Curse

Cuilan · Nov 19, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

then keep on wanding cause your skills are recharging.

While I think recharge times should be lowered, I think you should continue to learn how to play mesmer or think about maining something more simple. Surely you'll get good at it if you keep trying.

Ugh · Nov 19, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Rangers

1. Rangers excel in applying condtions, interruptting, and surviving. But in PvE, conditions like bleeding, crippled, and poison are pretty useless (burning's okayish but it's still better applied by eles). Faster casting and quick deaths make interrupting much less useful, and survival is better focused on by the monks.

2. Beast Mastery still sucks, Traps have always sucked, and while Nature Rituals have great potential, most of them are absolutely useless or impractical.

3. Their only worthwile elites are Barrage (which can be better used by Rits) and BHA.

4. A large portion of skills are terrible (Practiced Stance, Called Shot, Punishing Shot, etc, etc, etc). Also, Expert's Focus and Melandru's Assault are broken.

Daesu · Nov 20, 2009, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

That's hypocritical. And also I see eles running out of energy all the time in PvE. While I do think Inspiration should be improved, you clearly have the same problem those elementalists have.

And Inspiration is improved enough, it would be exploited by secondary mesmers which is what we dont want.

Quote:

Then don't run out of energy.

Give us a fast recharge energy management skill like spirit siphon or something like soul reaping. Otherwise mesmers are still viable but just not as powerful as some other caster classes.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 20, 2009, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

(burning's okayish but it's still better applied by eles)

If the elementalist is not doing one of these two things:

- Wards
- Blind spam

Then the elementalist is doing it wrong.

Cuilan · Nov 20, 2009, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And Inspiration is improved enough, it would be exploited by secondary mesmers which is what we dont want.

That's assuming they don't figure a way to prevent that.

Elementalists are the most awesome heal/protters I've played with.

Lishy · Nov 20, 2009, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Give Dervish the Dhuum hax skills and maybe they might be back in the game :x

draxynnic · Nov 20, 2009, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Well Mesmers need a PvE Buff in terms of AoE hexes/effects and skills recharge not in damage but its my opinion.

I'd largely agree with this assessment. Mesmer skills aren't bad... the first time they're used. They're just not so good at being able to affect a group in a consistent manner... and if you're going to use AP to compensate for long recharge times, you might as well go the whole hog and spam PvE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Now let us talk about Dervishes. The pet class of Arena Net, the class they absolutely adore and love. For that reason alone, how can one say they need buffing? Dervishes gain energy when enchantments end on them, whether its ones they've cast someone else doing it, its a powerful form of fuel. A monk spamming Patient Spirit on a Dervish between fights and even during fights can allow the Dervish to continue fueling those powerful high energy abilities.

Compare the Dervish to a warrior running Warrior's Endurance (and, thus, having access to other Strength skills, the Strength passive effect, and more armour at the cost of an elite...) with a scythe, or an Assassin simply running with hit Critical Strikes with a scythe. The Dervish is weeping into its cups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercilessmike

At least one of the problems here is in determining what role a dervish is supposed to play.
Is it a tank? Well, it can be, but warriors have the advantage of higher armor, etc.
Is a derv supposed to be dps based? Again, yes, but assassins do better...
What else is left for a dervish, healing? Well we all know ER eles and monks/rit/necro can easily do better there too.

Point blank area of effect damage.

But a WE warrior can run that better due to having better energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthon

2. Mesmer shutdown prevents far less damage per resource cost (particularly skillslot and attribute costs) than things like SY!, PS, Enfeebling Blood, etc.

Mesmers are, in a word, crap at shutting down physicals. Best physical shutdown in the game is probably Blinding Surge, but that requires an elementalist elite. Enfeebling Blood is weaker, but much more convenient to bring (an optimised group is probably already bringing at least one necro, likely two).

Caster shutdown is based mainly on interrupts and hexes with long-ish cast times. Good luck getting either in before the nuke from a HM elementalist boss lands and wipes the party. SY! and PS are not only more convenient, but usually much more reliable too - however nice it is to see an entire mob take a packet of armour-ignoring damage from CoF or Mistrust.

Meanwhile, the damage options are pretty much universally weaker than what the Necro has. In fact, the Necro has the most powerful versions of what might otherwise have been the Mesmer's damage speciality (Spiteful Spirit, Spoil Victor...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And Inspiration is improved enough, it would be exploited by secondary mesmers which is what we dont want.

Do to it as was done to the "Glowing" Elementalist spells - double-link them to Fast Casting so they are most efficient when used by a Mesmer primary.

drkn · Nov 20, 2009, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

While I think recharge times should be lowered, I think you should continue to learn how to play mesmer or think about maining something more simple. Surely you'll get good at it if you keep trying.

i suggest you to try playing other classes instead, to see the great gap between primairy mesmers and most other classes in general pve. whatever a mesmer can do in pve, another class can do better/faster/cheaper/more times/with more damage. oh, wait, we can res other members fast due to fc bonus, so no need to carry mindbender or rock candies. cool!

