Curse

SilentVex · Jul 03, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Guild Wars is known for its relatively fast paced and (player) skill based pvp. In its current form I don't believe Defy Pain reflects that. Unless you bring very specific counters (mainly VoR or empathy) it takes ages to kill a Defy warrior, even with 10 pips of degen and general melee counters like blind and curses - which take up to 20 seconds to sink in. If they couldn't do anything besides tank infinite damage that would be fine, but the sad fact is that they can still do things, so killing them is as important as any other player.

I'm not against the skill being a damage reduction + max hp buff, but it's over the top in its current 20 second duration, easily maintainable, unremovable form. By all means, let people tank pve and npcs with it, but either open up some more counters to it so that teams with a good set of general utility can deal with it, or tone it down. Quite frankly, it single-handedly makes pvp at times annoying and frustrating - not because I made a mistake or someone played better than me - but because someone decided to bring a griefing elite that I can't do anything about.

Some ideas: Make it a stance. Reduce the adren cost to 4 (it already is with Lion's Comfort, which every DP has) and reduce the duration to 10 seconds. Give it an activation. Give it a conditional end like using another adrenaline skill.

There's a plethora of other things that could be done to fairly balance it. I'm just tired of good Factions format pvp being ruined by having 3+ Defy wars on the other team that constantly halt gameplay to kill another Defy war...again.

If this has been posted before, sorry, the search function is disabled at the moment, and I'm not gonna look past the first 4 pages.

ajc2123 · Jul 03, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I'm not sure How i feel about defy pain...

It's true that they are annoying to kill and can still put out a decent dps (not good enough for spikes though imo) but then again I still can't see using an elite for damage reduction enough to use it.

For PvE its fine....not sure how I feel about pvp.

Perhaps if it needs a nerf, just give it a -X damage clause kinda like shadowform? Like "While under defy pain you do -20...7 damage in melee"?

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 03, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

It's fine in PvE, so make a PvP version. Make it 1 second activation, 7 adren, and a stance.
Problem fixed ^_^

(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol

[Morkai] · Jul 03, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

It's fine in PvE, so make a PvP version. Make it 1 second activation, 7 adren, and a stance.
Problem fixed ^_^

(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol

1 second activation on a stance? Right...

Evil Eye · Jul 03, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

It's fine in PvE, so make a PvP version. Make it 1 second activation, 7 adren, and a stance.
Problem fixed ^_^

(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol

That sounds so dumb. They really aren't a problem at all unless you have little patience.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 03, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Morkai]

1 second activation on a stance? Right...

Sorry, ment to say OR a stance, with 7 adren, either way

Breakfast Mc Rit · Jul 03, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I would normally say "all you gotta do is disable it before they can activate it", but it really does need a PvP nerf because it really is frustrating to see 4/5 allies tunnel visioning on a single target. Maybe keep everything the same but give it 25...15% less dmg and/or 10% speed decrease while it's active.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 03, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

I would normally say "all you gotta do is disable it before they can activate it", but it really does need a PvP nerf because it really is frustrating to see 4/5 allies tunnel visioning on a single target. Maybe keep everything the same but give it 25...15% less dmg and/or 10% speed decrease while it's active.

or make it a stance, plenty of skills can remove it, AND affect it. Being a skill, it cannot be touched.

vamp08 · Jul 03, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Go ahead, nerf it in PvP. If it it gets wrecked for a 4th time in PvE I won't be purchasing GW2.

Why does everyone insist on slowly taking away the warriors abilities to...uh...TANK? Overall, warriors need no balancing; every other class does. SO LEAVE US ALONE!

If anything I would say buff it out the roof in PvE to compete with all the cheating perma sins.

Regulus X · Jul 03, 2009, 04:29 PM // 16:29

/notsigned.. Defy Pain is inferior to spike warrior utility builds. Standard anti-melee hexes work just fine, so does blind, block and cripple to prevent them from building adrenaline. Once they're debuffed, pommel then to win. So, stop your whining and just do it right.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 03, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I hate tanking as a general concept. Anything to ruin its ability to do such is a plus for me.

