Curse

Missing HB · Sep 19, 2010, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

I don't mind ganking/getting ganked tbh. back when i found it worthwhile to bother doing tombs, me and my friends only ever ganked douchebags. and generally, not talking shit and having a decent attitude makes you less of a target for it.

Not right , you can be ganked because you're euro , because you're playing balanced/bbway ( twice consec ganked on court (2 fame win yay) right now ) , because that team has no infuse/mh/etc.. thus they random gank , etc...

Del · Sep 19, 2010, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Not right

Bullshit. I said being a douchebag makes you less of a targetfor ganking, because not being a douchebag is one less reason for someone to want to gank you, not that douchebaggery is the only reason why you would get ganked.

diabiosx · Sep 20, 2010, 12:10 AM // 00:10

GANK happens, theres no reason behind it. You can be the nicest person in GW, play whatever build and still get ganked.

And to whoever that said even the worst players deserve to win HoH is like saying, even an avg joe that sits in his ass the whole day should be able play for a professional football team. Or that even a dumbass should be able to be a doctor. In USA we called that communism and we dont like commies.

I agree with the OP, no more 3way= Peace out CHANNELING new HA meta here we come!!! and ooo yeah fairness that some of u speak of......

And yes every1 ganks even the people complaining about it in this thread.

Grj · Sep 20, 2010, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

GANK happens, theres no reason behind it. You can be the nicest person in GW, play whatever build and still get ganked.

And to whoever that said even the worst players deserve to win HoH is like saying, even an avg joe that sits in his ass the whole day should be able play for a professional football team. Or that even a dumbass should be able to be a doctor. In USA we called that communism and we dont like commies.

I agree with the OP, no more 3way= Peace out CHANNELING new HA meta here we come!!! and ooo yeah fairness that some of u speak of......

And yes every1 ganks even the people complaining about it in this thread.

Yet many competitive players post condictory stuff wanting the rules changed in their favour (which is why this waahh stop ganking thread was started):

If the people complaining about ganking don't like it, why not GvG? Or is trying to be a HA Superstar in a dead arena, being a fame bitch worth it?

diabiosx · Sep 20, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

Yet many competitive players post condictory stuff wanting the rules changed in their favour (which is why this waahh stop ganking thread was started):

If the people complaining about ganking don't like it, why not GvG? Or is trying to be a HA Superstar in a dead arena, being a fame bitch worth it?

Players who are not experienced shouldn't win halls because of gank, skills(ability to execute, knowledge of arena) should decide that. If the same group of players keep holding because of their skills, then people who want to kick them out out of HoH should become better in this game instead of resorting to gank to even have a chance to hold. If the final round of the MAT is a 3ways match, I am sure winning a gold cape will mean nothing and whats left of the competitiveness of GvG will be down the shithole. And I'm pretty sure GvG is also a dead arena, and a competely different arena with a completely different playstyle when compared to HA. Thats like arguing to people that whine about TA, "TA is dead why not go codex or AB." I am stressing a concern for HA not because i need more fame, I just want the arena to be a skills game, not a random gank game where you lose all your winning streaks in any 3ways match.

axe · Sep 20, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists. So, to say that both instances, and the rules and balance therein, are equivalent is worthy of embarrassment.

How are "perfectly balanced human beings", playing a game with all the same tools at our disposal any different, after all playing GW is actually Real life, as in human beings actually manipulating the video game, your logic actually states that we all have equal chances to win at GW, where in fact in real life where people are actually PHYSICALLY different and thus some are better suited for physical competition that they have an advantage. So here your example is just flawed from the beginning.

Not at a video game where you can have a working brain and working fingers and be able to compete at whatever level you are willing to work towards. Your computer and internet isnt even a determining factor because some people have some antique comps running GW with bad ping and they manage just fine.

---------

Earlier you suggest that watching a team hold for half the day is redundant and disheartening, but I found this quite the opposite when I started playing the game. When MATH was winning all the time, it proved to me that players that learn the format can consistently win, not "randomly" win which is what you seem to like, so that a low ranked team can win HoH, not because they are bad or good, but because they have a 1/3 chance to win. While I would agree if the map conditions were fair, ideally each team would be equally skilled and therefore have a 1/3, but this is not true.

The skilled team should gain an edge and win, but the problem with Ganks is beyond the fairness, and that is because currently you can have situations where your team simply CANNOT WIN, and thus for kicks can determine the result of the match.

I dont know how you cannot see that this is even lamer than a team holding for half a day. There is no benefit to the low ranked team, because in a gank situation if a low rank team wins, they actually didnt learn HOW to win, they got a little help from a gank, but now they dont get the benefit of actually playing the match which will in time give them the experience needed to figure out how actually to win.

