of nerfing Shadowform
to add more that can counter shadowform?
put more things in the eltie areas that can screw permas so it will be an unused skill like ursan is now xD and shadow shroud and signet of midnight Lawl. what if its not the skill thats overpowered but the areas used to farm them in underpowered?

Anet did. Skeletons of Dhuum were added in UW along with Dhuum himself, but speedclears with SF are still viable. Even more, those Skeletons also made it harder for a 'balanced' group. Added pressure at 4 Horsemen for example.

Anet added Dying Nightmares in UW because 55 was deemed a problem there in the past. SF is viable in all Elite Missions and most dungeons. Do you want Anet to tamper with all those areas too only to counter one (1) skill?

Spookii · Jan 15, 2010, 01:44 PM // 13:44

/notsigned

Ursan was OP. Apparently too OP for ANet's OP meter. Enjoy the memories made (lul?) while it was still around.

I would get tired of a game that only gave me a handful of skills to choose from, and with godmode teams like Ursan dominating, that's pretty much what the game turns into.

Shadowhaze · Jan 15, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goddess Of Defense

Ursan actually opened up pug groups again, people don't realize this because they thought it was over powered. It got random people to actually work as a team, to do something they wanted. People could actually do something because the skill was relatively easy to go and get. The problem being is that people wanted r10 to do all the really fun stuff. Now the fun stuff is strictly moved to only what 3 classes allowed? out of the 10 someone suggested we have? Ursan allowed all 10 classes to do something regardless of what skills brought because only 1 skill allowed them to work as a team, not including the healing cookie cutter monks. (that's a different argument) On the brighter hand without Ursan some things put out jobs that people can now run instead of forming a pug and fight their way through... still doesn't bring the players together, now all they do is argue, troll, talk garbage, and play e-peen.

< /valid point >

I'd tend to agree more along these points.

To all those saying it was overpowered, of course it probably was. So is a single profession god-mode that for some odd reason Anet has not bothered to address fully/properly (way to change areas instead of the skill). lol. And also, those saying Ursan was making you play the game a certain way...um you could look at SF the same way.

thedukesd · Jan 18, 2010, 12:34 PM // 12:34

So many people complaining about SF. Never did a speed run in UW, but i tryed to do it with pugs, of course I did it only once and got tired. Why? Well cause even when I did it they let me with the skeletons on my head... SF is far from being a god mod. For those who think it's a god mode well then i sugest you to try to tank in foundry without any bonds on u, let's see how you are doing (nm, no need for hm). If SF is how people say "a god mode" then you will not die there, if it's like I say "far from being a god mode" you will die.
The sin is not the only class that can perma. There is one more class that can maintain SF (only one little condition here).

They want to nerf SF,600/smite... Well probably they think this is the easy solutions. There is another easy solution (add some monsters only skills that remove all enchants (somehow similar to topk regarding rangers) ). You don't even need to add new monsters.

The funny part is that all the hard stuff I did were done with my sin. I have ele,monk (i'm a not so good 600 cause I fail in foundry, and i know why i fail, i just don't have now time to fix the problem),paragon,rit too (ranger is working on survivor so it will not count, warrior is working on legendary defender of ascalon so it will not count). From what I saw almost all of the classes have at least one skill that is way to overpowered.

Someone said about er ele. ER ele can't protect himself from skills that remove enchants.

Read some time ago on this forum someone saying that if u want to do damage in hm go melee way. Well i wish him luck with areas with 50% chance to miss or blind spam and melee way.

They and u are talking about unbalanced skills. Well if we talk about unbalanced skills why not talk about unbalanced areas.
Let's talk about unbalanced "highend areas": veil vs foundry. Veil can be done by noobs, they need dp removal and maybe ress scrolls. Foundry, u need a good team to do it, noobs will destroy everything here.

I bet after they will nerf SF, 600/smite and maybe other skills you will see people complaining about the fact that they can't do gloom in hm (imbagon has major problems to use sy in hm, he miss hits way to much), foundry in hm...

They should decide. Add mobs to stop sc or change the skills. If they do both they have a major problem with the direction in witch they are going. Adding skele in uw to stop sc and then the decision to change sf showed already that they have major problems with the direction in witch they are going.