I don't know why you would want to nerf it in PvP though anyways. Nobody serious in PvP plays a tank.

MetalMan · Jul 03, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

The only time i've seen it run is by people in RA and the few lulz players in GvG (like that guy in nH)

either way, its not actually that good, and lowers a warriors dps immensely... if your having problems killing it, kill something else, it can't kill you.

Div · Jul 03, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I don't know why you would want to nerf it in PvP though anyways. Nobody serious in PvP plays a tank.

A lot of people don't know how to switch targets when they're c-spaced onto a defy warrior. Plus, running from a 1v1 is dishonorable, so you are required to fight a defy warrior to the death.

IronSheik · Jul 03, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I'm guessing this is a lame RA/AB/NotRealPvp Issure

AB=Tab
Anywhere else=Diversion

And if you make defy pain a stance you're pretty much smiter booning it

Regulus X · Jul 03, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I'm guessing this is a lame RA/AB/NotRealPvp Issure

AB=Tab
Anywhere else=Diversion

And if you make defy pain a stance you're pretty much smiter booning it

If they make it a stance, I hope they at least add 25-33% increased movement speed to it for lol's! I'd replace rush for it and go /E for shock utility to lolrape.

Reverend Dr · Jul 03, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Standard anti-melee hexes work just fine, so does blind, block and cripple to prevent them from building adrenaline.

You obviously haven't been playing in this meta. Right now it is easier than it has ever been to keep a warrior completely clean of conditions and hexes despite the increase in anti-warrior hexes and ease of applying conditions.

Right now defy pain is a non-issue. However its one of those skills that is useless at the moment, but if its niche is ever needed, it will be something disgustingly overpowered. 20 damage reduction that cannot be stripped, cannot be interrupted, cannot be e-drained, and cannot be circumvented is a mechanic that should just not be in this game.

dusanyu · Jul 03, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Defy pain is Fine

1

Quote:

even with 10 pips of degen and general melee counters like blind and curses - which take up to 20 seconds to sink in

clearly a low end PvP problem 90% of the problem in low end PvP is no healers so a warrior has to bring in a couple self survival skills to be effective. Can you blame them because it sounds like your being lame and stacking annoying little hexes. The way I see it if your sitting there spamming all of your hexes on one guy you deserve to get pummeled into the ground.

2 Learn to target switch
3 learn to kite and prekite

QQless just because you could not "Lolerpown" a warrior with your Cowardly little hex and run build

Tenebrae · Jul 03, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

/notsigned.. Defy Pain is inferior to spike warrior utility builds. Standard anti-melee hexes work just fine, so does blind, block and cripple to prevent them from building adrenaline. Once they're debuffed, pommel then to win. So, stop your whining and just do it right.

QFT , is like arguing about a MM on AB with dark bond and self heals. There are many ways to kill em , if a usual or a "balanced" setup doesnt have 1 or 2 of them is not a "skill balance" problem so , like Regulus said ...

/notsigned

Bob Slydell · Jul 03, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Awwwwwww, It takes ages to kill a Defy Pain warrior? Too bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

20 damage reduction that cannot be stripped, cannot be interrupted, cannot be e-drained, and cannot be circumvented is a mechanic that should just not be in this game.

I strongly disagree.

HawkofStorms · Jul 03, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You obviously haven't been playing in this meta. Right now it is easier than it has ever been to keep a warrior completely clean of conditions and hexes despite the increase in anti-warrior hexes and ease of applying conditions.

Umm... you obviously don't realize that the "meta" where defy pain warriors are even prevalent isn't organized PvP, but stuff like RA, AB, etc, where the odds that you will have a good monk who can keep you clean is slim to none.

I agree with Iron and Reverend. The skill is not good. It is countered by standard anti-warrior stuff and is not as effective as better warrior bars. It is a pain only if you bad teammates focus fire on him from the start rather then ignore the tank and wait until the rest of his team is dead before turning on him.