Ganks exist in this format because of the map mechanics, its just that simple. This is the reason for the thread, its a suggestion to fix the map mechanic to prevent this, and thus increase the quality of HA. A fair map would be good for the format, not a 1v1 where blue is auto-win 75% of the time.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 20, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

Too long; read the above post.

Lag makes things unbalanced. Cheating makes things unbalanced. Teams using ventrilo makes things unbalanced [though this option is perfectly legal to do].

You never seen Michael Jordan lag and miss a dunk, or throw on a jet pack to reach the rim. He and his teammates didn't establish a secret communication using ear pieces and talk strategy amongst each other [not saying it's bad to use ventrilo for MMOs, so there's no need to chew my ass off for this statement].

Now do you now see why I said that real life balance is not equal to gaming balance?

About ganking and elimination: ranked teams don't always eliminated in 16v8. Numerous times I've seen them pull through and win it. So, if they can win even a 16v8, can you imagine what it would be like if it were only 8v8? Also, every other map is 8v8, so why render everything an 8v8 and risk letting high-ranked arrogant teams hold halls for days at a time? Why enable them to reach r15 so quickly and easily? I'd rather that they get a taste of humility from time to time than watch them dominate using the most OP'd team builds and abusive body-blocking tactics, then see them gloat and talk $h!t to everybody with their /rank spikes and elitist remarks. I'd also rather see new teams in observer mode each and every time than to see the same exact high-ranked team dominate for forever and carry out their sadistic pleasures.

axe · Sep 20, 2010, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Lag makes things unbalanced. Cheating makes things unbalanced. Teams using ventrilo makes things unbalanced [though this option is perfectly legal to do].

You never seen Michael Jordan lag and miss a dunk, or throw on a jet pack to reach the rim. He and his teammates didn't establish a secret communication using ear pieces and talk strategy amongst each other [not saying it's bad to use ventrilo for MMOs, so there's no need to chew my ass off for this statement].

Now do you now see why I said that real life balance is not equal to gaming balance?

About ganking and elimination: ranked teams don't always eliminated in 16v8. Numerous times I've seen them pull through and win it. So, if they can win even a 16v8, can you imagine what it would be like if it were only 8v8? Also, every other map is 8v8, so why render everything an 8v8 and risk letting high-ranked arrogant teams hold halls for days at a time? Why enable them to reach r15 so quickly and easily? I'd rather that they get a taste of humility from time to time than watch them dominate using the most OP'd team builds and abusive body-blocking tactics, then see them gloat and talk $h!t to everybody with their /rank spikes and elitist remarks. I'd also rather see new teams in observer mode each and every time than to see the same exact high-ranked team dominate for forever and carry out their sadistic pleasures.

I already said in my post, computer equipment and internet dont play a large enough factor, there are some of the best farmers in the game using terrible stuff and still winning. You dont need Ventrillo, lag happens to every team.

Nobody is arguing with you that 1v1 sucks and is not fair. You dont have to keep making this statement.

Nobody in this thread is telling people to gank or not, that is up to the players to decide, the point of the thread is to point out that the HoH map is flawed. 1v1 is flawed, 3-way is flawed. And again if you actually play the matches out maybe the less experienced can learn something and win the next time, and be better equipped to hold also. Those teams that are holding on long streaks did just that.

You are wanting change yourself as you said, so are the players posting here. I never heard anyone say make it easier to hold, only make it skill based.

superraptors · Sep 21, 2010, 01:53 AM // 01:53

80% of "ganks"(not actually a gank) are the result of the hoh format while the 20% just do it out of spite and jealousy or for the lols(sad).

Like axe is saying the outcome of matches is almost always decided by the 3rd team in mainly koth but also in cap points matches, if they resign they favour the current team holding, if they play on and knock off the current holding team with very little time to go then the other team which caps wins.

If its back to old school 05 06 holding it totally removes the issue that the 3rd team out of contention deciding games, unless they actually do a full gank where they just dont want you to win.

Even in 1v1 it is more fair because it gives the non holding team enough time to pressure out the holding team and capping last. In alot of situations 1v1 koth u are always so close to knocking off the team but time catches up with you, because any decent team 1v1 will be able to play defensively enough to get the 8 points and barely hold off at times.

Also if you add back dp like old days, teams wont be dieing b4 the minute to come back full energy. This is single handly the reason why the holding team in 1v1 never loses cause their monks come back with full energy or if u wait to kill them like alot of the times people try to do you have lost alot of precious dps and pressure which is essential if the non holding team wants to win.

Fluffy Kittens · Sep 21, 2010, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

About ganking and elimination: ranked teams don't always eliminated in 16v8. Numerous times I've seen them pull through and win it. So, if they can win even a 16v8, can you imagine what it would be like if it were only 8v8? Also, every other map is 8v8, so why render everything an 8v8 and risk letting high-ranked arrogant teams hold halls for days at a time? Why enable them to reach r15 so quickly and easily? I'd rather that they get a taste of humility from time to time than watch them dominate using the most OP'd team builds and abusive body-blocking tactics, then see them gloat and talk $h!t to everybody with their /rank spikes and elitist remarks. I'd also rather see new teams in observer mode each and every time than to see the same exact high-ranked team dominate for forever and carry out their sadistic pleasures.

