Curse

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 10, 2010, 01:52 AM // 01:52

They rarely do that, and I doubt they'll start now. You've got your hopes very high lol

Gennadios · Feb 10, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

so... after all that has been said here, I was hoping that we could get some kind of response from Anet or the Test Krewe to say something along the lines of "we're looking at it" or "we have no plans to change anything". Just curious to see if there is a possibility of getting some positive changes made?

The next skill update is due to have SF/600/Smite nerfs, as well as buffs to tactics and hammer mastery.

The best you'll be hoping for is for the all-seeing gaze of the Live team to turn to the para after they release the upcoming update... in 2 - 3 months.

Hell, the paragon might even be buffed just in time for GW2 to be released!

For the record, I agree with most of what was said here, although I no longer play my para due to maxing all the relevant titles, he *was* a primary at one point.

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 10, 2010, 01:42 PM // 13:42

well i didn't expect immediate results but I suppose we will just have to hope for the best. paragon is not all that common anyway, i doubt that ANY changes they make to paragons will alter the current meta of permasin/600/hundredblades/markofpain farming. hopefully Shadowform gets nerfed real bad, real soon, because the way things are is a real drag. 600/smite I don't see as a real problem because unlike Shadowform it is not complete invincibility, nor is it very fast. I don't believe you'll see anyone 600/smiting the underworld in less than 30 minutes anytime soon.

Sniper22 · Feb 10, 2010, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

Never Surrender: Useful to counter degen in PvE. Would be useful in PvP if it were unconditional and maintainable, that way it could power Soldier's Fury. If health regen is ZOMG scary in PvP (it isn't) the effect could be reduced to only +1...+3 regen.

Clearly you have no idea of how much pressure degen/poison spread can put out. You're basically asking for a recup (unnerfed) without the spirit and no real energy cost or ways of countering the skill. Party healing was nerfed for a reason. GG.

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 10, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Clearly you have no idea of how much pressure degen/poison spread can put out. You're basically asking for a recup (unnerfed) without the spirit and no real energy cost or ways of countering the skill. Party healing was nerfed for a reason. GG.

party healing for 5e:
divine healing
heaven's delight

condition ownage:
Peace and Harmony
Restore Conditions
Draw Conditions
Pure Was Li Ming
Cautery Signet
Song of Purification

if monks are not carrying skills to deal with conditions efficiently that is their problem not the paragon's problem.

Sniper22 · Feb 11, 2010, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

party healing for 5e:
divine healing
heaven's delight

condition ownage:
Peace and Harmony
Restore Conditions
Draw Conditions
Pure Was Li Ming
Cautery Signet
Song of Purification

if monks are not carrying skills to deal with conditions efficiently that is their problem not the paragon's problem.

Why don't you learn how to play real gvg before your talk.

A lot of your arguments in your OP are based off the fact that the small +3 regen is insignificant vs a spike. Well that much is obvious because you're gonna need infuse/ 1/4 cast prots to catch spikes. But what you don't realize is that most spikes will not go through if there isn't any pressure being dealt. If the majority of your team is hovering around 80% of their maximum health, there is more of a chance that they'll get spiked out than at 100% max health. Party healing is what negates this pressure, some of it is from poison spread, but much of it also comes from auto attacks as well.

Now I do agree that current skills like "Help Me" and the nerfed Mending Refrain are pretty much useless. But every single profession has skills that are completely useless, and there are even whole attribute lines that are entirely usless, but there is no way to balance all of these skills, and there really is no need to. As far as pvp goes, paragons are still a viable choice and the meta even calls for "Never Surrender" on paragon bars.

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 12, 2010, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Why don't you learn how to play real gvg before your talk.

A lot of your arguments in your OP are based off the fact that the small +3 regen is insignificant vs a spike. Well that much is obvious because you're gonna need infuse/ 1/4 cast prots to catch spikes. But what you don't realize is that most spikes will not go through if there isn't any pressure being dealt. If the majority of your team is hovering around 80% of their maximum health, there is more of a chance that they'll get spiked out than at 100% max health. Party healing is what negates this pressure, some of it is from poison spread, but much of it also comes from auto attacks as well.

Now I do agree that current skills like "Help Me" and the nerfed Mending Refrain are pretty much useless. But every single profession has skills that are completely useless, and there are even whole attribute lines that are entirely usless, but there is no way to balance all of these skills, and there really is no need to. As far as pvp goes, paragons are still a viable choice and the meta even calls for "Never Surrender" on paragon bars.

okay let me just say a couple of thing without anyone getting defensive.

1) there is a pvp/pve split, and if some of this stuff is considered overpowered in PvP that's fine, most of the community seems to be asking Anet put the PvE skllls back the way they were. That won't hurt anything at all in PvE because lolpermasin, lol600, lolERprot, etc. I don't think anyone could argue that ANY paragon skill can compare with that stuff.