600/smite/famine team... Smite... can be a total noob. Famine... what's so hard in keeping qz always on?!? The other 2 skills are way to easy to keep on. 600... well he has a hardest job cause he has to recast 2-4 skills on himself (still under what another class farmer build have to do), in foundry well he needs to cast 2 more skills on mobs (only here he is at the same level with the other class farmer build (i'm not talking about the sin))

Ursan.. I don't care about ursan... I don't like it... If you ask me ursan is unbalance like the idea of monks having roj (monk is support class not damage dealing class, the idea of monks having skills doing damage is wrong)...

As much as you want you can't do a balanced game... So there will always be unbalanced skills. And no, GW it's far from being all about SF, 600/smite. And people started to use those builds cause pugs party are bad and have a high rate in failing, this is why i made the sin, cause i got tired of failers. To do parties with guild/alliance you need to have them active, not all of them are active. How many guilds can say they have 8 people on able to do a foundry/gloom hm at any hour without using a perma or 600/smite?

isildorbiafra · Jan 18, 2010, 01:10 PM // 13:10

The relation between Ursan; SF & 600/smite is that like the first; the other two will shortly also get nerfed. ^^

lishi · Jan 18, 2010, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedukesd

So many people complaining about SF. Never did a speed run in UW, but i tryed to do it with pugs, of course I did it only once and got tired. Why? Well cause even when I did it they let me with the skeletons on my head... SF is far from being a god mod. For those who think it's a god mode well then i sugest you to try to tank in foundry without any bonds on u, let's see how you are doing (nm, no need for hm). If SF is how people say "a god mode" then you will not die there, if it's like I say "far from being a god mode" you will die.
The sin is not the only class that can perma. There is one more class that can maintain SF (only one little condition here).

There are 3 counter in the UW for perma.

1) Skeleton of dhuum, they mostly come in group of 1, any assassin can solo one if prepared the terra can solo more, and an a/me can solo any quantity with a wall.
2) charged blackness thanks to cons they can be outrun easy, when they cannot be outrun because they would be in the way for some quest the terra assassin can kill them easly
3) signet of humility, 2 foe in the entire UW have it. and normally they would be dead before they can even use it.

well, that and the traps, you just have to not step on it and if it happen you will not die anyway.

Quote:

They want to nerf SF,600/smite... Well probably they think this is the easy solutions. There is another easy solution (add some monsters only skills that remove all enchants (somehow similar to topk regarding rangers) ). You don't even need to add new monsters.

Hardly easy to change the ever mobs on the game.
Plus it will do the same thing of nerfing 600, so why?

Quote:

The funny part is that all the hard stuff I did were done with my sin. I have ele,monk (i'm a not so good 600 cause I fail in foundry, and i know why i fail, i just don't have now time to fix the problem),paragon,rit too (ranger is working on survivor so it will not count, warrior is working on legendary defender of ascalon so it will not count). From what I saw almost all of the classes have at least one skill that is way to overpowered.

None are on the level of SF.

Quote:

Someone said about er ele. ER ele can't protect himself from skills that remove enchants.

There is very few parts of the game where this is a issue, sure you will lose sometime enchantment, but as long it's not ether renew (cover, kill / stay away from the few mobs who have multiple remove) you will be fine.
Also if one party member lose prot bond, it can be recasted or if under heavy fire still kept alive with just infuse.

Quote:

Read some time ago on this forum someone saying that if u want to do damage in hm go melee way. Well i wish him luck with areas with 50% chance to miss or blind spam and melee way.

Is for that reason people take condition removal hex removal etc.

Quote:

They and u are talking about unbalanced skills. Well if we talk about unbalanced skills why not talk about unbalanced areas.
Let's talk about unbalanced "highend areas": veil vs foundry. Veil can be done by noobs, they need dp removal and maybe ress scrolls. Foundry, u need a good team to do it, noobs will destroy everything here.

DoA is just a bad designed area, but you have to remember the distinction between hard area and bad designed.

Quote:

I bet after they will nerf SF, 600/smite and maybe other skills you will see people complaining about the fact that they can't do gloom in hm (imbagon has major problems to use sy in hm, he miss hits way to much), foundry in hm...

hex can be removed, and the miss rate can be someone mitigated with a high adrenaline gain build. (at least until the team killed enough mob to make it manageable)

Quote:

They should decide. Add mobs to stop sc or change the skills. If they do both they have a major problem with the direction in witch they are going. Adding skele in uw to stop sc and then the decision to change sf showed already that they have major problems with the direction in witch they are going.