Sir, you're obviously jealous at us high ranked people. High ranked people deserve to win because they're better and smarter than low ranked people and yes they should hold all day and get quick but they cant because there is always some jealous low rank like you sir who just ganks because he is too bad to win. If Anet would ban that kind of attitude HA would be a little better place and more enjoyable. I don't know about the rest about the rest of people posting in this topic but I really got tired of gettin ganked by r7 teams over and over again...
SOLUTION = Anet start banning!!

Edit: Shayne Hawke - Posts like this will get this thread closed fast. You have all been warned.

Missing HB · Sep 21, 2010, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

80% of "ganks"(not actually a gank) are the result of the hoh format while the 20% just do it out of spite and jealousy or for the lols(sad).

Like axe is saying the outcome of matches is almost always decided by the 3rd team in mainly koth but also in cap points matches, if they resign they favour the current team holding, if they play on and knock off the current holding team with very little time to go then the other team which caps wins.

That's the problem , because if you just think , the only fair format would be 3 team relic ( not considering gank) , and that format is maybe the most boring one ( almost 90% of time relying on pure luck on last secs ).Too many situations that you need to avoid like :
3 team koth : it's not nice to have more than 4 pts as blue from 1st cap , because team who caps right after can easily get 3 pts and make 3rd team resign ..
3 team cap pts : if all scores are the same at 1.00 , team who is currently holding center loses for sure
etc....
Btw , also i think people who're thinking it's in order that people cannot hold for hours should adapt the problem on Courtyard map ( ganking happens there a lot , maybe more than in hall ..)

diabiosx · Sep 21, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That's the problem , because if you just think , the only fair format would be 3 team relic ( not considering gank) , and that format is maybe the most boring one ( almost 90% of time relying on pure luck on last secs ).Too many situations that you need to avoid like :
3 team koth : it's not nice to have more than 4 pts as blue from 1st cap , because team who caps right after can easily get 3 pts and make 3rd team resign ..
3 team cap pts : if all scores are the same at 1.00 , team who is currently holding center loses for sure
etc....
Btw , also i think people who're thinking it's in order that people cannot hold for hours should adapt the problem on Courtyard map ( ganking happens there a lot , maybe more than in hall ..)

your point on koth is wrong. You can get 15points total there. So if blue gets 4 and say red gets 3, yellow can still get 7. And what if the 3rd team that cant win but wants blue to hold?? they will gank too. Resign doesnt always happen.

Also I think some of the guys here didnt bother reading the entire thread but anyways the OP guy suggested 1v1 HoH where there is no blue team only red vs yellow

Champen · Sep 21, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Fierce you know what he mean, if u get 7 points as blue and then the ghost dies and another team caps. The third team will often resign and u will lose =)

and it would be way too easy to hold if hoh was 1v1 even though it would be red vs yellow. So many bad teams in HA, which means a good team would just hold forever.

axe · Sep 21, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Champen

Fierce you know what he mean, if u get 7 points as blue and then the ghost dies and another team caps. The third team will often resign and u will lose =)

and it would be way too easy to hold if hoh was 1v1 even though it would be red vs yellow. So many bad teams in HA, which means a good team would just hold forever.

It doesnt even have to be Bad vs Good, its Build Wars at HoH map, Balance has a huge advantage in 1v1 and more builds would surface to take advantage of 1v1.

the 3-way map has always been a good method, but providing that there is an available option for all teams to win till the last second of the match. Certainly some builds are better equiped for HoH map, and most of the teams that plan on holding for extended periods plan accordingly.

There still is a flaw in the current system, more so than how it used to be.

Coast · Sep 21, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

just make it fair(old koth) or any other solution if anyone can think of one

diabiosx · Sep 21, 2010, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

just make it fair(old koth) or any other solution if anyone can think of one

pretty sure old holding koth only will lead to degenerate super defensive builds again

Del · Sep 21, 2010, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

pretty sure old holding koth only will lead to degenerate super defensive builds again

Yeah, defensive builds are so terrible, dumb and bad.

diabiosx · Sep 21, 2010, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Yeah, defensive builds are so terrible, dumb and bad.

lol i just dont wanna face them but i wanna run them, and the current set up allows me to do so

Del · Sep 21, 2010, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

lol i just dont wanna play in a terrible meta, but i want to play a terrible build

Fixed that for you.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 22, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

pretty sure old holding koth only will lead to degenerate super defensive builds again

That's another good reason why 1v1v1 needs to remain, on top of everything I've mentioned on this thread thus far. The point of King of the Hill is to involve more than just the 1v1 that every other map in HA has by default.