Curse

The Josip · Jul 10, 2010, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Pre-searing. The only place where degeneration was balanced with direct damage. And fun.

--
Let the QQ begin. "Omg you want to make it overpowered, nooooo! Omg I'll die when Behemoth casts Suffering on my team! Noooo me helpless. Omg you want class x (as if class x is only one that has degen) to be overpowered! Nooo!"

But let me ask you this:

* Wouldn't you want your Poison Arrow or Apply Poison ranger to deal nice damage in PvE? Not as much damage as Barrage, but at least decent enough so that it's playable?

* To cast Tainted Flesh on your team and watch the monsters crumble?

* Wouldn't you want Mursaat to brutally kill you if you're not infused, just like in good old days? Hell yea!

zelgadissan · Jul 10, 2010, 10:19 AM // 10:19

You're really good at not giving an actual suggestion and just making a broad blanket statement (for example, the physical/caster damage thread).

So you want degen skills rebalanced? Show me what these should look like then.

Conjure Phantasm
Illusion of Pain
Life Siphon
Suffering

Recurring Insecurity
Crippling Anguish
Life Transfer
Weaken Knees

Give some examples and then maybe you'll get a serious response.

The Josip · Jul 10, 2010, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

You're really good at not giving an actual suggestion and just making a broad blanket statement (for example, the physical/caster damage thread).

Removing degen cap is an actual suggestion.

As for the skills, it's a job of Test Krew which I'm not a part of. And it minimizes the QQ here.
Besides, like in physical/caster thread, most of the people think things are balanced (or like that they are not), so actual detailed suggestions are pointless. If someone is so blind as not to see obvious imbalance, then what good are more subtle ventures? Just a waste of my time.

Quote:

Give some examples and then maybe you'll get a serious response.

I have no intention of giving sense of importance to people.
I made a suggestion in a suggestion subforum. That's it. No more, no less. If you don't like suggestion you can type "QQ more" "pwned" or whatever is the latest trend in Internet communication.

zelgadissan · Jul 10, 2010, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Fine, here's your serious response. The point I was trying to get you to see through giving examples (which obviously failed) is that unless you seriously change the skills, removing the degen cap is pointless.

Who is going to bring 5 degen skills out of 8 to get any decent effect out of them? I could load up an illusion bar with Conjure Phantasm, Conjure Nightmare, Migraine, and Illusion of Pain. Hooray, I've successfully reached ~30 health degen for 60 DPS +10 DPS for the straight damage of IoP for 70 total. My warrior will do that with a single skill, or with Strength of Honor or orders, auto-attacks - not to mention that with casting times, those probably took around 6 seconds to get out even with Fast Casting.

Poison Arrow/Apply Poison/disease in general would still be pointless unless used in some condition overload team like a Fevered Dreams or Extend Conditions. Removing the cap does nothing to make 8 DPS stronger, and breaking the cap would imply a serious waste of skill slots across your team.

Still not a serious suggestion without showing what you want to change.

RedDog91 · Jul 10, 2010, 12:41 PM // 12:41

So...you want your full 15 degen while fighting the 2nd room of Urgoz's Warren?

you wont last 10 seconds in that mob.

SpyderArachnid · Jul 10, 2010, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Definitely and utterly no thanks.

I'm a Mesmer by heart, but I could just imagine the QQ if they remove the degen cap. Could you just imagine it? Mesmer runs in, casts a full bar of Degen, giving you about -30 Health Degen or more. It is just..... no. Imagine those groups of Wind Riders in the Asuran Territory. >.<

I am perfectly happy with the cap.

Morphy · Jul 10, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

The cap is there for a reason, it's to make sure people don't purely use degen skills. The introduction of "DPS" skills such as Seeping Wound was a terrible idea because of this.

Dre · Jul 10, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

I wouldn't mind if they increased the degen from conditions

That way you need less conditions to max out the degen and conditions are quite easy to remove compared to hexes.

Or maybe buff a pip of Health regeneration/degeneration to 3hp/sec

t00115577 · Jul 10, 2010, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

Or maybe buff a pip of Health regeneration/degeneration to 3hp/sec

Signed for Mending

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 10, 2010, 04:22 PM // 16:22

/not signed

The cap has been there from the very beginning. And there's not 1 thing wrong with it the way it is.

