Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 09, 2010, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Those of us who play (or played for a long time) the unwanted professions tend to prefer H/H anyways. Buff heroes. Give them PvE skills. Raise the limit.

Team Spirit · Jan 09, 2010, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I like the fact that Ursan Blessing made every class able to join group for farming, and openning PUG teams. One of my favorite skill, bring it on.

Killerminds · Jan 09, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Spirit

I like the fact that Ursan Blessing made every class able to join group for farming, and openning PUG teams. One of my favorite skill, bring it on.

Dont take this the wrong way but your kind needs to understand that if you want every class to be able to PuG, than we need an actual Skill Update and not ursan.

mathiastemplar · Jan 09, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

What do you need Ursan for anyways.. There are lots of stronger builds..

/nothanks Ursan...

gg

Dobermann · Jan 09, 2010, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Ursan doesn't need a buff, but PuGs do.

I'm curious what the reasoning is behind giving Ursan a 300 second recharge.

For my opinion on the topic of Ursan Blessing, see Shayne Hawke's post.
Addendum: There were actually 2 classes, U/lolwut and Mo/.

a 300 seconds recharge would mean people would have to rush and be on the move and rush around, thus leading them to make mistakes and fail.

I would like to see ursan return because sadly i never had high enough ranks on other chars and now the only way ive ever seen the uw is behind a perma, ive never seen what the monsters there are TRULY capable of, because 99% of skills are negated by shadowform.

bsoltan · Jan 09, 2010, 08:03 PM // 20:03

I agree with everyone saying that if you want 1 PvE skill to be buffed so all professions use the same skill for doing everything the answer is to work on the other skills that make each professions individual and allow them to play on that level.

Giving everyone a press 123 'god' mode isn't the answer to anything and certainly won't help the game.

Skawtt · Jan 09, 2010, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I remember long ago when people used to form balanced groups.

reaper with no name · Jan 09, 2010, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Ursan suffers from a similar problem as SF; it removes the purpose of playing certain professions.

There was absolutely no benefit to be, say, a Ritualist or Mesmer Ursan. A Necromancer Ursan was better in every way. Warriors and Rangers also had advantages that other Ursans lacked, without anything to balance it out.

Ursan didn't remove class discrimination; it made it worse.

Steps_Descending · Jan 09, 2010, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Ursan is nearly as powerful as it was before the "nerf", people are just too dumb to realise this.

Let's see, they changed the attribute, but that is pointless if energy isn't important
They changed the armor, on a warrior, a 80 al is quadruple damage from al-affected source. That one probably made it a lot weaker in certain zones.
THey changed the duration, the best part of the nerf : it doeesn't weaken the skill, but it makes it impratical. You have a couple more loops to jump through before using it. Or you have severe and not-so-controllable downtimes.

Looking back, ursan got one of the best nerf ANet did.

Lishy · Jan 09, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Last I recalled people only wanted Paragons to be ursan because of the infinite energy..

maxxfury · Jan 10, 2010, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I take ursan for a laugh sometimes on trip with guildies. Its funm in an odd kind of way.

Tho id much rather see every class be balanced in such a way that they all have a place in a party in their own unique way. LOL ill be waiting a long time eh? :P

Ursanway way broken, less broken than sf (with or without cryway before that was nerfed too) but still needed to be shit canned. Gone for the better.

jazilla · Jan 10, 2010, 03:15 AM // 03:15

It makes me laugh to see people all angry that ANET decided to make this game accessible to a lot of people with the introduction of PvE only skills. It's simple: You want to run builds that are more balanced but make the game harder to complete? Then run it old school. What do you care if people you consider "noobs" are running SF/600/Ursan? You don't have to. They made EOTN with everyone in mind.

Steps_Descending · Jan 10, 2010, 04:14 AM // 04:14

EDIT : maxfury said it all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

What do you care if people you consider "noobs" are running SF/600/Ursan? You don't have to. They made EOTN with everyone in mind.

It makes me laugh to see people not getting that the meta is dictated by PuGs, and thus will alway use the path of least resistance, which mean the most easy/OP/godmode skill. So, yeah: we HAVE to. Some people would rather not play with people in a meta made for idiots. Wait! not true : Some people would rather not play with people in a meta made for lazy/greedy or just plain bad.

REEDIT : there's also the fact that there IS a problem when the easiest path also weilds the most reward. Another point that says we have to.

jazilla · Jan 10, 2010, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

EDIT : maxfury said it all.

It makes me laugh to see people not getting that the meta is dictated by PuGs, and thus will alway use the path of least resistance, which mean the most easy/OP/godmode skill. So, yeah: we HAVE to. Some people would rather not play with people in a meta made for idiots. Wait! not true : Some people would rather not play with people in a meta made for lazy/greedy or just plain bad.

REEDIT : there's also the fact that there IS a problem when the easiest path also weilds the most reward. Another point that says we have to.

