Curse

Pugs Not Drugs · Jan 20, 2010, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I'm sorry if this has been posted before. I thought of it earlier today, and a quick search showed no similar threads.

If I remember correctly, heroes and henchmen act like regular players and they take a portion of your drops. Now that is OK because they are members of your party like any real player would be. However, you don't have to pay for the equipment of regular players, like you do with your heroes. So I propose that the hero armor scaling be removed. Instead, any items your heroes pick up should be sent to a special hero fund section in the Xunlai Chest. From there, you can buy armor, weapons, and runes only for your heroes. The money cannot be spent anywhere else.

What do you guys think?

NOTE For those people who say that doing this would only encourage H/H, just remember that Guild Wars is pretty much dead. Nothing A-Net could do now would bring back the old pre-Ursan Guild Wars, apart from an extremely radical change. And since A-Net is has taken around a year to nerf one skill, I highly doubt there will be many major changes in the future of GW1. So just let us H/H'ers enjoy what we have.

EDIT Had a few grammar errors

X Ghoul · Jan 20, 2010, 02:19 AM // 02:19

I highly doubt heroes need expensive runes since mine have none and I was able to do guardian and vanquishing with h/h easily. Armor< they have max its just a matter of taste. and weapons just give them /bonus weapons or just any cheap item you find on the floor.

Gennadios · Jan 20, 2010, 02:50 AM // 02:50

I wouldn't let my heroes go un-runed, but just about any hero can be serviceably equipped with 1.5k worth of runes or so.

It's kind of a pain and creating new chars gets expensive, but look at it as giving money to nubs that 1) won't get bored and go dormant in 1-2 weeks, and 2) actually will get better with time.

MagmaRed · Jan 20, 2010, 03:07 AM // 03:07

1) You don't have to pay for hero equipment. What they start with and NO RUNES makes them better than hench due to the fact you can select their build and manage their skill use.

2) What drops for you that gets sold to the merchant would make a SMALL amount of money. Typically 2k at most, and can be given to the heroes. Yet, as I stated in point 1, they do not need ANYTHING to be more effective than hench.

I have every hero on 10 characters, I have 1 storage character with 12 heros, and about 3 characters with 4-8 heroes (on 2 accounts). I have spent roughly 5k total on ALL of my heroes weapons, runes, and insignias. I have 4 characters with COMPLETELY outfitted heroes ('perfect' weapons, runes, and insignias), and few of my characters have heroes without at least average equipment.

If I thought it was actually hard to get things, I'd agree, but it is not. If you want to BUY things for your heroes, fine, but it is hardly needed.

Scorpionwitch · Jan 20, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

I have most of the heroes on all 9 of my characters. I find that I really only use a select few all the time. I dumped some money into outfitting those with max stuff and most of their weapons and runes were chest drops anyway. Set aside a storage pane and dump whatever drops you find that may be "hero useful" in there. As you collect runes, mods, etc. then upgrade as you go. Kinda like the hero bank you're talking about except with items instead of gold and its not automatic.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 20, 2010, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Not that costly to upgrade, particularly if you just play one character.

I'd rather see seven-hero parties and that wonderful tactics system from the other thread.

Yuna Matsumarui · Jan 20, 2010, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

...

I have every hero on 10 characters, I have 1 storage character with 12 heros, and about 3 characters with 4-8 heroes (on 2 accounts). I have spent roughly 5k total on ALL of my heroes weapons, runes, and insignias. I have 4 characters with COMPLETELY outfitted heroes ('perfect' weapons, runes, and insignias), and few of my characters have heroes without at least average equipment.

If I thought it was actually hard to get things, I'd agree, but it is not. If you want to BUY things for your heroes, fine, but it is hardly needed.

superior vigor = 19k.
major vigor = 3k

seems pretty hard to believe.. finding 4-8 x 5x survivor's insignia = 4-8x 5 = 20-40 x 950g. you're obviously not having your heroes @ optimal.