R_Frost · Jul 10, 2010, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

But let me ask you this:

* Wouldn't you want your Poison Arrow or Apply Poison ranger to deal nice damage in PvE? Not as much damage as Barrage, but at least decent enough so that it's playable?

why would i continue to use any 3 of those skills. only use poison arrow had was for solo farming. sure apply poison still gets used but in most cases its run with burning arrow for the max degen. as for barrage, if it wasnt for splinter weapon, no one would use it anymore except for specific situations. thanks to PvE skill buffs i can out damage a degen build any day with my Ranger. with a build i use, i regularly hit for 150 a shot or higher in HM with my Ranger. most of the time i dont even need interupts for monks in HM due to the pure damage done.

i think you need to take a break from making suggestions, go back over the forum and see how the good suggestions in the past have been made then try again

Hybrid Meteora · Jul 10, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Frost

why would i continue to use any 3 of those skills. only use poison arrow had was for solo farming. sure apply poison still gets used but in most cases its run with burning arrow for the max degen. as for barrage, if it wasnt for splinter weapon, no one would use it anymore except for specific situations. thanks to PvE skill buffs i can out damage a degen build any day with my Ranger. with a build i use, i regularly hit for 150 a shot or higher in HM with my Ranger. most of the time i dont even need interupts for monks in HM due to the pure damage done.

i think you need to take a break from making suggestions, go back over the forum and see how the good suggestions in the past have been made then try again

Well c'mon, let's not tell this person they can't make suggestions, that's just mean! xD

I can't say I agree with the whole ''taking away the degen cap". It just seems silly to me, due to the fact the cap since has been in effect since day 1, and I'm perfectly fine with the way it is.

Maybe in PvE, make the degen/health regen go from 2 to 3, I'd be okay with that I suppose, but 10 more damage or health regen at 10 pips really won't change too much, because as stated by a few others, pure damage is still going to be the way to go in most situations.

Reverend Dr · Jul 10, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Degen used to be just fine. Then the game changed. Most everyone here seems to be ignoring this.

Degen caps at 10 pips, or 20 dps. This is a drop in the water compared to direct damage skills available in PvE. Even elementalists with full armor susceptible damage can put out better than this. There is just no real use for degen in PvE.

The answer to this is not to change degen, but to deal with the huge shitty power creep after power creep. Of course once you give a child a toy, you can't take it away, so the power creep will never be dealt with. You could change degen, but that would be another power creep and create more problems. You could take away degen, but that would be taking away someone's toy. So instead we are left with an outdated mechanic, that no viable change will make it useful, and yet it cannot be gotten rid of.

Lanier · Jul 10, 2010, 08:57 PM // 20:57

I was actually thinking the other day about how to make regen/degen more viable in PvE. I think that having it uncapped would be too easily abuseable but capping it at 15 degen/regen (and changing the environmental effect in the last room in urgoz) would be reasonable.

Lord Dagon · Jul 10, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

/not signed

The cap has been there from the very beginning. And there's not 1 thing wrong with it the way it is.

QFT. nothings wrong w/ the cap. if you dont think you run well enough using degen.. run something else, your not limted to only certain styles :P

jazilla · Jul 11, 2010, 12:19 AM // 00:19

i would say i smell troll, but i think the OP is serious.

UnChosen · Jul 11, 2010, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Only if the degen cap is removed from the monsters and NOT from the players. I've been looking at the horrible elementalist damage for so long I forgot degen is even worse >.<

/Signed

MithranArkanere · Jul 12, 2010, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Without that cap, you'll be dead PLENTY of times.
If you remove the cap, having -2HP/s per pip, even normal mode enemies could easily get degen over 10. Some poison, add some bleeding, and disease, a bit of burning a couple of hexes and ding, you easily have 50 pips of degen. That's 100 damage per second.

Now, get a place with plenty of degen, like anywhere near a party of EotN mandragors, and you are dead 3 times before even activating the first skill.

So... let's not touch what's fine.

GW needs more content and a little buffing for underused or unfavored things like smiting, beast mastery or elemental damage in HM.

Tenebrae · Jul 12, 2010, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Degen is not the problem itself , its the lack of sync with the rest of skills. Very few of them does something diff if theres poison or dissease on the target , and 90% of those bonuses arent worth taking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Without that cap, you'll be dead PLENTY of times.
If you remove the cap, having -2HP/s per pip, even normal mode enemies could easily get degen over 10. Some poison, add some bleeding, and disease, a bit of burning a couple of hexes and ding, you easily have 50 pips of degen. That's 100 damage per second.

You should stop smoking that , seriously. Even NM enemies can easily get degen over 10 ? bloody lol hell NO.
And about those 09830659 conditions and hexes , no , doesnt happen in 99% of the game. RC and IJAFW > conditions anywhere.

PS: "easy 50 pips of degen" , still loling.

Aljasha · Jul 12, 2010, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Don't fuel the power creep.