The meta may be run by that, but balance is always an option. You don;t have to use PvE only skills. In fact, you could be cool and not use them. It doesn't matter. Who does any areas in a group with a PUG is what I am wondering?

Life Bringing · Jan 10, 2010, 07:17 AM // 07:17

K, so Ursan was infinitely more broken than SF ever was. For one, any standard ursan group could roll through any elite area with no preparation, no knowledge of the area, and a trained monkey rolling their face across the keyboard. SF, while being OP, actually takes some degree of knowledge, strategy, and team composition to clear shit.

You say Ursan eliminated class discrimination, except that's bullshit. The only classes taken into the better Ursan groups were warriors, paragons, sometimes rangers, and monks. Stacked on class discrimination was rank discrimination. If you didnt have 10/8, you weren't getting into a DoA group. Hell, even the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing NPF had a rank discrimination.

Beverly heals · Jan 10, 2010, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Those of us who play (or played for a long time) the unwanted professions tend to prefer H/H anyways. Buff heroes. Give them PvE skills. Raise the limit.

Buffing heroes.... useless they are way too powerful already.

Ursan is still good the way it is. The only good point about was that the only discrimination while pugging was your Norn rank.

Today, according to some ppl (well most of it) nothing can be done without a SF sin.

In general PVE skills become too cheated. PI for instance is too powerful and should be limited to 1 character per group. 1 shooting a boss (with smart placement and use of course) is lame.

Ursan was nerfed because of it was at the origin of "speed clears"... now only SF is still keeping this going.

You cannot Sc anything as a 600/smite (i mean by that , 11mins runs in fow or anything).

So to conclude SF should be re-touched...
and some PVE skills too

the_jos · Jan 10, 2010, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

You say Ursan eliminated class discrimination, except that's bullshit. The only classes taken into the better Ursan groups were warriors, paragons, sometimes rangers, and monks. Stacked on class discrimination was rank discrimination. If you didnt have 10/8, you weren't getting into a DoA group. Hell, even the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing NPF had a rank discrimination.

This is not entirely true.
You speak about 'the better Ursan groups', which can go two ways.
The first and small group are the group of very good players who abuse game mechanics. They don't need Ursan to do stuff, they can play without it. For them Ursan only speed up the process.
Then there was the large group of PUG players. Those players at first would accept about every profession but would at later time 'demand' certain classes and high ranks.

The problem began when DoA and other areas were not only played anymore, but mainly farmed. And in farming speed is everything. Being as failsafe as possible while having good speed is what counts.
You see the same now with SF. It's not about gameplay, it's about farming.
Players with regular builds always had problem to enter the high-end areas, entering with a farming build was and is much easier.

Many players don't see this. They see people 'play' the area and they are unable to access the teams. They are told to get other professions, other builds. This makes them talk about discrimination, everyone should be able to enter.
However, we've also seen what happens if the farming teams move on. Empty outposts. But at least you don't see any more discrimination ....

If people want an environment where they can play without (much) discrimination they should find themself a nice group of friends or a decent guild. There is no way PUG play will be without discrimination, specially in farming areas.

Milennin · Jan 10, 2010, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

PUGs are bad. Haven't always been, but they have been for a LONG time. The reason is people have stopped learning how to play. With the addition of heroes and over powered builds that require little interaction from the player, even a monkey can play PvE effectively. If you want to play with all 10 classes and be effective you do not look for PUGs, but you use guild/alliance/friends.

Yeahh, good luck finding friends/guild/alliance who want to play high end areas that aren't about speed clears, which only cover a few classes. I doubt there's even 1 guild left in this game that does elite areas with its members regardless of class or reputation titles and does them for the fun challenge, not speed clears...

Dobermann · Jan 10, 2010, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

K, so Ursan was infinitely more broken than SF ever was. For one, any standard ursan group could roll through any elite area with no preparation, no knowledge of the area, and a trained monkey rolling their face across the keyboard. SF, while being OP, actually takes some degree of knowledge, strategy, and team composition to clear shit.

You say Ursan eliminated class discrimination, except that's bullshit. The only classes taken into the better Ursan groups were warriors, paragons, sometimes rangers, and monks. Stacked on class discrimination was rank discrimination. If you didnt have 10/8, you weren't getting into a DoA group. Hell, even the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing NPF had a rank discrimination.

DUnno where u was cos i did looooooooooooads of doa ursanway with mesmers eles ritualists lol.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 10, 2010, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

If people want an environment where they can play without (much) discrimination they should find themself a nice group of friends or a decent guild. There is no way PUG play will be without discrimination, specially in farming areas.

1) Is interested in doing the same areas that you are.
2) Does them at times that are viable for you.
3) Is someone you can get along with.

Pick two.

It wasn't always this way, but that was when Guild Wars was alive.

Heroes, by the way, get all three, and would solve this little problem completely, but ArenaNet still sees fit to limit the amount we can bring and not permit PvE skills on them.