2) regarding condition spam, pressure, etc.... condition spam is not exactly a demanding or skillful playstyle, any ranger can put apply poison on his bar and c-space. is that a playstyle that we should be defending or promoting? because if you take away countermeasures against it, that is what you are doing. never surrender and recuperation were the perfect counters for poison spam, lingering curse, etc. perhaps if these countermeasures weren't nerfed to hell no one would have QQ'd about Lingering Curse, because negating it would be easy.

3) saying that all skills should be balanced according to GvG is saying that we should focus on one game format and exclude all the others. If you want to say that PvP skills should be balanced around GvG that might have a little more merit. you don't need to mess up pve for the other professions just because the gvg'ers are rabid warrior fanboys.

Turbo Ginsu · Feb 16, 2010, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Gotta pull a necro in this thread, because of something I noticed in PvX last night. You can try it yourself if you like.

Open the Paragon builds(By Class)page, and apart from p/a dagger spammer, and of course, Imbagon, nearly every single build there, a number I'd estimate at around 100 or so, says the same thing when you open it's page.

Archived. Reason: Nearly all skills nerfed to hell.

IMO, there's a really big problem with a class when 2 builds out of that many, are the only ones that are in "Great". The majority of the rest of them, if not archived, are in "All", or worse. This becomes even more apparent when you note that before archiving, most of them were in "Great" or "Good". Overnerf much aNet?

I'm not saying that PvX is the be all and end all, most of my builds are my own, but IMO, PvX is a very good indicator of a classes viability in general GW gaming.

Kurosaki129 · Feb 16, 2010, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I agree with the side that Paragon's need to get a good ending in the upcoming skill updates instead of a downslope line going down non-stop. I wanted to main my 2nd main as paragon but instead went to use Elementalist instead. All Paragon's good for now is..Imbagon and perhaps Motigon (for energy savings). Its certainly not my top of the list of char playing if it wasnt for its tormented gears...

I also agree with people that paragons shouldn't have suffer in pve because of pvp/gvg. They're all three are different playing fields. One shouldn't suffer because of the other, they should be independent and handle independently (IMO).

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 16, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

Gotta pull a necro in this thread, because of something I noticed in PvX last night. You can try it yourself if you like.

Open the Paragon builds(By Class)page, and apart from p/a dagger spammer, and of course, Imbagon, nearly every single build there, a number I'd estimate at around 100 or so, says the same thing when you open it's page.

Archived. Reason: Nearly all skills nerfed to hell.

IMO, there's a really big problem with a class when 2 builds out of that many, are the only ones that are in "Great". The majority of the rest of them, if not archived, are in "All", or worse. This becomes even more apparent when you note that before archiving, most of them were in "Great" or "Good". Overnerf much aNet?

I'm not saying that PvX is the be all and end all, most of my builds are my own, but IMO, PvX is a very good indicator of a classes viability in general GW gaming.

How much more tragic is it that rangers and paragons are seriously considering dagger builds? I'm sure you've all seen the R/A's in PvP. If paragon and ranger could deal decent ranged damage AS THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO they wouldn't have to resort to gimmicks like dagger-wielding death blossom asuran scan spam. On a ranged damage dealer. /sigh

Desert Rose · Feb 16, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

I'm not saying that PvX is the be all and end all, most of my builds are my own, but IMO, PvX is a very good indicator of a classes viability in general GW gaming.

The number of builds of a single profession on PvX is a very bad indicator of a classes viablilty, at least of its viability in PvP. Instead, look at the number of teambuilds with a paragon.

Commander Kanen · Feb 16, 2010, 07:13 PM // 19:13

PvX is a good indicator of class viablilty. PvX covers all current meta builds and solo play builds. Look on the pvp side and see how many builds have a good rating. Look on the solo and pve party builds and see how many have a good rating compared to ANY other class.

In pvp people mostly take a paragon in their group because "There best friends favourite toon is a para so we will allow it"

Other than that, (some GvG) and old outdated builds like IWAY (nerf again), paragons dont get much action.
The fact that its hard to find more than 1 paragon at any given time makes things harder as most of paragon skills are more viable while running atleast 2.

However some of the skills i mentioned were for pve use and we have a pvpve split for a reason. Even if pvp paragon could use a fiew updates. (im not talking uber party buffs, i mean mild Selfish skills that make paragons more attractive to use)

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 16, 2010, 07:19 PM // 19:19

also... rangers are already imba in r-spike builds (well.. not so much now, but used to be). however, we all know that rangers have expertise which allows them to run imba bars that the primary profession find too energy intensive to run... have a look back over the past 3 years...

we have R/D Scythe, R/W Thumpers, R/N Touchers, R/A Shitters. What next... IW R/Me???

hmmm... that;s a good idea since the last IW buff that no one really took advantage of... too bad you can;t take advantage of Escape...

Commander Kanen · Feb 16, 2010, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I used to run Me/a and Me/D IW builds but they got nerfd =))

Lanier · Feb 17, 2010, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Kanen

I used to run Me/a and Me/D IW builds but they got nerfd =))

Me/R with Iw, a pet, and Never Rampage Alone is the way to go