---

anyways, yes: heroes are expensive.
what do you get in return?
probably 6 energy every 15 seconds for your necromancers (which everybody seems to use these days)

and not to forget, additional health.. my heroes all have around 590-630 health, meaning they can survive longer, meaning your healers have more time to catch up with spikes.

Quote:

Gennadios said:I wouldn't let my heroes go un-runed, but just about any hero can be serviceably equipped with 1.5k worth of runes or so.

with a rune of major vigor being 3k and every survivor's insignia being 900-1k each from the rune trader.

Quote:

yes, I would say heroes are expensive

Quote:

X Ghoul said: I highly doubt heroes need expensive runes since mine have none and I was able to do guardian and vanquishing with h/h easily.

I'm also experiencing troubles believing this. I've done the Borrguus Blisterbark bounty HM a couple of days ago, and he hit for +- 500 damage on me as a 60 armor target. that's an instant wipe if your party is unruned and near eachother.

now you will say: then learn to flag ur heroes nub. but your melee (minions) will always mob, and most of the time your casters will as well.

I don't like heroes being expensive, but adding a free gear for heroes system would make stuff way too easy, once you get your first team setup, you're free to farm stuff for your other heroes. also, once you've completed 1 campaign you should have made enough money to armor 3 heroes.

my calculations:

major vigor 3.1k x 1
rune of vigor 600g x 3
rune of minor primairy attribute 1-2k x 1
rune of minor attribute 100-1k
survivor insignia 950 x 5

3100+1800+1500+500+4750= 11650g

I agree, this can be seen as alot of money for players starting to do HM for the first time, but it's definately worth it. I use greens for my heroes as weapons, which are about 1-5k each (most about 2k) so those aren't that expensive as well.

I'd recomment you to get a main. I used to character swap alot between my monk, ranger, mesmer and paragon. now I've decided I'm GWAMM'ing on my mesmer, so I've removed all runes and equipment from the armors of the heroes on my other character, except for the basic Discord/Sabway runes, to occasionally play with them. didn't save me money since I'd already bought them, but it's basically recycling.

besides, most player run either
N/-Rt healer
N/-Rt-Mo Minion Master
N/Rt Curses Rt/* SoS Channeling rit.

this would cost approxiomately 30k to get, which can be achieved by simply playing the game.

now, If you like to play with other heroes, such as warriors, rangers etc. then it's gonna cost you alot more since you need to equip your basic setup (3x N) and those heroes.

I'd suggest greens, and UW farming.

Gill Halendt · Jan 20, 2010, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

I'm also experiencing troubles believing this.

I have 16 characters on my primary account.

Out of those, only the heroes of my main Warrior got runes and perfect weapons, altough they're all collector/crafter weapons.

Every other character had to do with /bonus equipment only.

I've been playing my Mesmer, my Ritualist and one of my Rangers in HM in the last few months after achieving GWAMM on the Warrior. Un-runed heroes didn't prevent me from getting Legendary Guardian on each of them, Legendary Vanquisher on the Mesmer, Legendary Survivor on the Ranger (without any XP farming). I tend to favour efficiency over efficacy when setting up my heroes' skillbars and bonus weapons also help a lot. That's about it. Sure, I'm wasting some of their potential, but I don't really care, since I still have little problem getting things done.

So, it's not THAT easy nor adviceable, but sure IT IS possibile.

vBeryl · Jan 20, 2010, 02:54 PM // 14:54

For runes and insignias, save everything you get and upgrade your heroes as you get them.

For shields and weapons, go help yourself do the wisdom title, buy a ton of unid golds and equip your heroes with whatever you bought.

Despite that, I'd like this to be implemented so I can easily manage my storage tabs and mod my heroes at the same time.

Riot Narita · Jan 20, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

superior vigor = 19k.
major vigor = 3k

seems pretty hard to believe.. finding 4-8 x 5x survivor's insignia = 4-8x 5 = 20-40 x 950g. you're obviously not having your heroes @ optimal.

Why hard to believe? Magmared and others make good points. I have several main characters, and their heroes are all fully outfitted and runed... but I didn't spend a lot of gold on them. I spent a lot of time instead.

