Curse

Lanier · Jul 19, 2010, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Being the ignorant PvEer I am, will someone tell me why people say Rangers are used as dagger users in PvP over assassins?

Fleeting · Jul 19, 2010, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fahhhh

AoD sins are not unbeatable by any means. The added mobility is what gave people a reason to run them. Thats always been the way I thought of Assassin's; they are extremely mobile. Mobility is what makes this game fun and honestly AoD sins were probably the most balanced form of sin play this game has ever seen, other than being useless in PvP

Uncatchable, not necessarily unbeatable (most of us who were around for the AoD fun knew to have enchant removal somewhere). I do miss the AoD sins, they felt a lot more like the way Assassins should be played - utilized the shadow steps along with the dagger combos to get a kill / put out pressure. Pre-nerf Shadow of Haste on a Cripshot was also sexy.

The Coward / Assault sins, while annoying, are pretty much fine. They're difficult to counter and take relatively little skill to play, but they also deal pitiful damage in comparison both to the average Warrior and to the old Shattering Assault builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Being the ignorant PvEer I am, will someone tell me why people say Rangers are used as dagger users in PvP over assassins?

Expertise makes the dagger attacks cheaper. Since the Escape change, Assassins are also more competitive (the rangers can actually be killed now).

Desert Rose · Jul 19, 2010, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Being the ignorant PvEer I am, will someone tell me why people say Rangers are used as dagger users in PvP over assassins?

In a world where your opponents are constanly blocking and kiting and you're debuffed with miss hexes and blind Expertise becomes a far better e-managment than Critical Strikes.

Reverend Dr · Jul 20, 2010, 03:35 AM // 03:35

And aside from Soul Reaping in PvE, expertise is still the best energy management period. Any fast recharging skill that benefits from expertise is going to be more potent in the hands of a ranger primary.

HigherMinion · Jul 20, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

And aside from Soul Reaping in PvE, expertise is still the best energy management period. Any fast recharging skill that benefits from expertise is going to be more potent in the hands of a ranger primary.

Actually, when talking about physicals; Leadership>all. With just two adren based skills and 12-14 Leadership, you'll never run out of energy. You can run out if you spam as a necro without secondary management.

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 20, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Actually, when talking about physicals; Leadership>all. With just two adren based skills and 12-14 Leadership, you'll never run out of energy. You can run out if you spam as a necro without secondary management.

You have to hit to gain adrenaline; any form of block, blind, miss, etc. (not to mention anti adrenaline hexing) means no adrenaline and no energy. Warrior and paragon shutdown is very easy to do. (bsurge says hi, among MANY other options)

HigherMinion · Jul 20, 2010, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

You have to hit to gain adrenaline; any form of block, blind, miss, etc. (not to mention anti adrenaline hexing) means no adrenaline and no energy. Warrior and paragon shutdown is very easy to do. (bsurge says hi, among MANY other options)

Paragon are midline, with high armour and health (generally) There aren't that many instances that would shut them down. And also if the paragon gets shutdown so will the ranger, most likely sooner. And a ranger who can't spam attacks, is even more useless than a paragon with a few energy skills as backup.

Reverend Dr · Jul 20, 2010, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Key point "with 2 adrenal based skills" Soul reaping and expertise do not require any of your 8 skill slot investment. I mean Mind Blast and Fire Attunement provide a hell of a lot of e-management. Elemental Attunement and [attunement]. Ether Renewal.

Consider just the attributes by themselves. There are plenty of skill combinations that make energy management very easy, but they require skill slots to be taken. This is the reason that R/A's are so potent; they get e-management without giving up any skill slots.

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 20, 2010, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Paragon are midline, with high armour and health (generally) There aren't that many instances that would shut them down. And also if the paragon gets shutdown so will the ranger, most likely sooner. And a ranger who can't spam attacks, is even more useless than a paragon with a few energy skills as backup.

what does high armor and high health have to do with energy management?

there are plenty of ways to shut down the paragon's adrenaline-to-energy conversion; there are NO ways to shut down the ranger's expertise or the necromancer's soul reaping. Desert Rose has already pointed out why rangers work well in this role, expertise works no matter what.

zelgadissan · Jul 21, 2010, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

there are NO ways to shut down the ranger's expertise or the necromancer's soul reaping.

Wail of Doom
Atrophy

/mebeingasmartass

Elnino · Jul 21, 2010, 06:27 AM // 06:27

@Main Topic

Undo the buffs that those skills were given in PvP. I don't see any harm in leaving the buffs in place for PvE.

pinkeyflower · Jul 21, 2010, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

@Main Topic

Undo the buffs that those skills were given in PvP. I don't see any harm in leaving the buffs in place for PvE.

Will probably make sins even more useless.

Sirius Bsns · Jul 21, 2010, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkeyflower

Will probably make sins even more useless.

/agree 12345

HigherMinion · Jul 21, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

what does high armor and high health have to do with energy management?

there are plenty of ways to shut down the paragon's adrenaline-to-energy conversion; there are NO ways to shut down the ranger's expertise or the necromancer's soul reaping. Desert Rose has already pointed out why rangers work well in this role, expertise works no matter what.

What I'm saying is; if the ranger is blind and the paragon is blind, they'll both be dealing the same damage anyway, and if you're going to carry on spamming attacks while blind you're just an idiot.

It's almost inevitable you're taking an adren skill or two; GFTE namely.

Morphy · Jul 21, 2010, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

@Main Topic

Undo the buffs that those skills were given in PvP. I don't see any harm in leaving the buffs in place for PvE.

Might as well rework them instead as that will render the skills useless.

Xenomortis · Jul 21, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

What I'm saying is; if the ranger is blind and the paragon is blind, they'll both be dealing the same damage anyway, and if you're going to carry on spamming attacks while blind you're just an idiot.

But that's irrelevant to the point being made.