Curse

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Feb 18, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I find it amusing that people, for some reason, have failed to blame current game issues on the true 600lb Gorilla in Guild Wars: Consumables

If you search this site for nerf consets, nerf consumables, or variations thereof, you will find precious little and many times it was stated in jest or with sarcasm and others have been royally flamed (which I will probably recieve).

Speed Clears in thier current form are only possible because of consets. Without them, SF could only be maintained by A/E with GoS and A/Me with Echo. It would bring the speeds way down with out destroying this gameplay segment like a full SF nerf would.

The best way to nerf cons, in my opinion, is to eliminate stacking. What I propose is that cons should be divided into two groups, Major and Minor.

Major cons would be party wide buffs with heafty stats. Major cons persist through death and zoning, basically lasting full duration no matter what. 30 minute duration still.

Minor Cons would be single target buffs with lesser stats and more specialized buffs. Minor cons would dissipate on death or zoning. 10 minute duration.

Each Person can have 1 major and 1 minor at any given time. If a new con is cast before the old runs out, it overwrites what ever was in place.

A change this major, makes cons look kinda useless, so the 2nd phase would be to re-deploy the popular cons with new buffs and stats as well as adding in a few new cons.

The Major cons (with some proposed changes) would be:

Armor of Salvation: +50 Armor, +1 Health Regen, conditions and Hexes expire 33% faster.

This is intended to make Armor of Salvation a defensive buff. I think making cons into a choice between Offense/Defense/little of both is a proper way to make them work.

PowerStone of Courage: +20 melee attack Damage, +20% Critical Chance, +20% attack Speed

This is intended to make a strong melee party. The old Powerstone was somewhat overlapping with other cons.

Grail of Might: reduce cast times 50%, +20 energy, +3 energy regen, spells you cast heal you for 200% of the energy cost

This is intended to make the Grail of Might a Caster buffing con.

Essence of Celerity: All Stances last 50% longer, Enchantments you cast last 10% longer (stacking with +20 weapons), spirits live 20% longer and have +100 health, Dervish forms recharge instantly, you can control 50% more minions, chants and shouts last 20% longer, ranger pets have +100 health and attack 20% faster.

An all around buff to all classes intended to make anything work a bit better, defense or offense.

Scroll of Resurrection: Every 10 seconds one dead party member is resurrected with full health and energy.

This is intended to be a sort of get it done no matter what buff. It may take hours, you may have the worst builds, but eventually you will beat it.

Any other buffing consumables become minor cons. Minor cons will only have one buff, or maybe multiple buffs with a coresponding debuff (i.e. -health, - speed, etc) .

Minors would be redistributed so that there are several options each of:
+33% speed
+100 health
+50 energy
+33% attack speed
-50% skill activation
+1 to all attributes

A new set of minor cons would also be made: attribute is set to 16, -75 health

There would be 1 con for each attribute of each profession. Yes, this would essentially allow any class to be any class. So no more class discrimination. If this proves to be way to powerful, there could also be added a -30 attribute points, or maybe all other attributes are -3 or something. These would be craftable or maybe from Traveler gifts or chest drops.

For DP cons, I suggest any non-party DP removals be changed to a targeted use item (i.e. remove 15% dp from targeted ally)

For Summoning consumables, I suggest that the summoned creature will rez out of combat (like allies in EoTN).

These changes would do several things. It would reduce the speed clear times considerably (notice no recharge or speed buffs) and open many other options and variations to try in dungeons and elite areas without making them total pushovers like now. Also note, that I make these as general suggestions, that may still need fine tuning. There are also probably major and minor cons that could be made beyond what I have listed, that people might come up with. It will add to the economy with out destroying it. It should promote more general gameplay by eliminating the need of most gimmick builds in PuGs, while still leaving room for people to do speed clears, but with much more variation.

Anet has shown they can rapidly add new cons, so I think this could be implemented without affecting much of anything else and be done in a quick and concise manner.

Cuilan · Feb 18, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Those suggestions seem to further support speed clears and can make the game even easier. Non-stacking with mass (really massive) buffs doesn't fix much.

