Curse

agrios · Apr 16, 2010, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Minion Mastery got severely nerfed tru the years, the two main blows on it were the Minion Limit and the rework of Verata's Aura.

I believe they got nerfed mainly because of PVP. But now the engine supports skill splitting.

Why not give us some of the ol'good minion army back? If not reversing, at least increasing the limit of minions and the skills to keep them alive.

Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS! But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not?

End · Apr 16, 2010, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Minion Mastery got severely nerfed tru the years, the two main blows on it were the Minion Limit and the rework of Verata's Aura.

I believe they got nerfed mainly because of PVP. But now the engine supports skill splitting.

Are you seriously saying we need to buff MM's? REALLY?

it's not like theyre are in effective I rarely leave a town without a few minion skills on my hero bars if they're already specing into death...

You want to make them MORE powerful?

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Why not give us some of the ol'good minion army back?

Might have been fun...was also overpowered... also note that the engine supports skill splitting not attribute splitting and since this isn't a skill rather reliant on the attribute....

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If not reversing, at least increasing the limit of minions

See Overpowered

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and the skills to keep them alive.

Minnion bomber would still be preferred by me at least...no need to keep them alive...

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Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS!

Because it is...

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But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not?

OK while we are at it un-nerf ursan

upier · Apr 16, 2010, 04:32 PM // 16:32

End · Apr 16, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I know upier...but I still love you....now get in bed....I'll be up in a moment

agrios · Apr 16, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Are you seriously saying we need to buff MM's? REALLY?

Minnion bomber would still be preferred by me at least...no need to keep them alive...

OK while we are at it un-nerf ursan

Ursan was insanely imba because it could be used by anyone with equal efficiency and, from a good range and with armor ignoring damage. It well deserved what came onto it.

But hi-level minion mastery is only usable by Necromancers primary.

And plus, some (like you) go minion bomb, some (like me) enjoyed to zerg with them. Its just a matter of taste. Minion bomb is still viable, but keeping a good number of minions alive is way harder to say at least.

Im not asking for another overpowered stuff that could be nerfed again..just a few more punch..

End · Apr 16, 2010, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Im not asking for another overpowered stuff that could be nerfed again..just a few more punch..

actually what you are suggesting I would consider worse then ursan...no need for anything when you can have a team of 8 mm's go in and have one sac himself a few times and then plow through the area with impossible to kill teams of unlimited minions...

they are fine as they are...

PvE is easy enough as it is...

no need to give bad players more overpowered crap

and you sir are an idiot if you don't see your suggestion as being overpowered...

Enon · Apr 16, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Ursan was insanely imba because it could be used by anyone with equal efficiency and, from a good range and with armor ignoring damage. It well deserved what came onto it.

But hi-level minion mastery is only usable by Necromancers primary.

Instead of buffing something that can be used by everyone, you think it's better to buff something that can only be used by one of the most powerful and versatile classes?

Do you see how flawed your logic is? Before even remotely considering the slight possibility of buffing necromancer, they should first think about Paragons, Dervishes, Mesmers and Elementalists.

robmdq · Apr 16, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I fully agree with the OP about getting back the very old and original MMs.

Now, the MMs wasn't nerfed because of PVP, it was due to the expansions, imagine an army of everlasting golems....

But yeah, maybe it would be nice if there could be a way to keep those skills like they were, lets say "verata's Sacrifice only affect Prophecies minions" for example, but since everything was twisted to favor the newer skills without any consideration about screwing the older ones, i don't believe we will ever see this happening.

Just go and try playing an original MM (want the build, i still got it somewhere) using only core skills, i will save you the time, it is impossible since the original GW MM's was destroyed.

I always see people look at builds only from the "i got all expansions" side, and only by one or two variants, but what about the original builds? Why do we had to resign on our undead armies made of simple bone minions and fiends?

The miinion bombers shouldn't even be called minion masters, should be called plain minion bombers or minion exploiters, the whole thing about minion masters is to have minions alife and fighting for you, not just walking bombs. I have seen many more overpowered things happening in PVE than the old minion masters already.

anyways...

/signed

Aldric · Apr 16, 2010, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS! But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not?

I really hate the "Why not, its pve" excuse. Just becuase its easy is no reason to have BigRedKillButton skills and overpowered crap like huge minion armies.

Anet should be looking at ways to make PvE more difficult for everyone not easier.

/no to overpowered shit
/maybe to removing completely the minion cap but adding a caveat to minion raising skills where you lose 5% max health for every minion you control. Just for laughs

End · Apr 16, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmdq

I fully agree with the OP about getting back the very old and original MMs.

Now, the MMs wasn't nerfed because of PVP, it was due to the expansions, imagine an army of everlasting golems....

But yeah, maybe it would be nice if there could be a way to keep those skills like they were, lets say "verata's Sacrifice only affect Prophecies minions" for example, but since everything was twisted to favor the newer skills without any consideration about screwing the older ones, i don't believe we will ever see this happening.

Just go and try playing an original MM (want the build, i still got it somewhere) using only core skills, i will save you the time, it is impossible since the original GW MM's was destroyed.

I always see people look at builds only from the "i got all expansions" side, and only by one or two variants, but what about the original builds? Why do we had to resign on our undead armies made of simple bone minions and fiends?

The miinion bombers shouldn't even be called minion masters, should be called plain minion bombers or minion exploiters, the whole thing about minion masters is to have minions alife and fighting for you, not just walking bombs. I have seen many more overpowered things happening in PVE than the old minion masters already.

anyways...