Don't see why is wrong changing both

The Drunkard · Jan 18, 2010, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedukesd

So many people complaining about SF. Never did a speed run in UW, but i tryed to do it with pugs, of course I did it only once and got tired. Why? Well cause even when I did it they let me with the skeletons on my head... SF is far from being a god mod. For those who think it's a god mode well then i sugest you to try to tank in foundry without any bonds on u, let's see how you are doing (nm, no need for hm). If SF is how people say "a god mode" then you will not die there, if it's like I say "far from being a god mode" you will die.
The sin is not the only class that can perma. There is one more class that can maintain SF (only one little condition here).

Citing one area that counters SF is not a valid argument. Go look on pvx, and look at how many areas that SF can farm. Then, look at how many dungeons it can solo/dual. Finally, look at all of the team builds that revolve around sins and compare ratio of SF to non-sf builds.

When you reach the conclusion that one skill complete most of the game, how can you not call it god mode? There is no other skill in the game that has the same mitigation SF enjoys, so why would you think that this skill should exist in its current state?

OT: I don't want to see ursan come back ever again until essence of celerity's recharge claused is removed and ursan rage looses the kd. The amount of shutdown an unorganized group can produce with cons is ridiculous.

thedukesd · Jan 19, 2010, 09:14 AM // 09:14

@lishi

"Developer Update - August 2009 PvE and PvP Skill Balances

Selfless Spirit: reduced recharge to 15 seconds; decreased Energy reduction to 3. Functionality changed to: "For 15..20 seconds, spells you cast that target another ally cost 3 less Energy.""

"Developer Update – September 2009 PvE and PvP Skill Balances

Selfless Spirit: increased recharge to 45 seconds."

Does this looks like they have an idea about what they want to do with this skill? First they reduced the cooldown to 15s then they increased it to 45s... (They fixed the bots and the leeching problems in jade quarry? Don't think so. I say jade quarry cause fort is unbalanced (even jade quarry it's unbalanced, but it's way better then fort). And don't say what bots cause when I see the same person getting stuck in me over and over when I stay in a location when he could had avoid me easily then it's a bot. And why not change the effect of leeching vote? Why not autokick a player declared as a leecher from that map? I don't see easy ways to get the rank you need to keep this skill always on, and if you can't do it the ele will always be a better healer or protector then you (the entire idea is not to use an elite skill from other class to keep this skill always on).)

I wanted to give another good argument regarding my afirmation that they have a major problem with the direction in witch they are going.

@The Drunkard probably cause SF is the easy way, but it's not the only way. Maybe SF is faster, or maybe cause people found a way have problems finding others (I said once that every thing discovered makes other things in the same area harder to discover).

Thenameless Wonder · Jan 21, 2010, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I say just try not to tamper too much with this whole skill-problem anyway. Guildwars has been out for 4+ years, its lasted this long. GW2 will come out soon and a lot of people (my guess) is that they will head over to GW2 and stop playing GW. Im sure people will still play Guildwars but after 4 years they have probably seen enough of it, it will never be as good as it was. I do think some change should be made, shadowform is like an easy button. I have to admit i use it for soosc sometimes and used to do uwsc before the dhuum nerf. I like shadowform, only because its a solo-farming tool. I don't have to assemble an alliance of team-mates or guildes to farm an elite area to play the game. This is the part of shadowform that i like; you can use it solo and it encourages pug's. Like for any dungeon speedclear, just learn your part and you can pug. Thats the fun about MMORPG's right? If too much work is involved to get a balanced team to do a 70 min HM run of Boogroots (dont know if its a good or bad time) then the game loses its replay and fun value. Shadowform saves guildwars because of its convenience to pick-up and play with people. What it fails at is that its basically a god-mode. With this god-mode people make millions farming ectos and shards and whatever and have bots do this 24/7 because its easy to program; hit skills 1-2-3 wait 24 sec repeat... I do like shadowform on aspects of fun and relative easiness, but it sure kills the economy and distrupts grind on so many levels. 600/smite, 55, other builds are not really an issue to me. I dont even know why anet is really thinking about hampering with these. Guildwars is about to be a game with fun creative builds to use. Now immediately i think of gimmick builds like speedclears and all that but without the innovation of the 55 monk or 130 dervish, you have to admit, guildwars would not be as fun as it is. People live to just have fun playing wacky and inntuitive in games like these. killing this will just make pug's much more harder to come by, reduce fun/playabality, aim guildwars more at the hardcore players who are used to playing the game at a higher/less fun difficulty level, and will just imo really hurt the game.