PowerStone of Courage would have players make AP MoP necros faster than a candy factory that produces candy.

The big EotN cons need to be nerfed or made less powerful in some way, not buffed to extreme levels.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Feb 18, 2010, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Those suggestions seem to further support speed clears and can make the game even easier. Non-stacking with mass (really massive) buffs doesn't fix much.

PowerStone of Courage would have players make AP MoP necros faster than a candy factory that produces candy.

The big EotN cons need to be nerfed or made less powerful in some way, not buffed to extreme levels.

Aside from the +crit chance, everything available in the suggested Powerstone already comes in the current conset, so, I don't see how it would make AP MoP much more likely than it already is.

And which buff is massive? When you consider that only 1 con can be active at any time, they are all close to the current cons with some flip flopping to make them each a defensive or offensive type buff.

A person will only have 2 con buffs at any time. 1 major, 1 minor. Not 10+ like now.

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 18, 2010, 08:15 PM // 20:15

No, the easiest way to fix it, IMO, it do restrict them area-wide in elite areas/missions

Also, your numbers are WAY to high. Sure, you can't stack them, but you've made them so powerful you don't need to stack them

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Feb 18, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

No, the easiest way to fix it, IMO, it do restrict them area-wide in elite areas/missions

Also, your numbers are WAY to high. Sure, you can't stack them, but you've made them so powerful you don't need to stack them

Again, what is too much? And what would you think would be more reasonable within the confines of my topic?

Malician · Feb 18, 2010, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Grail of Might would be absolutely ridiculous. Sure, you can get the cast time from mindbender, but it takes a skill slot and it's annoying to cast it constantly. +3 energy regen is +75%.

Think of it this way: just one of the benefits would allow you to maintain 3 bonds painlessly.

The problem is that these are inhumanely abusable.

drkn · Feb 18, 2010, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

One of the ways is to nerf cons by eliminating stacking.

fixed the only sane sentence there. the general idea about toning down cons is righteous, yet the buffs proposed to 'major' cons are utter bs.

Cuilan · Feb 18, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

And which buff is massive?

Practically all of them. I'd request for a moderator to lock this if I were in your place.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 18, 2010, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Jesus, it looks like you just buffed every single party-wide consumable out there, and made it even easier for people to buff their team according to the team's playstyle.

If you're intending to nerf the usage of cons, this is not the way to do it.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Feb 18, 2010, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I'm trying to keep it on topic.

If something is too much, propose what you think is a better version in the confines of fixing consumables.

Dont Nerf The Perma · Feb 18, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

Armor of Salvation: +50 Armor
PowerStone of Courage: +20 melee attack Damage, +20% Critical Chance
Grail of Might:spells you cast heal you for 200% of the energy cost
Essence of Celerity: All Stances last 50% longer, Enchantments you cast last 10% longer (stacking with +20 weapons), spirits live 20% longer and have +100 health, Dervish forms recharge instantly, you can control 50% more minions, chants and shouts last 20% longer, ranger pets have +100 health and attack 20% faster.
Scroll of Resurrection: Every 10 seconds one dead party member is resurrected with full health and energy.

Minors would be redistributed so that there are several options each of:
+50 energy

A new set of minor cons would also be made: attribute is set to 16, -75 health

There would be 1 con for each attribute of each profession. Yes, this would essentially allow any class to be any class. So no more class discrimination.

ROFL

You obviously have no idea how the game works.

An essence that gives +10% echant duration with a %20 echant mod would make shadow form possible to maintain. And +50% stances would make Deadly paradox last much longer.

+50 armor would be SOOO incredibly imba. Same with +20 damage.

And scroll of resurrection would make a team virtually invincible. And if they can't kill the mob and keep dying and racking up DP it pretty much screws them unless they have DP removal.

If you have a con that boosts the attribute to 16 but still does -75 health, there really is no point to it. It would only free up the armor space, but you can't have cons ALL the time so you'd have to mod the armor to still be able to work without the attribute booster.