/signed

OANEYZxX+TInqUGLhJ0gHZC

non bomber proph MM that works just fine with the skills and cap as it is...throw together in a matter of minutes...most of which was checking to see what skills were available in only proph

Sooooo all your points are invalid...

not horribly underpowered while still only using one campaign...although your gimping yourself by only using one...it's not the game gimping you by limiting your minnions

robmdq · Apr 16, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Whats the need for all the bad wording here?

@End, i just use my only defense as a responsible conumer, which is not rewarding anet with my money by nerfing the original game content to favor the expansions, that's why i don't purchase the expansions, it is the base of the Consumer Rights.

End · Apr 16, 2010, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmdq

@End, i just use my only defense as a responsible conumer, which is not rewarding anet with my money by nerfing the original game content to favor the expansions, that's why i don't purchase the expansions, it is the base of the Consumer Rights.

then it's still your own fault you don't have the same power you could have...

just because YOU won't buy a campaign dosen't mean they should have to balance the game around YOUR play style and purchasing habits... They didn't nerf it because they wanted to force you to buy the next game they nerfed it because it was overpowered

...powercreep is natural...live with it...

your argument is still invalid though as I have given you a proph only effective mm build...

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 16, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

actually what you are suggesting I would consider worse then ursan...no need for anything when you can have a team of 8 mm's go in and have one sac himself a few times and then plow through the area with impossible to kill teams of unlimited minions...

they are fine as they are...

PvE is easy enough as it is...

no need to give bad players more overpowered crap

and you sir are an idiot if you don't see your suggestion as being overpowered...

lmao. buffing minions to how they originally were is still not as bad as some of the stuff already in pve. are you serious

robmdq · Apr 16, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

then it's still your own fault you don't have the same power you could have...

just because YOU won't buy a campaign dosen't mean they should have to balance the game around YOUR play style and purchasing habits... They didn't nerf it because they wanted to force you to buy the next game they nerfed it because it was overpowered

...powercreep is natural...live with it...

your argument is still invalid though as I have given you a proph only effective mm build...

Sorry, but when i purchase a product i expect it to remain unaltered or improved, not nerfed to favor a newer product.

On the build you posted, it will fail at keeping the undeads alive for long periods of time, the minions will last too short time to make it an effective build, specially if you come across areas with large spaces without fuel to raise new minions and since you are using them also to recover your spent HP, you are actually reducing your army in numbers maybe faster than the own environment. Useless build.

Johny bravo · Apr 16, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Does anyone else find it weird that even as the game gets easier and easier due to buffs, nerfs, and experience people still want to dumb it down even more. Every week there are at least 3 threads trying to make some new super skill. If anything we should all be calling for nerfs to make the game more challenging and bring back some of the thought and tactics required in the beginning.

Don't get me wrong I miss my minion armies as much as the next person, my main in a necro; but my god an army of 40+ minions is easily achievable and could run through just about anything.

End · Apr 16, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

lmao. buffing minions to how they originally were is still not as bad as some of the stuff already in pve. are you serious

dosen't mean it's a good idea xD

buff what needs it then nerf the over powered crap...the order may be shuffled a bit...

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Sorry, but when i purchase a product i expect it to remain unaltered or improved, not nerfed to favor a newer product.

It is improved you have more content now then the game originally had...Some of your skills were toned down because they would cause issues with other skills...If you want a game that will keep the skills the same go play something single player and never update the game...don't let your selfish demands require an unbalanced game for everyone else

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On the build you posted, it will fail at keeping the undeads alive for long periods of time, the minions will last too short time to make it an effective build, specially if you come across areas with large spaces without fuel to raise new minions and since you are using them also to recover your spent HP, you are actually reducing your army in numbers maybe faster than the own environment. Useless build.

I lol'd there's no need to keep them up in the long term when they can be replaced easily... trust me...it works fine on a hero (just did a few hm missions with it since posting) if you can't manage the intelligence of a hero that's not my fault... there was almost never a time he had less then 7 minions...rolled through every mission without a problem

Coverticus · Apr 16, 2010, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Good lord, unlimited minons with the current skills available (remember, most of what we have now wasn't really available pre-cap) would just be stupidly insane and overpowered. Death Nova and BoC neccies would have a field day!

Don't get me wrong, I DO miss the 25+ bone fiend days in ToPK and SF but the game has moved on considerably since then. Removing the cap would just be ANet throwing in the towel, admitting "game over man... game over!" and giving you an "autokill everything" option

Cuilan · Apr 16, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I rarely leave without an minion master of some sort when I H/H. Minions and necromancers are strong enough. Stop wanting to buff the already god status professions.

MagmaRed · Apr 16, 2010, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Way back when they introduced the limit on the number of minions, I was mad. At that time I farmed Sorrow's Furnace regularly with the standard Tank, bonder, healer, SS, MM, and 3 nukers. No loot scaling, no scatter issues, and gear/keg aggro magnet made tanking EXTREMELY simple. Having 50-60 minions in Sorrows was a blast. However, I soon learned that it didn't mean things couldn't continue. Having fewer minions didn't mean the game became impossible, in fact, it didn't really increase the difficulty much. But better yet, I found my energy easier to maintain. See, when I kept an army of dozens running, only the enemies dies to give me energy. Now, making an 11th minion will give me energy to continue casting. Blood Bond is an amazing skill for MMs now, so if you don't want to bomb your minions, just make use of the skills available. Not hard at all to keep an army alive, if it is, you have different problems.

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 16, 2010, 07:22 PM // 19:22

lmao, minions are overpowered enough in pve as it is. /notsigned