Tenebrae · Nov 20, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Do to it as was done to the "Glowing" Elementalist spells - double-link them to Fast Casting so they are most efficient when used by a Mesmer primary.

Critical hit
Double linking some skills to its main prof main att is one of the best balance tools ever made imo. They MUST do it more often instead breaking skills ( cough cough *shadowofhaste* cough ).

There are profs with "weak" main att like mesmers and rits but rits now have less "weak points" than mesmers so thats why i said "mesmers , without a doubt" .

Daesu · Nov 20, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

That's assuming they don't figure a way to prevent that.

One obvious way to prevent that would be to place the more powerful energy management skills in Fast Casting or to make Fast Casting more useful (e.g. having some energy return when you cast a spell for each X level of FC or something like that).

Making FC useful would make primary mesmers more useful and more balanced against necros and rits.

Simply buffing the inspiration line would not help primary mesmers. Alternatively, go with suggestions above on double linking to the FC line but that sounds more complex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Since most casters run 40/40 sets I fail to see how FC is worse than spawning power.

Sounds like you are agreeing with me. Since most casters run 40/40 sets, FC for the primary mesmer, is a little redundant.

qvtkc · Nov 20, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Assassin

Pandora's box · Nov 20, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

If the elementalist is not doing one of these two things:

- Wards
- Blind spam

Then the elementalist is doing it wrong.

Depends on how your team is build. Ele's can perform very well with only 1 ele skill: Aura of restoration. And the rest in 2nd profession, making good use of the enormous amount of energy to spamm spells. Ele/necro is a good example. Along with Demonic Flesh and Parasitic Bond the Ele almost becomes a tank spamming life stealing spells. But also other combo's, e.g ele/rit or ele/monk work perfect... With only AoR as ele spell.

Assyrian · Nov 20, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

if they made it 10 man teams there would jus tbe more sins in each group.

BUFF WARRIORS PL0X

PvE+PvP

Dervish Kid · Nov 20, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Dervs..at least buff VoS (strength) and give back the old Mystic regen. for unlimited enchants. And I'll be fine.

acastillo666 · Nov 20, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

warrior with out a doubt. my warrior only goes on manly way runs and random pve stuff. i wish their tanking abilitiys could rival other tanks.

warriors is imo the best HH character avalible. u can do everything regarding guardian and vanquishing with a warrior, pimped out heros, and general knowledge of the game and enemys u encounter. as for grouping with players its kinda hard to get into high end areas now-a-days.

Tenebrae · Nov 21, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Are all ppl that are saying that warriors need a buff in pve trolling ? . Seriously , this isnt a joke thread and some ppl are bringing good points about disadvantages of some classes .... for god sake , "Warriors" and "Necros" are not allowed names here for the "need pve buff" slots ...

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Assassins, after a radical functionality change to Shadow Form.
With a neat buff, they would whine losing their preciousss Shadow Form, but they (may) whine less if they have new things to try like the ones they gave to Ritualists.

The Drunkard · Nov 21, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Sounds like you are agreeing with me. Since most casters run 40/40 sets, FC for the primary mesmer, is a little redundant.

FC allows you to get spells off quickly in other weapon sets, instead of relying on 40/40s. FC also stacks with HCT

Unless you give the FC line a super-energy skill, buffing inspiration would bring is going to give other primaries more energy management than they should have (though I never really had a problem with boon prots)

Daesu · Nov 22, 2009, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

FC allows you to get spells off quickly in other weapon sets, instead of relying on 40/40s. FC also stacks with HCT

Unless you give the FC line a super-energy skill, buffing inspiration would bring is going to give other primaries more energy management than they should have (though I never really had a problem with boon prots)

HCT already halves the casting time of your spells which is equivalent to a level 15 FC. With the minor conditions, that it happens only 40% of the time and it doesn't affect signets.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fast_casting

My point is, why would I waste maxing FC and a major FC rune to get FC to level 15, when I can achieve almost the same thing with equipment? Maxing FC is just not worth it.

40% of the time with a level 15 FC triggering is good enough for me for 0 investment of FC attribute. I usually just pump excess attribute points into FC. Besides, on your point on FC stacking with HCT, I believe there is a hard limit on how much total fast casting animation you can get but that is a minor point to me even if there isn't.

Agree with you that simply buffing inspiration line is not going to work.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 22, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Rangers
2. Beast Mastery still sucks, Traps have always sucked, and while Nature Rituals have great potential, most of them are absolutely useless or impractical.

I am not sure what about traps sucks, they are quite useful If a party knows anything about stealth and focus instead of Rush and Bang. What deters the use of rituals is their lack focus. The used spirits will be those that affect the enemy more than the party - that is practically none of them. If the focus of nature rituals didn't provide negatives equally to both party and foe, but either benefited the party or lessened ability for the foe, then they would be more desirable. They do not follow the meta of any other class. What would happen tactically if AoE affected both sides? Or if shouts and chants affected both sides?