The changes your suggesting would make the game way too easy and wouldn't stop speed clears it would HELP them. I agree that cons are the problem, but just essence not anything else. The only time anyone ever uses that con is for speed clears. It needs a function change. The only thing that you said that I liked was the DP removal suggestion I would LOVE that.

Lithril Ashwalker · Feb 18, 2010, 08:58 PM // 20:58

well hes got a point, if we nerf or buff cons across all professions it can be done...everyone can participate and sins wont be the best anymore. its the best way to make the change. /signed

own age myname · Feb 18, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

This is a troll thread....I hope.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Feb 18, 2010, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

ROFL

You obviously have no idea how the game works.

An essence that gives +10% echant duration with a %20 echant mod would make shadow form possible to maintain. And +50% stances would make Deadly paradox last much longer.

+50 armor would be SOOO incredibly imba. Same with +20 damage.

And scroll of resurrection would make a team virtually invincible. And if they can't kill the mob and keep dying and racking up DP it pretty much screws them unless they have DP removal.

If you have a con that boosts the attribute to 16 but still does -75 health, there really is no point to it. It would only free up the armor space, but you can't have cons ALL the time so you'd have to mod the armor to still be able to work without the attribute booster.

The changes your suggesting would make the game way too easy and wouldn't stop speed clears it would HELP them. I agree that cons are the problem, but just essence not anything else. The only time anyone ever uses that con is for speed clears. It needs a function change. The only thing that you said that I liked was the DP removal suggestion I would LOVE that.

If +10 more enchant is enough to replace GoS or Echo, then that would need to be changed, I didn't do the exact math on that one.

You have +100 from Save Yourselves, as long as it doesn't stack with other +armor buffs and follows armor cap, it is 1/2 the OP of SY!.

The 16 attribute is intended to allow any class to basically become another class. It over-rides any armor and does not stack with anything else, so you couldn't get anything higher than 16. If you were say an Ele and there is a group spamming for a MM, you could use a potion to get 16 Death Magic and be their MM. The downsides are you lose 75 heath (as +3 runes do) and it would also take away attribute points to limit you to the same stats as that class. The major upside is that no class should really be forced out of any groups.

Deatgs Corrupter · Feb 18, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

WTH. this is ur way to decrease easiness of areas, just nerf the sf skill, buff warriors so they can be the tanks they once were

Braxton619 · Feb 18, 2010, 10:26 PM // 22:26

TERRIBLE suggestions... I also laughed at the powerstone one and celerity. That BU would just overpower the game. I mean just read it... Rez Scroll should not rez more than one... its ONE scroll. Full energy and health is FAR overpowered. 25% health and no energy is fair.

And wow that would make the game super easy.

The only suggestion I agree with is being able to rez summonings. That would be good because a lot of times if you get wiped.. your summoning is dead and you can't use another one for 60 mins...

Lichtenberg · Feb 18, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

All con's should be removed from the player if he/she dies.

Schnellburg · Feb 19, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50

You realize even with changing cons, speed clears won't be that much slower right...? Maybe an extra 4-5 mins tops.

Dont Nerf The Perma · Feb 19, 2010, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

You have +100 from Save Yourselves, as long as it doesn't stack with other +armor buffs and follows armor cap, it is 1/2 the OP of SY!

Its still OP, it can't be countered by an anti-shout hex, there are no gaps like there might be when a paragon is spamming SY, if you knock down a paragon there will be a larger gap with SY, and if you combine this plus an imbagon you have complete invincibility.

Ah I didn't understand the +16 I though it was only for main prof atributes. Still, there's potential there for abuse.

Sorry if I sounded harsh on the post above, wasn't in the best mood at the time.

X Dr Pepper X · Feb 19, 2010, 03:04 AM // 03:04

No cons in elite areas at all. Then they would be ELITE.

e·lite
/ɪˈlit, eɪˈlit/ Show Spelled[ih-leet, ey-leet] Show IPA
–noun
1.
(often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.
2.
(used with a plural verb) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.

Crazy.