They all started out "non-optimal", if they were lucky they got some junk I had in storage. They were still way better than henchmen, because of the skills and synergies I could give them. As time went by, I upgraded them using stuff that dropped... I made collector weapons using trophies that were easily farmed... I gave them useful runes, insignias etc I salvaged.

Major/Superior vigor runes... nice, but not necessary. Mine did fine with minor vigor or no vigor. I only upgraded them when I discovered margonite farming in Turai's Procession (when Splinter Weapon hit "all adjacent")... and then I had more Superior Vigor runes than I knew what to do with. And I didn't even start that til after loot scaling. I put sup vigor on every possible hero, even ones I never bring in the party - since doing so saved on storage space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

Borrguus Blisterbark bounty HM a couple of days ago, and he hit for +- 500 damage on me as a 60 armor target. that's an instant wipe if your party is unruned and near eachother.

No, it's an instant wipe if your party didn't have any prot skills, armour buff skills, interrupts etc. If your party is letting that much damage through, it doesn't matter whether they survive the first blast, the second will still be fatal... and runes aren't going to save you.

The OP sounds like removing the need to do anything to end up with fully equipped heroes. Just run through primary missions/quests and hero fund will be full. I personally think players should have to put some time/thought/effort into upgrading their heroes... I see it as a major part of "playing the game" and developing your characters. So, /notsigned

Captain Bulldozer · Jan 20, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

While I understand the OP's reasoning, and don't completely disagree, I'm going to have to "/not sign." The reason is simple. Even though I'm all for equipping heroes with good runes etc. (I have 18 chars over 2 accounts, and have spent more than a million total equipping heroes, not to mention finishing all or most campaigns with each character so as to reap the green weapon rewards for heroes), the GW economy is set up in such a way that without enough gold-sinks the play experience is worsened.

So spending money on runes and insignia for heroes is an important gold-sink... it helps take a decent amount of in game gold out of service, slowing the rate of inflation. Adding more gold to the economy (even if it's just for the sake of heroes equipment) would only make the desireable items cost larger and larger amounts of gold. As some items are already considered more valuable than the maximum amount that can be traded, we don't need that to get worse.

Gennadios · Jan 20, 2010, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

TL/DR

I'm not sure if anyone ever told you... but the hero battles are gone. There's no reason to plop a sup. vigor on any hero.

Aside from that, that kind of min/maxing is completely unnecessary, and if you depend on those kinds of runes to succeed... well, check their builds b/c the heroes likely suck.

Blessed, Herald's, Dreadnaught's, Scouts, Anchorite's, Undertaker's, and Prodigy's insignia all go for 100g at the rune trader and will do their job just as well as those survivor's you've been wasting insane amounts of money on.

As far as runes go, the prices of a few of them will go into the 1k's... get the most expensive one as a +2, those always go for 100g, and then +1 the next cheapest ones. Vitaes will work quite well in the leftover slots.

The Drunkard · Jan 20, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

NOTE For those people who say that doing this would only encourage H/H, just remember that Guild Wars is pretty much dead. Nothing A-Net could do now would bring back the old pre-Ursan Guild Wars, apart from an extremely radical change. And since A-Net is has taken around a year to nerf one skill, I highly doubt there will be many major changes in the future of GW1. So just let us H/H'ers enjoy what we have.

Just remember that your opinion is not a fact.

OT
/notsigned
Your idea makes no sense. Since you can give heroes your customized weaps or runes, why would you want to create a seperate storage section for them? It's not like the collectable weapons can't be used either from killing mobs, so the only thing I see from this suggestion is a desire to gear up a team from laziness.

Also, why are people commenting like they can only get runes from the trader? PLAY THE DAMN GAME! Aside from the vigor runes there should be NO REASON why you can't gear up most of your heroes from playing/farming.

darkknightkain · Jan 21, 2010, 06:04 AM // 06:04

I think that's too complicated.

I'd rather keep it more simple, like make the J menu also usable for PvE Heroes.
Whatever Runes or etc you want to use for Heroes just unlock them via Balthazar Factions (the same way as unlocking Hero skills).